Black Spirituality Religion : KNOW THY SELF


Well-Known Member
May 28, 2005
Self Realisation?

ibrahim said:
A person who knows not
and know not that they know
is foolish.......Disregard them.

A person who knows not
and knows that they know not
is simple......Teach them

A person who knows not
and believes that they know
is dangerous......Avoid them

A perosn who knows
and knows not that they know
Is asleep.......Awaken them

A person who knows
and knows that they know
Is wise......follow them.

All of these persons reside in you
Know thy self
And to "maat" be true

Self Realisation?

The word Atma (Self) is common in both Jeevatma (Soul) and Paramatma (Lord). The word collector is common in both District collector and Bill collector. You are asking for the address of collector. The address of bill collector is different from district collector. The purpose to meet the collector must also be specified, which indicates whether you have to meet the district collector or bill collector. Therefore, the self-realisation, which means reaching either Jeevatma or Paramatma must be clarified. If you reach Jeevatma, there is one type of benefit and if you reach Paramatma, there is another type of benefit. Benefit means to attain something, which you do not possess. Loss means to lose what you have. Some people treat that not to have a loss is also a benefit. But, benefit means really to attain something, which you do not have. If you attain Jeevatma you will not have the loss. You have attained what you have. In such case, you have become the Jeevatma which is pure awareness (Suddha chaitanyam). You have withdrawn the ‘I’ from the physical body. Then you have withdrawn the ‘I’ from the three qualities. Finally, you have fixed your ‘I’ to the pure awareness. By doing so, you have attained the peace which is the inherent quality of the pure awareness. You have crossed all the problems. You have lost the peace in these problems. Now you have attained what you have already in yourself. By this, you have arrested the loss and you can consider this as profit. Ofcourse, this attainment is intermediate state. This is only half of the journey. The rest half is to attain and please the Lord. The peace will be useful in the next half of the journey.

The word Atma has four meanings. 1) The Human body made of five elements 2) the three qualities 3) the pure awareness 4) the Lord (Paramatma or Parabrahma). All these four meanings can be applied in only one place i.e., the human incarnation of the Lord. There is no second alternative for this case, because in the case of Lord Krishna, the external human body, the three qualities, the pure awareness and the Parabrahman exist. In an ordinary human being the first three items exist and the fourth item is absent. Therefore, if you take an ordinary human being as meaning for the word Atma, the second alternative i.e., Paramatma (i.e., Parabrahman) exists and therefore the doubt comes whether the word Atma means humanbeing or Paramatma. In the case of human incarnation this doubt does not exist because all the four items are together. Therefore, the best and doubtless meaning of the word Atman is only the human incarnation of Lord. The word Atma means pervading (Atati iti). Since the human body pervades some space, it is Atma. Since the three qualities pervade all over the pure awareness as the waves pervade the water, the three qualities are also Atma. Since the pure awareness pervades all over the body, it is also Atma. Since the Lord pervades all over the world as substratum, He is also Atma. The human incarnation is perceived by the naked eyes and therefore satisfies, pratyaksha pramaana (Deduction by Perception) of even Charvaka. The theory of Charvaka was mentioned as one of the six theories by Vidyaranya in his book called ‘Shat darsana saara sangrahah’. All the pramaanaas are based on pratyaksha only. Even in the inference (Anumaana pramaana), the fire is inferred by see ing the smoke.

Unless you have seen the relationship between smoke and fire, how can you infer the fire? Even in the upamaana pramaana (simily) an animal in the forest is said to be similar to cow. Unless you have seen the cow, how can you recognise that animal? The fourth pramaana is ‘Sabda’ (statement of a reliable person). In this pramaana you believe the existence of the Kasi City when a reliable person says about it. In this pramaana also unless he has seen the Kasi City how can he talk about it? Therefore, the atheist and scientist, who follow the theory of Charvaka must also be convinced with the human incarnation of Lord. Such human incarnation is the Satguru, who can give you the right knowledge, which is the true meaning of Veda. By such knowledge only, the devotion (Bhakti yoga) and the service (Karma yoga) result. Knowledge is like a seed. It will give tree (Bhakti) and then the fruit (Karma or Seva) of the Lord. Without seed we cannot get the fruit. But, if the seed is not producing the tree and then the fruit, there is no use of such seed. Therefore, the knowledge must lead into practice and without practice there is no use of knowledge. Shankara said that human birth is very rare. Even if the human birth is achieved, the desire for salvation is still rare in the human beings. Even if such spiritual desire exists, catching Satguru is very very rare (Maha purusha samsrayah). Satguru is none but Narayana, who came down in the form of Nara (human being). Thus catching and pleasing the Satguru is the end of Saadhana (spiritual effort).

The goal is attained here itself (Jeevanmukti). Veda says that the goal comes down before your eyes and is not in any other world (Yatsakshaat aparokshaat Brahma). Gita also says the same (Manusheem tanumasritaam). Datta is any human incarnation of the Lord that comes down as Satguru to preach the true knowledge of scriptures. Datta means the Lord donated to this world in human form. Datta does not mean a particular form of deity like Indra, Agni etc. The human being consists of three components only i.e., the human body (Sthula sareera), the three qualities (Sukshma sareera) and the pure awareness (Karana sareera). An ignorant human being leaves the human incarnation by seeing the external human body which shows all the rules of nature like birth, death, hunger etc. Since, Krishna is eating butter due to hunger, the ignorant person thinks Krishna as an ordinary human being. Majority of the people are ignorant due to illusion of Sthula sareera (human body).These people fail in the very first test itself. Some wise people think that the Lord is wearing external human body. Even the cloth of the king, can be cut by a blade. So, they think that the Lord is not the human body, but the soul inside, which is a mass of all good qualities only (Sattvam) as in the case of Rama. They think that the Lord is Sattvam quality only, which is Vishnu. This is represented by the single face of Datta (Eka mukha Datta). These people have committed two mistakes. 1) They think that the Lord is a quality and do not know that He is beyond any quality (Gunaateeta). Infact, He is the possessor of all these qualities and not any quality as said in Gita (Nachaham theshu). 2) They think that He is only Sattvam quality (Vishnu) and not Rajas (Brahma) and Tamas (Shiva). The three faces of Datta indicate that He is not in any single face (quality), but He is the possessor of all the three faces.

Therefore, to remove the ignorance of these people, He exhibits the other two faces (Rajas & Tamas). Krishna stole the butter (Tamas) and Narasimha was very angry (Rajas). Datta came out of the lake embracing and kissing a naked lady (intensive Tamas) and all the sages who were waiting on the bank of lake ran away because they were expecting him to be only Vishnu having the good (Sattvam) quality. This is significance of the three faces of Datta. Foolish people think that Datta is a form moving with three heads as a peculiar specimen. Thus, even wise people fail in the second test because they think that the Lord is the quality and that too Sattvam quality only. The three qualities are the three coloured shirts. When you think that He is only white shirt (Sattvam), He will appear in red (Rajas) and black (Tamas) shirts. This proves that He is not any shirt and also that He is not in any shirt. Datta is not Sukshma sareera (the three qualities) or Jeeva.

In the third test, the advaita scholars cross the human body and the three qualities. They settle in the standstill pure awareness (Nirguna chaitanyam) which is again the Kaarana sareera only and not the Lord. They think that the Lord is pure awareness without the three qualities like standstill water without waves. The advaita scholars try to touch the Lord through their self-effort i.e., self-analysis. By this, they can touch the pure awareness, which is the Maya i.e., the mind of the Lord. Maya is also pure awareness and is the power of the Lord. This Maya is like the ocean. The tidal waves in this ocean, which are the apparent modifications of Maya (Vivarta of Shankara) are the three qualities (Gunaas or bhaavaas) and these three qualities are called Brahma (Rajas), Vishnu (Sattvam) & Shiva (Tamas). A part of this Maya is modified into the inert five elements by which planets, hills, rivers etc. form. It is real modification (Parinaama of Ramanuja) because the awareness is converted into inert matter. A part of this Maya entered some inert forms, which have become the various living beings. In every living being a little quantity of Maya is present which has small vibrations.

These vibrations are the three qualities in the soul. Therefore a soul is a drop of Maya (pure awareness) with small vibrations. The ocean of Maya with its tidal waves is surrounded by this Cosmos made of five elements (Brahmanda). Similarly, the soul is also surrounded by a small body made of five elements (Pindanda). The advaita scholars cross the body and the vibrations and finally settle in the standstill drop of Maya. When this drop is quantitatively extended, it becomes infinite Standstill Ocean without waves. Thus, one can imagine a standstill ocean through his standstill drop. But, he cannot touch the substratum of the ocean even by imagination. He is a part and parcel of the dream, which consists of living and non-living beings. The mind of the dreamer (awareness) with the qualities or ideas created the dream. A part of the mind is modified into the inert city. Another part of mind entered several inert forms as drops making those forms as living beings. The waves of the mind have been reduced to vibrations of the drops in the living beings. A human being can touch, at the maximum, the mind only, which is the root cause of the dream and the mind is not the dreamer. The advaita philosopher unable to know this secret mistakes the mind (Maya) itself as the dreamer (Mayin or Lord). Since, he thinks that the ocean of awareness is the Lord, he assumes that he himself is the Lord forgetting the quantitative difference between the drop and ocean even in his false assumption.

He removes the quantitative difference between the drop and ocean by saying that the space is not true. Then the tiny soul becomes the infinite Brahman. Very Good! Then why this tiny soul which has become Brahman is not ruling the entire world and become Eeswara? He committed two mistakes. 1) Assuming that awareness is the very nature of the Lord, the quantitative difference between the Lord and soul is forgotten. 2) The Lord is not the awareness because the Lord is beyond imagination. Apart from these two mistakes, he is forgetting the existence of the super power in the Lord and absence of the same super power in himself. Krishna lifted the mountain on his finger and he told the excellent Bhagavat Gita. The advaita philosopher is unable to do these two things and claims himself to be the Lord. He is seeing only the similarity in the pure awareness. But, he is neglecting the difference in the power. Such attitude comes only due to ambition to become the Lord and egoism of self and jealousy on Krishna. He says that this world is a dream.

But, this world is a dream for the dreamer who is the Lord. He is only a part of parcel of the dream. Even Shankara swallowed the molten lead and asked his disciples to swallow the same. Shankara declared that He alone is Shiva (Shivah kevaloham) and not the disciples. If you are ignorant, you will fail in the first test. If you are a wise person, you will fail in the second test. If you are an advaita scholar, you will fail in the third test. If you have passed all the three tests and if you have recognised Satguru, you are having Atma Jnana. If you have reached the Satguru, you have attained Atman.

If you have become servant and pleased Satguru i.e., Kaivalya in which you are always associated and protected by the Lord in this world as well as in the upper world i.e., Brahma Loka. The Lord is the ruler of your self also and is called as Atmeswara in Veda (Atmeswaram sasvatam).

At Thy Lotus Feet

Anil Antony


Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2004
Self Employed
The "Only" reason we were born in any "Time"*

kaguvi said:
How can we learn to know what we do not know? Either we already know ourselves, in which case we don't need to look, or we don't know what we're looking for, in which case we wouldn't recognize it if we found it.


We have "lost" our "way"...including such un-exceptable things as...language...culture...knowledge of our ancient ancestors acumilated knowledge of our past, present and future...the knowledge and wisdom of the millions of years of our existance on this planet as (Kemetic) African people "The" origenal people of the earth who were also given and blessed with the (Medu Neter) word of G-d and the ability to speak to "The" Creator!!
We (some) today confuse our present (crazied-insane) state of distorted, twisted, anti-culture of "White-Superimacy" tought to us by the slavers of our black african ancestors including our selves to be even remotely true but in fact is only a crowd control system to rule over the masses including all people but (You) Africans in particular..."There is No compairison to what we have been forced fead and the Medu Neter what so ever". As long as any one thinks that they are going to find something in this Racist anti-culture that is going to be good for (You) Africans or Black People...they will for ever be "Lost"!! How meny more hundreds of years is it going to take for us to "Wake-UP" and truly "Know Thy Self"?? The first "Step" is to purify ones heart and mind by removing the filth that "is" already there from our slave past...and open our mind to receive the "Truth" in place of "White-Superimacy"...and only then can we say that we are on the "Path" to the "Right Knowledge of Self"...there are "No" short cuts or slick ways to grow ones self "Spiritualy"...we can fool our self and each other but we can not change the Natural Order of things...only hide, distort, hood-wink, bamboozel the "Self" into an illution of falsehoods as "We" are experiencing "To-Day"!!
If you don't know ware to are not looking hard enough and maybe not sincere enough...because "This-is" our "Day and Time" to "Rise and Liberate our self through Right-Knowledge" the "Medu" "Neter" or word of G-d. Note: The time for "All" messed up "Ways" is "Over"!!



Watch Her Flow
Mar 22, 2004
Where the Niger meets the Nile
Great topic, brotha Ibrahim.
Keep telling it like it is, brotha Moorf.

Most people identify Self as personality. They put limits on themselves by identifying with their emotions and idiosyncracies then they call these limitations "self-knowledge."

If we have a goal like unity we know what we need to do to achieve it but we reinforce failure by identifying with those parts of our personalities that aren't conducive to unity--pet peeves, self-righteousness, religious dogma, fear, things we've told ourselves we can't stand, add your own to the etc.

Knowing Self is not knowing what we like or don't like. Knowing self is recognizing our oneness with God and with one another. I don't want to get into an argument about what oneness means, but even if you go to the bible you see that while God created man's body, he did not create man's spirit but breathed that spirit out of his own being into the nostrils of man.

We are one. So what ever we don't like in others if we look very closely we will discover we are looking into a mirror at what we don't like in ourselves but cannot admit so we project it onto others.


Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2005
Ghana, West Africa
Cedric Denson said:
This is to anyone who will wish to respond (Forgive me if I mess up your thread Brother Ibrahim):



Good Question Brother.

<waiting for an answer>

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