Black Spirituality Religion : let us make man in our own image - who is us ?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Destee, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Hello Family,

    The entire verse, from the King James Bible, says ...


    My question is ... who is "us?"

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'll give it a try...

    "Let us create man in our image" is used to teach a lesson. The following quote is from the Torah:

    "And God said to the ministering angels who had been created on the second day of Creation of the world, 'Let Us make man'"

    When Moses wrote the Torah and came to this verse, which is in the plural and implies - God forbid - that there is more than one Creator, he said: "Sovereign of the Universe, why do You thus provide a pretext for heretics to maintain that there is a plurality of deities?"

    "Write," God replied. "Whoever wishes to err will err...Instead let them learn from their Creator Who created all, yet when He came to create man He took counsel with the ministering angels."

    Thus God taught that one should always consult others before embarking upon major new initiatives, and He was not deterred by the possibility that some might choose to find a sacriligious implication in the verse. The implication of God's response - "Whoever wishes to err" - is that one who sincerely seeks the truth will see it; one who looks for an excuse to blaspheme will find it...
     
  3. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In Genesis 1 ; 26 Referred To As '' We '' Or '' Us ''


    When Ever You See '' We '' Or '' Us '' In The Scripture It Is Actually Referring To God As '' Eloheem . '' Thus The '' God '' Of The Bible Is A Part Of A Group Of Gods .
    Genesis 1; 26 <> RighTranslation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    And The Eloheem / Anunnaqi Said Amongst Themselves '' Now Let's Breed By Cloning People , Lulu Amelu A Homo - Sapien Of This Planet Earth Adamites Looking Just Like Ourselves , Anunnaqi , And Acting Like Ourdelves And We Will Give The Rulership Over The Fish Of The Sea , And Birds Of The Skies , And Over All Of The Non Speaking Mammals , And All Of The Creeping Thing That Greep Upon The Planet Earth ''
    Genesis 1 ; 26
    And God Said , Let Us Make Man In Our Image , After Our Likeness And Let Them Have Dominion Over The Fish Of The Sea And Over The Fowl Of The Air , And Over The Cattle . And Over All The Earth , And Over Every Creeping Thing That Creepeth Upon The Earth .
    Eloheem = Plural For God's Meaning More The One Gen 6 ; 2 ; 6; 4 ; Job 1 ; 6 ; 2 ; 1 ; Psalm 82 ; 1 ; 82 ; 6 ; John 10 ; 34 - 35 ,
    Eloheem Are The Angels Of El Or Messengers Of El . They Are A Host Of Beings That Do The Work Of El . Eloheem Are Found In The Beginning Of The Torah Genesis Chapter 1 And The Word Is Mistranslated As GOD ( Genesis 1 ; 1 ) . When It Was Translated Into English To Give The Impression That Its A Single Form , When It Is Really Plural . It's Plural Because Of The Last Two Letters '' Im '' Or '' Yod Mem '' In Aramic ( Hebrew ) . When This Is Added To The End Of A Hebrew Word , It Denotes Plurality . The Greek Theh - Os , In The New Testament Is Equivalent To The Word Eloheem . The Name '' Eloheem '' Is Used For Both Agreeable And Disagreeable Beings . If You Write Down The Word '' Eloheem '' You Will Find This Word Is Grammatically The Plural Form Of A Noun . The Lettrs '' Yod Mem , In The Hebrew Language Are Found At The End Of Ancient Syretic Words Which Have Been Grafted Into The Arabic Language . Hebrew Plurals In The Masculine , End In '' Im '' Yod Mem '' . To Add A ' S '' To This When We Introduce Such Words Into English , Is Improper . Therefore , The Word Should Be Written '' Cherubim ''' Not '' Cherubims '' . This Is To Show You That If Eloheem Can Be Defined As A Plural ( Meaning Gods And Goddesses ) ; How Can This Be Referring To El Eloh ? Within The Word Eloheem Is The Plural '' Im '' Which Mean '' They '' These Beings '' . So The Make It Clear To Everyone That The Ancient Hebrew Word Eloheem With The Last Two Letters Added Becomes Merely A Derivative Of Eloh , Which Is A Derivative From El , And If It Is A Derivative , Meaning Derived From . It Means Taken From The Original , Not The Original . Then It Can't Be The One Deity (God ) Because The One Deity Has To Be The Root Of All The Derivative , Not A Part Of The Root . Now El Can Be Part Of The Eloheem Which Is The Plural Of El ( The AngelicBeings ) Because Some Of Him Is In The Angels . He Of Course Is A Part Of The Eloheem ; Which Means They Are Also Refered To As The '' We '' Or '' Us '' .
    Deuteronomy 5 ; 7 < Right Traslation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    You Are To Hold Loyalty To No Other Eloheem
    Deuteronomy 5 ; 7 < King Jame 1611 A.D. >
    Thou Shalt Have None Other Gods Before Me ''
    The Purpose Of Explanning This Word Is So That You Can Better OverStand That The Word '' Eloheem '' Could Not Be Referring To One Entity , As These Translators Believe That At Times El Eloh And His AngelicBeings Are Referred To In The The Scriptures , Ask Them To Explain Why It Is Found In The Torah ? Of Course They Can't , Because They Aren't Versed In The Original Aramic ( Hebrew ) Language , So I'll Explain To You Why . First Lets Take The Word Allahumma
    Koran 3 ; 26 < Arabic >
    Say ; '' O Allahumma ( The Eloheem / Anunnaqi ) . You Are The Maalik ''<> Ruler '' Of Al Mulki '<> The Rulership ' You Give Al Mulks The Rulership To Whomere You Please , And You Remove Al Mulka <> The Rulership ' From Whomever You Please ; And You ( Forify ) Tu'izzu <> Make Mighty ' Who You Please , And You Tudhillu <> Humble '' Whomever You Please , By ( The Aid Of ) Yadika <> ' Your Hands , Al Khayr <. Is That Which Is Good ' Surely You Have The Qadiyr <> Power Over All Things .
    Which Is Really From The Hebrew Word Eloheem In Genesis 1 ; 26 And Found In The Torah 430 Times . The Following Are The Three Word Used For The Creator In The Torah .
    1 . El < Aramic / Hebrew >
    2 . Elowah '' '' ''
    3 , Eloheem '' ''' '' ''
    And These Number Match Up Exactly To How Many Time They Show Up In The Torah . The Most Controversial Of The Three Words Is The Word Eloheem Or Allahumma . However , Before I Discuss The Word Eloheem Or Allahuma With You , I Would Like To Give You An Explanation Of The Word El And The Word Elowah . The Name Of Allah Is The Same In Hebrew As It Is In Arabic ; As You Will See From The Following Explanation ;
    1. El ( AL ) . The Word . If Found Within The Quote Isaiah 12; 2 Is In Reference To The Creator . It Has Been Mistranslated By English Translators As '' God ''
    Isaiah 12 ; 2 < Right Translation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    Here , El Is My Salvation ; I Will Trust , And Not Be Afraid ; For The Ya Yahuwa Is My Strength And My Song Of Praise , He Also Becomes My Slavation .
    Isaiah 12 ; 2 King James 1611 A.D.
    '' Behold , God Is My Salvation ; I Will Trust , And Not Be Afraid ; For The Lord Jehovah Is My Strength And My Song ; He Also Is Become My Salvation . ''
    The Word El Or Al Is An Old Demonstrative Pronoun Slightly Pointing Out A Thing . The Following Definitions Have Been Taken From '' The Concise Staement Of The Principle Of Hebrew Grammar '' Published By Edward C . Mitchell .
    Hebrew ; El Arabic ; Al
    Used In The Sense Of The This Word Mean '' The '' It Is A
    Creator Being The Almighty Definite Article Pointing Out A
    Creator , It Literally Means Certain Thing , The Name Of Allah
    Strong , Power , Mighty One Is Made Up Of This Definite Article AL
    Or '' The '' And The Pronun Lahu Or ''
    For Him ''
    2 . Elowah ; Is Mentioned In Daniel 11 ; 38 ,
    Daniel 11 ; 38 < Right Translation In Aramic ( Hebrew )
    But In His Estate Will He Honour The Eloh Of Forces ; And A Eloh Whom His Father Knew Not Will He Honour With Gold , And Silver And With Precious Stones , And Pleasant Things .
    Daniel 11 ; 38 < King James 1611 A.D. >
    But In His Estate Shall He Honor The God Of Forces ; And A God Whom His Father Knew Not Shall He Honor With Gold And Silver , And With Precious Stones , And Pleasant Things . ''
    The Word Elowah Is Referring To Creator In The Preceding Quotes And Is Is Mistranslated As God , Elowah Is A Derivative Of The Word El . It Comes From The Ancient Form Of The Word Alahhu Or Elahh . Has Becaome Obsolete In The Hebrew Language , And It Corresponds With The Arabic Word Alaha or Ilaahi .
    Alahhu Or Elahh Alaha
    To Worship And To Adore To Worship , Swear , Adore ; From
    To Swear , From This Comes Thus You Get The Name Of The
    Eloah , Which Corresponds Creator Al Khaaliq .
    Of The Creator .
    Elahha Or Alahhu In Aramic For Alaha , Closely Resembles The Arabic Word Alaha . This Is Further Proof That Hebrew , Aramic And Arabic Are The Same Language . From The Ancient Chaldean Language , Both El . And Elowah Are In The Singular Tense .
    These Are The Same Words ! Just Look Close And You Will See They Are The Same . < Look At The Diagram Below >
    Aramic Arabic
    Eloahum ( Eloheem ) Allahumma
    Eloheem Is The Plural Of The Word Allahuma Is The Plural For The
    Alahhu , A Definition Given From Name Allah . The Plural
    A Hebrew Dictionary Entitled A Concise Hum Is A Representation
    Statement Of The Principle Of Hebrew Of The Creator And His Angelic
    Grammar '' By Edward G . Mitchell States Bening Also '' Allah And All His
    Eloahim Is A Plural Tense Of The Word Attributes '' The Attributes Called
    Goddesses . ( Psalms 71;17 ; 72 ; 1 ) The Koran 3 ;26 , 10 ; 10 , 39 , 46
    What They Are Not Telling You Is That This Word Eloahim Is Not In Quraish Or Modern Arabic Terms Or Even In The Terms Of The Modern Classical Arabic Used In The Koran . But It Is Another One Of Those Word That Has Been Grafted From . The Hebrew Term Eloahim . Which Came From The Syretic Term Brought From The Phoenicians , And The Babylonians. Originally From Cuneiform . It Is A Fact That Allahumma ( Or Eloahim ) Is Grammatically A Plural Word . It Is Made From Two Words , Allah And Hum Which Is The Arabic Suffix For '' Them '' Just Like The Jews And The Muslims , Christian Etc , Find The Word '' We '' Used In The Scriptures ( The Torah And The Koran Etc . ) ( And Still Say It Is A Singular Word )
    Now Ask Them How Can '' We '' Be < Singular > ? If God Would Have Wanted It To Be < Singular > He Would Have Said '' I '
     
  4. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    GOD/YHVH was speaking to what we know as Sons of GOD, HIS first creation that later became the order of Satan. The phrase,” Sons of GOD” is very important because it was them and their actions that caused the first death of earth (flood). Many newer translated Bibles are trying to phase the saying out and re-translate it as, “Angels or Divine Beings”, but the original Hebrew script clearly says, “Sons of GOD”.

    I suspect it is slowly being phased out because servants of Jesus have recognized what the Sons of GOD are and what they truly represent in the Old Testaments. And when you come to the New Testaments the only thing that is suggested as being spoken by GOD is a reference claiming Jesus is HIS Son. For people that study the Old Testaments and have a clear understanding as to, “Sons of GOD”, it is a warning. Sons of GOD are the ones sent to test or prove your love for GOD.

    This passage shows that the Sons of GOD existed before GOD created our environment, thus they existed before us humans.


    Job:38:7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


    That passage is describing a time when GOD was creating the stars while creating our environment. And as you can see the Sons of GOD were there and in existence. But they did not have anything to do with creation, they only witnessed and marveled at it.
     
  5. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Thank you all for sharing. I have asked this question a time or two before, in voice chat, and one Brother's answer, was the best i've ever heard. He said that the "us" is God and his Goddess. That's very moving, wouldn't you agree?!

    I anticipate a variety of responses regarding who "us" is, as evidenced by the responses already given ... but this is the beautiful thing about it all Family ... that we do think differently, yet are still able to come together peacefully. This is the blessing.

    I hope others will share what they think.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  6. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hello Destee,

    A possible answer is provided in this link:
    http://www.northernway.org/fathergod.html



    Also of interest is the KJV's Exodus 22:28

    Exodus 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

    Blackbird
     
  7. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hello all,

    I can not let this go. Something is inkling in my soul to continue, express what I feel in my heart. First some background: Before I graduated from college, I began a spiritual quest. (Some have heard this story before) I left Christianity and embarked on learning and studying other religious traditions. My first appeal was to Al' Islaam, but something within didn't resonate with me. Next, I went to ancient Hebrew beliefs. I thought I had found my path. I started a very basic study of the language, culture and history of the Hebrews. From there, my natural progression was to the ATRs because I firmly believed the source of Hebrew belief was contained within them. This was encouraged by my chosen major: Anthropology.

    I'm not saying I have the answers or my intepretation is correct, but this is my view.

    At some point in human history, circa 2000 B.C.E., archaic Aryan people migrated south from their Eurasian steppe homeland where they encountered sedentary Africoid people in Mesopotamia. First, they arrived peacefully, but as the historical record accounts many times, they eventually subdued these folks, including those of Sumerian extraction, and set up feudal caste systems. Hence the Bible asserts Abram came from Ur of Chaldees. (Gen. 11:31) Abram and entourage emigrated westward following the flow of the Eurasian invasion. They stopped at places in ancient Anatolia and Syria, like Mari and Haran. (Gen. 12) However, they continued their travel to the borders of Egypt, but were ran out of Egypt. (Gen. 12:20) Eventually, these mixed people, half-Aryan and half-Africoid, settled in Canaan. In Canaan, like most new settlers, they were influenced by the autochthonous culture there. A level of symbosis resulted. (Gen. 14)

    Nothing mystical here, but the basic migration of any group of people due to war, over-crowding or famine. History is filled with similar stories and recounts.

    I believe it was in Canaan, where the Hebrew state religion was formulated. The story of Noah is basically the Gilgamesh Epics (Sumerian origin). So I believe there was an intermarriage of Sumerian and Canaanite-Kemetic beliefs. The term used to describe "God" in Gen. 14:19-22 was El' Elyon - most high God. This is also a prasie name for the Canaanite deity Ba'al. It is only right for Melchizedek to be the priest-king of a Canaanite city; most city-states, at that time, that had monarchies were ruled by a king, who was a priest. The term Yahweh is thought to have resemblance to the Canaanite deity Yw or Yawu. Other titles for the Hebrew God which were originally names for Canaanite deities: El Shaddai (god of the Mountains), El Olam (originally Canaanite god of Beershaba), El Berith (god of Shechem) and El Roi. I believe these many gods were eventually sycrentize into one overall god of Israel and afterwards, the names of them became appellations for the Hebrew God.

    Thus, these entities, being separate at one time, could say in Gen. 22 : "And the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

    To be continued....

    Blackbird
     
  8. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I also started this route of study; I find it very interesting. But on this we can’t legitimately say that the Noah story is a derivative of Gilgamesh. It is true they are very similar but this would be commonplace if we look at the situation.

    We have Noah who has three sons and their families. Each son goes in his own direction to repopulate the earth. All of those sons and their families and descendents will produce their own version of the flood story. And as the families got larger and larger and languages changed the stories would evolve more and more from each other. Until we eventually have what we have today, a flood story in the Bible and a flood story of Gilgamesh. What we are looking at is the same story but each one evolved from two deferent families, but they both have the same origin. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find more versions of the grate flood seeing that it was the origins of three different people that repopulated the whole earth. So it is not legitimate to assume one is a copy of the other. It would be more in harmony with GOD to say the stories evolved through history in parallel.
     
  9. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Answer

    The "us" is Jesus and God and here is the proof.

    Gen. 1
    26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

    Colossians 1
    The Supremacy of Christ

    15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
    21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

    These are not my words or my opinion but the word of God himself.
     
  10. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It was indeed the Sons of GOD that HE was speaking to in the “us”. But they had nothing to do with creation. And after the creation of humans they did something that caused them to become the Nefilim (fallen).


    Job:38:7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


    That passage is where GOD is boasting about the days when HE creating our environment and, as you can see, the Sons of GOD where there. But they didn’t have anything to do with creation, they only witnessed and marveled at it. This is what the Sons of GOD committed that caused them to become the Fallen.


    Gen:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


    They forcibly took and wanted human women. From this action they became labeled as the order of Satan, with the first born or first created being Satan.
    Paul is NOT GOD.
     
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