Black Spirituality Religion : KJV Bible talk debate

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Music Producer, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You don’t know the Bible you pretend to know the Bible to pull bits and pieces out of the Bible and make those bits and pieces appear negative or so that you can use those bits and peaces in you favor in an attempt to cloud and or destroy what the whole of the Bible is saying. The same tricks are used by servants of the New Testament to destroy the Old Testament in degrading the ideology of the Old Testament. They will pull one little line out of the Suffering Servant prophesy and say, “see, see, its talking about Jesus”. But when the entire prophecy is read, one realizes it is actually talking about other Old Testament prophets to come and Israel, not Jesus.

    If you address and avoid answering questions and completing experiments to prove or disprove your statements about basic physics and science then there is absolutely nothing you and I could converse about on metaphysics.

    All you are doing is proving my first statement. So I will ask you a basic question, out of the people GOD commanded to be murdered how many of them were evil towards GOD?

    If I recall GOD made specific punishing LAWS against rape.

    Deut:22:25: But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:


    If I recall GOD made specific LAWS against human sacrifice.

    Deut:18:10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    11: Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    12: For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.


    You are correct, the ideas of Satanism is defined in the Old Testament just as those same ideas are classified as evil and gives us instruction on how to recognize and destroy it as GOD informed us to do and as GOD did.

    Are there any LAWS against rape in the New Testament?
    Are there any LAWS against human sacrifice in the New Testament?

    If not, why not?

    The New Testament at its nature is temptation. If the New Testament is suppose to be the new Covenant then it should cover every single LAW that is in the old Covenant.

    Show me the passage that confuses you in believing the GOD of the Old Testament was eating the meet.

    If I recall the Levites inherited the service of the Temple. In this the Levite had no other job, income or inheritance, their only resources was the Tenth Offering thus it was the Levites that actually consumed the food.


    Gen:6:3: And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    This passage has nothing to do with Moses. As a matter of fact Moses hadn’t even been born when this passage was stated.

    The passage is in reference to beings that were created from the interaction between entities referred to Sons of GOD and Human women.

    Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


    The word “Giants” is better understood as “Fallen ones”, “Nefilim”. The Servants of the New Testament did not want the words “Fallen” and “Sons of GOD” to appear in the same passage because it is to revealing. Thus they smudged the translation with “Giants”.


    and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


    The passage is talking about those offspring’s. The offspring’s had the strong Spirit of GOD in them that came from the Sons of GOD but they were flesh that came from the human woman. Basically this is describing demigods in the earth that humans began to worship, praise and war against each other and we started to forget the Supreme Being because these demigods looked like us but they had unexplainable powers that they inherited from Sons.

    The Sons of GOD and their Offsprings reigned in the earth for 120 years then GOD ended their reign over earth and humans with the flood but GOD saved Humans through Noah.

    Yes, it could be because it is Jesus’ job as a Fallen Son of GOD to tempt humans to hate, despise and reject anything about the Old Testament and convince humans that the Old Testament ideology is evil and should be abandoned for the service of the Son.

    The Old Testament and the New Testament are not the same book, they are two completely different ideologies and are actually adversarial.

    The Old Testament is GODLY, the New Testament is GODLY in it was allowed by GOD to prove humans.

    Deut:13:3: Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

    Judg:2
    21: I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:
    22: That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.

    Jer:6:21: Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his friend shall perish.


    All ideologies that pull souls away from the Supreme Being too anything that is less is an ideology that proves us against the Supreme Being.

    Just like you try to pull souls away from the Supreme Being to have them follow you, you proveth the people against the Supreme Being.

    Show me where the Supreme Being instructs us to “not kill evil”.

    Peace and Power in Reading.
     
  2. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!

    Welcome back Music Producer,

    Its good having you back and posting again! The last thing I want to do is come between you and ru2religious in this discussion, however, I must agree with you and likewise say that he cannot know the Bible. There are so-call preachers and pastors that don't know the Bible, the very thing they are committed to.

    I am sure you have your reasons supporting why you feel as you do, and my reasons are simply this, if we really knew the Bible, as we claim, then there would not be this terrible divide among us, we would recognize the Bible to be what it is, a book of African history, culture and social life, without a necessity to make biblical parallels with Kemet, etc...nor would we use the Bible in such a fashion that has been stated(I know the bible which is why I go through the motions and post on biblical topics but I spend 90% reading some of the power topics on this forum that is based on metaphysics ...)

    Peace In fellows and have a good one!



     
  3. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Here we go, you seem a little upset which I can understand but let us speak with peace as we go back over this all over again.

    First point, I think my comment was taken a little out of context. What I should have said is that I know the bible enough to speak with you on the subject matters concerning the scriptures. Secondly, you made a comment about me picking and choosing scriptures - isn't this what you have been doing all the while? In the thread which prompted you to create this thread you selected scriptures from the whole Tanach. You were picking and choosing as you accuse me of doing - which is what I did as a form of researching the connection between Moses and the God of the bible but it just so happens that there are several passages which suggest so and until they are proven wrong they remain as my points of studies until proven otherwise.

    I think that I've proven my cause quite well in concerns to basic physics and I am confident in that area of studies so we need to just leave that area along. What I'm concerned about is this debate that we have to go through again because you have this thing where you allow your frustration to get to you and I can feel that tension through this monitor. With this being said and now that we've gotten the rhetoric out of the way; lets debate this bible again.


    None -

    Because they wouldn't serve him he killed them. Again, because their ways were not as his ways he killed them. In order to steal land he killed them. People were being wiped out by the droves and you are trying to justify such outrageous acts? Are you OK with Muslims wiping out your family because you don't believe as they believe? I mean this is the situation they were dealing with. I don't know how you would justify such actions and while your in the business of asking questions, why are you justifying such acts? Be careful how you answer though because either you condone the murders of innocent people or you don't. If you don't condone it then why are you acting as though these action were and are ok?

    Jdg 21:20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
    Jdg 21:21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.

    RAPE MY BRUTHA RAPE!!! AND AGAIN

    Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
    Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled (HURT) her, he may not put her away all his days.

    This is rape so you give a scriptures that speaks against it but fail to give scriptures that justify it. The god of the scriptures gave permission to do such heinous act and because these white boys love their scriptures they did it to our fore-mothers thinking that this is justifiable. Is it justifiable Music Producer? Is this acceptable, because if it is not then you must re-evaluate the Old Testament.

    God Told Abraham to sacrifice his son ...

    Jephthah sacrificed his daughter just to kill more people under gods OK. He said that first thing that runs out of my house ... he will sacrifice ... and so his daughter he had to kill as a sacrifice to the LORD.

    There are other stories ... ask for them and I will give them to you.

    Again, the things that has happened under the name of the biblical god of the Old Testament is nothing short of what would be consider EVIL!!! Don't try to change the system of destruction that has killed millions in the OT. You can't do that - you know what has happened in the scriptures of old and try to walk away from it as though its not real according to the scriptures.

    So again I ask you, are you justifying Rape, Incest (Abraham & Sarah), Kidnapping (Judges 21:10-24 innocent you virgin girls), Family rape (Lot and his 2 daughters), prostituting of women (Lot offered his daughter to be raped in place of the male angels/messengers), Murder, Land grabbing like Americans did the the Native Americans, etc ... If you are ok with this then we have a problem Music Producer, if you do not condone these things then you do not accept the Tanach as your sacred book.

    Jesus saved a woman's life who was going to die by being stoned. He understood the importance of women unlike the Tanach which have no respect for women whatsoever.
    Man you got me sounding like a Christian over here and I'm not -

    Jesus didn't want to be sacrificed which is why he was sweating blood man. He was crying before god trying to find another way. Jesus was a rebel, he didn't want to die but that's the way Christians made it seem and thus this is why you think he was trying to sacrifice his life.

    The main point here is that there was human sacrifice in the OT and it was approved by God. The point is God allowed Rape, these are the points - the scriptures verify what I say and I'm not making things up so now you have to explain why this type of behavior is OK. Jesus didn't want to kill anybody and he didn't want to die neither.

    lol ...

    Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven


    Jesus to people he came to fulfill the laws which mean he came to live out the laws as they were supposed to lived.

    Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
    Gen 18:2 And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
    Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
    Gen 18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
    Gen 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
    Gen 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
    Gen 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
    Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

    Lev 2:12 As for the oblation of the firstfruits, ye shall offer them unto the LORD: but they shall not be burnt on the altar for a sweet savor.
    Lev 2:13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

    The god of the bible loves Salt on his meat or is it Moses that like salt on his meat? Hummm... I don't know but I will let you decide Music Producer.

    What I've underlined is totally wrong WRONG - The scripture is not by no means referring to the giant beings. The scriptures says exactly what it say. The lord said, "my spirit", he wasn't talking about to and bill jenkins, he said his spirit will not always be with humans because he is also flesh. It reads as it do, you can't give out your interpretation which is what most preacher do in this causes in order to fit their ideal.

    As far as Moses being born ... lol ... Moses was supposed to be the one writing these passages. Even worse Moses was already dead by the time this stuff was written in the first place. Again, these giants were supposed to be destroyed but they can be found dealing with Jashua and them. When the giants are brought into the equation the scriptures were telling of their story. Verse 6:3 has nothing to deal with that.


    How do you know this? ... See this is what I mean, your speaking for people and authors instead of reading the words and not trying to change them as they fit your personal philosophy.


    Now you know their mentality - but yeah I'm going to go with you on this one but this next quote ...

    Again, Genesis 6:3 took time out to speak about the Lord ... it wasn't talking about the Giants. You have to remember that in the Noah story this giants and all living things on this planet supposed to have died. This was a lie because the Giants were still walking the earth in the days of Moses and Jashua, so was this story pertaining to Moses time or was it at the 6,000 year ago creation of this planet and the Universe?

    What you have too understand is that I was once a Law Keeper Hebrew Israelite which didn't believe in the New Testament or JC and I wouldn't even say his name because I felt that it was evil to even mention. Here the problem with your theory above ... Jesus told people to follow the commandment (Matthew 5:19, Luke 18:18, etc ... ) so why would he tell people to reject the scriptures? Could it be that he was coming at the Pharisees and Sads because they were adding their little customs as time began to progress?

    Again, you've said this before ... time and time again and it still doesn't take away the fact that you have a lot of answering to do and then I can address these scriptures because they need to be address ... above ... I have to remind you because you will run from the points above and questioned asked.

    I think we have two different definitions of what we call evil. Killing innocent people in my eyes are evil. Raping young girls is evil in my eyes, I don't know about you ... you my be of a different opinion but I hope to find out right away. Thou shall not kill, yet over 2 million people were killed! Thou Shall not still, yet Canaan was stolen from the Canaanites and much more ...

    It seems to me that you take evil as being the exact opposite because Jesus wasn't raping, killing, stealing, committing adultry, fornication, etc ...

    Please define evil for me so that I may learn what you mean by justifying these EVIL acts.

    Peace and Blessings
     
  4. oceolo

    oceolo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Old and New Testament are both inspired by God and confirm one another. The Old Testament makes prophesies about Jesus and the New Testament constantly makes references to the Old Testament--this wouldn't be the case if the two didn't corroborate each other .
     
  5. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What's up sir -

    As I explained to Music Producer I will explain to you, when I made the comment I was speaking in terms of reading the bible enough to the point where I could hold a conversation through and through whether I'm right or wrong.

    To understand the bible in its entirety you would have to speak with the actual authors of the biblical text. What we interpret the scriptures to mean today may not have legitimacy based on its actual meaning. My objective is to expose the scriptures as they may be.

    My point for pointing out my interest in Metaphysics because I don't want Music Producer to think that he's debating a Christian because sometimes I can come off as one while debating. It was a friendly reminder and a heads up to though who think I'm debating from a stand point, because I will debate Christian that come to this thread as well.

    The point is, the scriptures are filled with inconsistencies murder, deceit, land grabbing, rape, incest, sexism, and all over manners of what is considered evil. Can it be disputed that the Old Testament is riddle with such atrocities, absolutely not so if one is promoting the Old Testament then in my eyes, that one is promoting the sickness of those Old Testament which means that persons personality is up for question.

    If we are not ok with what happened to the Native Americans, then we shouldn't be happy about what happened in the land of Canaan. If we are not happy about how the British stole South Africa, then we should be happy about the biblical land grab.

    If we are not ok with rape, then we shouldn't be ok with it being justified or even told to make happen by a god. If we are not ok with incest then we shouldn't be happy about it being ok in the scriptures. If we are not ok with murder, then we shouldn't be ok with it being in the scriptures. I am concerned at the fact that many of us humans find more compassion then a deity who is supposed to our creator.

    This is my stance on the whole thing. I urge Music Producer to produce and answer to whether or not he is ok with such heinous acts. My brutha, Music Producer opened this thread for the 'KJV Bible talk Debate' I don't see how you are intruding. I write these thing in peace so I don't take what criticism that I get personally, we are talking about peoples faiths and moral beliefs, so with this being said - have fun ...

    Peace and Blessings
     
  6. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hello oceolo,

    The Old Testament is as far east as it is as far west in terms of differences. These two books have nothing in common whatsoever. The New Testament writers tried to take prophesies from the Old Testament which were fulfilled in its time frame (based on the so-called histories of the bible).

    This point I totally agree with Music Producer on, these are two different teachings but one thing they have in common is the same Deity 'Amen' from Km.t. It is very important to identify the difference so that you can see what damages have been done to - 2 billion Christian and counting, and this is without mentioning those who followed these doctrines in the past.

    I would like to invite you to provide evidence to your claim that they the Old Testament and the New Testament complement each other. With this being said, I look forward to conversing with you in peace.

    Peace and Blessings
     
  7. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    ru2religious,

    Herein lies the epitome of my claim, to know the Bible is to also know that such atrocities as you have mentioned as given in the biblical outline, are simply reports of the depravity of man, and that depravity has existed, practically from his or its(Bible's) inception until now, these same conditions you describe continue to exist, perpetually, with no end in sight. To think otherwise, which is to say, that the Bible is against all this, is to a large degree, naïve, around which naivety the central message often flows from the pulpits. Also, you make it sound as though the biblical message is to correct such depravity, and its failure to do so renders it inadequate, renders it to not to be what it claims, and so forth and so on. Here is the message; something good cannot come from something evil.

     
  8. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    So eloquently put brutha Clyde Coger. Here's my position, if you use a book to determine your morality then the book must contain morals that are consistent across the board. I hear people makes comments like, "the B.I.B.L.E stand for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth" and I'm like what?

    If you go by the Old Testament/Tanach then the instruction that God has given are frightening at best. There are laws (613) and then there are instructions. So if the basic instructions that are giving is to kill, steal and destroy, these instructions are not within the confines of the 'laws' which should have prohibited such heinous acts. This is what I find interesting throughout the scriptures. If these are the instruction which are given, most of them being based on murdering innocent people then its no wonder why X president Bush had no qualms about the atrocities committed in Iraq and even in America being that he is a Christian.

    What he was doing is nothing short of the instructions that has been given by the god of the Old Testament, yet the argument is that the New Testament promotes satanism and that it is an evil book. I know that people will be people and they will break laws from time to time but the bible, the book of morality shouldn't be an instructional guide to this evil.

    If you look at the devilish ways of many European leaders (not all of them), you will see some type of consistency with the attributes of the Old Testament deity, yet they utilize the 7*70 forgiven rule (per day) based on their evils.

    I don't think it is to much for people to re-examine what they've been told given the right material by presenting information as it was written. My Moses theory is nothing more then a theory but my opinion on this is starting to sway in the direction that there is some validity to my accusations.

    Clyde Coger, once again your wording is flawless.

    Peace and Blessings
     
  9. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Peace ru2religious,

    Here is what we know, mankind is depraved and Gold comes out of Fire(tried).

     
  10. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    True that my brutha, truth that.

    Peace and Blessings
     
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