Black People : Legalizing Illegal Immigrants..the Republican Plan to replace the Black Community?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by panafrica, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brothers and Sisters I want to call attention to a Bush proposal to grant temporary working rights to the country's estimated 10 million illegal immigrants (the majority of whom are from Mexico). Under this plan, immigrant workers can apply for 3 year work grants, under which they can stay in the country without the fear of deportation. This plan also gives immigrants the right to travel to & from the country. While immigrants are not automatically granted green cards, the process will become much easier. They can also continue to re-apply for subsequent 3 year work grants, if they do not have a green card when their work grant expires. In other words as long as an immigrant has a job, they can stay in the country forever!

    This plan which Bush intends to introduce to the nation today (Jan 7, 2004), has HUGE ramifications for Black people. As everyone knows the economy is already in a depression (in my mind we passed the recession phase a year ago). Thousands of people are getting layed off monthly, many of whom are black, and many of whom struggle to find new employment. In a time where literally thousands of US citizens (both white and black) are struggling to find employment, it is sick to grant employment rights to illegal workers. Although this negatively effects many Americans it mostly affects us. For the last 20 years Latinos have taken jobs which used to historically go to Black people. Janitorial services and meatpacking (while menial work) used to be dominated by a unionized well paid black labor force. Now however they are dominated by a non-unionized immigrant labor force, who I might add have decreased the pay for these positions. For those of you who live in an area that is heavily populated by Latinos I'm sure you will have noticed that jobs which once went to Blacks (like fast food, retail, car sales), and now going to Latinos. I'm sure you that you have noticed that low income loans and housing programs that once focused on Blacks are mostly going to Latinos. All of this would be a positive if it meant that Blacks as a community are moving up in society, but that isn't the case.

    What I see happening is a Bush/Republican agenda to further increase their power by catering to potential Latino voters, and at the same time to further castrate Black America. I've always felt that the number of blacks who are imprisoned served two purposes: When people are jailed they lose their suffrage (voting) right, and in many cases their employment rights. By jailing millions of Blacks (men & women), the political & economic power of the Black Community is severly dimenished. Legalizing millions of illegals furthers this trend. We all know that the last presidential election was decided by only 400 votes. Latinos (Cubans) in Florida are credited with being the deciding factor in the 2000 election. Many of whom switched from Democratic from Republican over the Elian Gonzalez issue. With Latinos surpassing the Black population (many of whom don't vote), and if Republicans win over the Latino vote, they will have all the votes they will need to say in office for years to come. If a presidential administration (or state/county) does not need the black vote to stay in office, then it does not need to address our needs. If a political administration does not need the black vote to obtain an office.....then it WILL NOT address our needs. We are witnessing a covert attempt to remove Black America as a relevant sector of the US!

    While I have mainly focused on Republicans, in truth Democrats can very well do the same thing. This is further proof that it is almost impossible for Black people as group to succeed.in American society. Our fate is not in our hands, as long as we continue to comply with the standard political/economic structure. It is also further proof of the need for black employers, and ultimately a United States of Africa (see the PanAfrican forum). As long as we continue to rely on whites for employment we will continue to be subject to their whim (passed over for who they see fit). In the mean time however, we need to mobilize and vote in mass this coming election. We need to express our concerns to politicians in our community, and replace any (including sellout blacks) who aren't working for us. We need to start investing in our own communities. But most importantly we need to Wake UP!
     
  2. Flow Like That

    Flow Like That Member MEMBER

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    Good post Panafrica.

    In 1991 I attended a presentation by Dr. Claud Anderson. What's Ironic is the fact Dr. Anderson predicted exactly what you have so eloquently stated in your thread - that illegal immigration and lobbyist for illegal immigration within the government would marginalize the Black economic/voting structure to the point of irrelevancy. Sadly though truth is coming to light. In a nutshell, Balck people wont be needed to keep this country going. This one red flag should be our wake up call to many issues that we face.

    As Black people we seriously need to design a plan of action for our survial...no more business as usual...no more foolish efforts to assimilate with white people. A bitter pill we may need to take and drastic changes made to see results. Discussing Dr. Andersons Powernomics is something I would like to do one day on this forum.

    I for one have my own method of contribution to our people. Currently I work in real estate - a Black owned company I might add. My goal is to get Blacks into homes. If they don't qualify I try to get them qualified. Although I will sell a home to anyone (money is money) my personal disposition is to target Black people. I truly believe Black home ownership is the first step to economic independence. I have witnessed countless times Asians who work in real estate go that extra mile to sell to other Asians...which many are recent immigrants owning homes. They use a concerted effort to assist one another. If Black people can adopt a similar philosophy in their own professions this could be a small but important step to unify the Black power structure.

    When I first started out in real estate I worked for Mr. Charlie. Blatant discrimination is practiced by white owned mortgage and real estate companies when it comes to minority home ownership and re-financing.

    An important step for our survival is to build and support more Black owned businesses. If Blacks can't get results from white owned companies then we must build our own institutions to satisfy our needs.
     
  3. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Excellent thread topic

    I can recall when the Berlin Wall was destroyed, there was another prediction that America would experience an influx of Europeans with high tech skills thereby threatening job opportunities for American workers competing for the same jobs. Because American industries haven't done a good job over the years to develop the skills of their employees helping to keep them competitive, as we moved from the industrial age to the information age, demand for low-tech skills has drastically decreased as demand for high-tech skills have sky-rocketed. Over 20 years ago I read a book titled, "Workforce 2000: Work and Workers for the 21st Century" where this was accurately predicted based on studies of economic and industry trends back in the 1980s.

    So this Bush/Republican agenda is nothing new. The plan has been in place for many years and has never been a secret. The problem is that Blacks have had so much on their plates to deal with, it's extremely difficult to juggle so many of our issues. Maybe our focus has been more on arguing for equality under the law and assimilating after integration that we failed to see the subtle and not so subtle changes taking place around us every day that would make the gap even wider.

    What this new proposal is, is an squeeze play. On one end, immigrants from less developed countries coming to America desperately seeking jobs--any kind of job--will have just as much of an impact on Blacks in their struggle for employment as will the high tech engineers running from political/economic oppression. Are Blacks caught in the middle of this scenario? Sure we are, so what else is new?

    In order for a country like America to work it's plan to sit at the top of world domination and have ultimate power, it needs worker bees. The vast majority of those producing manual labor--people doing mindless and mundane tasks day in and day out paying wages that barely help them to survive--will be Blacks and Latinos. The high end of the spectrum will be those whose skills can be pimped to the highest degree--courted by high wages and other shiny trinkets, in exchange for their brains--by the government and industries to help the country maintain its military and economic power.

    I think we're awake already and I think we see the handwriting on the wall. We're not stupid--we know very well what's happening. But like it's been written so many times in a number of threads, something is wrong that keeps us paralyzed such that we don't come together to do anything about it. Individually, many of us have tried and continue to try. Some of us have gotten tired of waiting for the mass movement to take place and have decided to make it the best way we can. Thus you see a sprinkling of us at the "top" of the economic scale. We keep saying what we should do to support each other, yet we still aren't doing it. You think if we keep saying it enough, it will eventually sink in?

    Peace! :spinstar:
     
  4. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Vote and Stop

    we have no choice but to get out and vote; with the mindset that whomever we vote for probably will not really do anything to help us; so all we can do is vote on issues that in someway are seemingly fair-minded...
    As devastating as the "writing on the wall has been" for a very long time, mind you; and as long as we have discussed this issue amongst others; it is time that we either sink or swim collectively.... or die apart.

    Flow Like That, makes a great point when she illustrates the tribal tactics of Asians; those same tactics transcend into every other ethnicity, and race in America, excepet for US. What is ironic, is that EVERYBODY knows that this is how communities work with each other...they understand that helping each other is helping themselves.... and they know how to keep "what is happening in their houses, in their houses." We are the only ones who prefer ACCEPTANCE over EMPOWERMENT...seemingly. But, on the other hand, I have found many Black Americans who say that they want US to unite and learn to help each other, and stop being susceptible to divionary tactics perpetrated on US by White America; but find some of US- people they don't want to deal with (Two-faced Blacks, Self-hating Blacks, etc...) But, then one could argue that Whites and Others disrespect US, mistreat US, use US and abuse US--- yet, we still patronize them... Funny thing is that Whites and others do not patronize US, and we still KISSING ***, AND HOPING FOR LOVE. I don't know, maybe it is that hatred of US sting moreso, when we do those things to each other, and makes it easier to cut ties with such a person?

    For Black Americans, jobs that WE do not create for OURSELVES are tenuous at best, as someone stated, WE are at the whim of people who historically have not and will not have OUR best interest at heart. WE are creators and thinkers. WE create for everyone BUT ourselves. WE still have a collective bargaining chip. WE have to think and improve OUR skills, and stop telling OUR enemies what we are doing or are trying to do.

    Just as we need to stop patronizing work places that do not hire US; especially if they are Black American entities (what, didn't know that WE possessed that kind of Negro?); WE have to stop patronizing whole industries... EX: if Black women would use just their dollars, say on fashion, of which WE spend on average, $1,000/ month, according to published reports-- and stop and save it; or if you gotta buy, direct those funds to Black American designers, who in turn support US... that can make a huge dent, and since actions do speak louder than words... all will be said; then take that movement and channel it to every thing... You want to protest illegal immigration, stop buying--- and not one word will have to be said. What is ironic about this is that me being Black ; this is somehow going to translate into being wrong--- yet, it is the very thing that White America; who is the least affected by the situation, is doing; on Jan. 12 they have geared up to stop buying anything.... some orgs. say Jan. 9-12 don't buy anything, or pay any bills. Year before last, they started requiring contractors who would build their homes to disclose the ethnicity of their labor force.... and no one said that it was wrong.

    Our hypocrisy and self-sabotage is Our biggest problem.
     
  5. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    First of all I'd like to acknowledge and express gratitude towards Flow Like That for the work that she does (helping to increase black homeownership). This is sorely needed in our community, and is a source of untold power. I'd also like to hear more about what Dr. Claud Anderson had to say about this issue back in 1991. The immigration issue (I want to go on record as saying that I only have a problem with illegal immigration, not immigration in general) was not even a blip on my radar back then.....actually I was still in high school at that time. However that is an important time, because it was around that period when the current influx of South American immigrants started to flood the country.

    I remember that I first started to notice the amount of Latinos coming into the country around 1996/97. I grew up in Illinois (Maywood & Bolingbrook), and although there pockets of Latinos in the neighborhood, no large community existed. I left Illinois in 1994 to attend college in Maryland, and when I came back to visit family I noticed that there were a lot of Latinos in the neighborhood. I didn't necessarily notice them in houses, but I went to Burger King and the entire store was Latino. I went to Taco Bell and McDonald's and noticed the same thing. The same with K-mart and Wal-mart...jobs that used to belong to Blacks now were occupied with Latinos. I remember thinking "wow, how can a neighborhood change so rapidly"? While I wondered with curiosity what brought about the change in my old neighborhood, I really got a lesson in the scale of illegal immigration, and the impact it has on Black workers when I moved to NYC in 2000.

    In NYC Latinos were the dominant minority everywhere I went (statistically they are the largest minority in New York, New Jersey, Texas, and they practically own California). Many could not speak English, or did so very poorly. But they dominated the local economy. They either owned businesses (where they didn't, and don't hire blacks I might add) or were the 1st hired at the major corporations. For a Black person to get a decent job in many areas of NYC, they had better be able to speak Spanish, or they would have a hard time. This was especially true for Education, which I had recently got my degree in. People who were spanish speaking got hired almost immediately, while those who weren't had to fight fierce competition to get a job. In education I got a glimpse of just how many of these kids were illegals (and subsequently how many of their parents were illegal). I got further indications after speaking with people in the community and watching Spanish Television Networks like Telemundo (which regularly talks about how to get green cards/work permission, how to stay in the country illegally, how to get housing, etc). Most importantly though I observed how Blacks were struggling while the Latino community in NYC were prospering in comparison. Many of these Blacks were either losing their jobs to illegal workers, or being turned away from industries because the average wage had been driven below livable wages, due to a steady supply of illegal labor. It was after observing this that I knew that something has to be done to protect the interest of the Black Community.

    I said earlier that I didn't have a problem with legal immigrants, I'd also like to say I don't have a problem with Latinos in general. However they do not have the same agenda as us, and it is a mistake to assume they do. This mistake was made by our so-called leaders in the 1980s & 90s, who sought Latino membership in the NAACP and other Civil Right organizations. The theory behind this recruitment was that since Latinos aren't white, and are discriminated against then they are on our side. This was a foolish assumption because the biggest concerns of Latinos are the legalization of illegals and bi-lingual education programs (neither of which are important to the black community). The few goals that we have in comon: obtaining housing and employment, we are in direct competition for. In short. Latinos joined these organizations, reaped the benefits of our efforts on their behalf, then went in there own direction. While we are left wondering what happened.
     
  6. Epicurean

    Epicurean Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And let us not forget that these illegals will bankrupt the social security system. Once they get legal status you can bet that they will go back and try to get credit for all those worked years so they can collect social security payments. I get the sense that a certain class of people in this country want to create a third world class of people who will work for much lower wages, accept abuse, spend all their money shopping at Wallmart and K-Mart and flood our schools to impede learning by real Americans. I have looked carefully at photographs of President Bush's wife, Laura. She looks part Mexican to me. Mexicans out here have already flooded our schools, banckrupted our medical facilities and made traveling on our freeways a nightmare. I have already been hit by two illegals. One was an African from Nigeria with no insurance and the other was an illegal Mexican with no insurance. I was lucky. They both voluntarily paid for the damages to my cars. The politicians are going to let this happen because they have theirs. They do not care about a middle class in this country. Remember the middle class? Right now, they are under attack. The ones now fighting for their middle class survival are the grocery workers. The CEO's of Ralph's, Albertsons and Von's want to break the union so they can hire cheap Mexican labor. The Ralph's I shop use to have a balanced diversity of workers. Now, they are mostly Mexicans and most of them have an attitude. We need to get out and vote out all those politicians who are allowing this to happen. We need to make Bush a ONE TERM president, like his father.
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Very true Epicurean, to everything you said. I'm sure by now most people have either read over the internet and newspapers, or have seen Bush's speech. If you haven't here is a link:

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...on_go_pr_wh/bush_immigration&cid=544&ncid=716

    Many Latino Civil Rights groups actually have the nerve to be angry at this proposal because it doesn't grant full and immediate citizenship to illegals (which is what they are fighting for). Now the biggest arguement for legalizing illegals is that they will take jobs that Americans don't want. Again there are an estimated 8-10 million illegals in this country. Does Bush seriously expect people to believe there are 10 million jobs that people don't want? The percentage of Latinos went from around 8% in 1990 to over 13% in 2003! This is an not a natural increase, but one obviously brought on by a mass immigration (mostly illegal). There is obviously a covert plan in operation here (other nations have been known to bring in a large number of foreign workers to create a buffer class).

    For now all we can do is vote, and express our displeasure through our vote. But ultimately this is another example of the impotence of the Black community when we try to play along with the existing white social-economic-political structure. It also again shows the need for us to build our own. Africans in the Diaspora are in a unique position in history, we are the only people who have been enslaved that try to live with our enslavers and oppressors. Hebrews were also enslaved in Egypt. However when they gained their freedom they went to another land. They did not remain in Egypt and ask for Affirmative Action and Civil Rights. They did not ask for Education in their schools and Fair Housing. No the went to a new area where they had a change for a new beginning to determine their fate. The same is true for Jews in Europe & Russia. Jews were discriminated against, and in some cases exterminated. As a result, they left and went to a new land, where they would not continue to be mistreated (Poland for example had over 30 million Jews before WWII, and now has only 40,000). However Africans in the Diaspora (particularly in America) continue to think that we can live peacefully and equally among our former enslavers & oppressors. Our history since the end of slavery: Apartheid (let's call Jim Crow what it really was), economic & political discrimination, mass imprisionment, continual poverty, etc....suggest otherwise.
     
  8. Epicurean

    Epicurean Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    PanAfrica,
    You express my sentiments. And how "coincidental" that many of our Brothers and Sisters have been tagged with crimes that make them felons and thus unable to vote. We had a period here where We were being arrested left and right, charged with felonies and put in prison. Now, all of a sudden, here come the illegals Bush wants to turn into citizens. We not only need to vote to show our displeasure. We need to keep ourselves out of the criminal "just us" system. We also need more Black lawyers who specialize in criminal law and who are accessable to those who are not as wealthy as OJ. And I am not talking about overworked public defenders who are purposely buried with caseloads that prevent them from performing like the attorneys OJ employed. Bush's excuses are just a pretext for vitiating the Black vote. And he seems to be willing to even push this program over the objections of his own party members. I beleive that he is taking his own Republican party supporters for granted because he knows that there is no one else in the Republican party that can successfully run against him. And he will run rampant if he gets a second term. He will act like Gray Davis, driving us into bankruptcy, raiseing fees and taxes and pandering to the Mexicans for the next republican candidate.
     
  9. Epicurean

    Epicurean Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well, KRYizar,
    I guess I better brush up on my Spainish. I wonder if I will be better off if I claim to be a Black Mexican. :laugh:
     
  10. deepy

    deepy going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    important to be counted

    panafrica...thanks for putting the information out here...my friends and i have been chatting about it and sending all kinds of missives to each other re the importance of voting in the coming elections.
    It is one thing to know , to have the information...but it becomes so imperative that we act. To understand that collectively we still have some power/influence.
    Keep sending the information and hopefully we will begin to act on it..
     
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