Black People : Justice and Revenge

Blaklioness

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- No, i actually agree with you that it does not make a difference who carries it out. My only argument is that one is physical and the other is Mental. In regards to our collective, "Justice" under their definition has never been upheld because even when we win, we loose! Universal Justice however has always been served, it's just that we have lost sight of what true Jusitce is or may have never known what it is that keeps us balanced and at ease.


In case I may have overlooked or forgotten it, tell me again what your understanding of Universal Justice is?


- Again, I partially agree with everything except that the thief is not suffering. The thief is and has been suffering since the thought of robbing someone entered his mind. The only way the thief could have stopped the process of suffering would be to not carry the crime out, though it would have still left a certain level of Dis - ease! Re-offense often occurs, yes, but not to the same victim and how could a thief or any criminal commit a crime if they themselves are not suffering already mentally! Only the mentally dead, seek out to make others suffermentally and or physically. Life, looks to give life and the dead seek death and destruction.

In physics there are 14.7 pds of atmospheric pressure on every sq. inch of the human body and if you don't have a force within to combat the force without, you start to cave in and this is when the Hue-man becomes DIS-EASED! So it is with the victimizer, so it is with the victim across the board. Sometimes we forget what we have gotten away with in the past, so when something happens to us, we don't realize that what we did in the past has just caught up to us and we start to scream for JUSTICE, not realizing JUSTICE has just been served for what we did to someone else a long long time ago..


Do you know those stories often relayed by Black parents about children acting up? Regardless of where the so-called 'offense' occurs, if it is a LEGITIMATE offense, the 'correction' of that offense occurs on the spot---not a year or two later. Logically, it makes perfect sense, and I'm sure you know where I'm heading with this. In as much as a punishable offense/crime should be a LEGITIMATE (i.e. the willful breaking of universal law of which the person has systematically, consciously, and consistently been made aware of by those---here or there^ ---responsible for doing such) charge against the perpetrator, any LEGITIMATE punishment/correction of that crime needs to occur 'on the spot'. Anytime an authority figure, here or there^, issues a punishment, or 'justice', out of context it becomes a moot point. Instinct tells me that punishment occurs to correct certain behaviors or thought processes---basically, to make the soul/entity/person ponder the consequences of her or his actions. Therefore, if you separate crime and punishment (i.e. take them out of context), what you have is no longer justice or balance. You set it up to make the victim look like the perpetrator and the perpetrator to look like the victim. This is a cycle of nonsense because: 1.) You don't learn any lesson out of context----when you are unable to make a connection with what has happened. 2.) How do you know if you are in the lifetime where you are the initial victim or the perpetrator paying for a former crime? This particular take will have HUGE implications for the Black collective which is struggling to understand its centuries old global predicament. Many of us talk of being victims, but, under your theory, is this really true? Are we paying for crimes against other races?...or are we currently legitimate victims? Sometimes, it seems, we get so lost in praising the ancestors' philosophies that we lose the practical meaning behind them. Any legitimate philosophy will show itself---consistently and without contradiction.
 

info-moetry

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- No, i actually agree with you that it does not make a difference who carries it out. My only argument is that one is physical and the other is Mental. In regards to our collective, "Justice" under their definition has never been upheld because even when we win, we loose! Universal Justice however has always been served, it's just that we have lost sight of what true Jusitce is or may have never known what it is that keeps us balanced and at ease.


In case I may have overlooked or forgotten it, tell me again what your understanding of Universal Justice is?


- Again, I partially agree with everything except that the thief is not suffering. The thief is and has been suffering since the thought of robbing someone entered his mind. The only way the thief could have stopped the process of suffering would be to not carry the crime out, though it would have still left a certain level of Dis - ease! Re-offense often occurs, yes, but not to the same victim and how could a thief or any criminal commit a crime if they themselves are not suffering already mentally! Only the mentally dead, seek out to make others suffermentally and or physically. Life, looks to give life and the dead seek death and destruction.

In physics there are 14.7 pds of atmospheric pressure on every sq. inch of the human body and if you don't have a force within to combat the force without, you start to cave in and this is when the Hue-man becomes DIS-EASED! So it is with the victimizer, so it is with the victim across the board. Sometimes we forget what we have gotten away with in the past, so when something happens to us, we don't realize that what we did in the past has just caught up to us and we start to scream for JUSTICE, not realizing JUSTICE has just been served for what we did to someone else a long long time ago..


Do you know those stories often relayed by Black parents about children acting up? Regardless of where the so-called 'offense' occurs, if it is a LEGITIMATE offense, the 'correction' of that offense occurs on the spot---not a year or two later. Logically, it makes perfect sense, and I'm sure you know where I'm heading with this. In as much as a punishable offense/crime should be a LEGITIMATE (i.e. the willful breaking of universal law of which the person has systematically, consciously, and consistently been made aware of by those---here or there^ ---responsible for doing such) charge against the perpetrator, any LEGITIMATE punishment/correction of that crime needs to occur 'on the spot'. Anytime an authority figure, here or there^, issues a punishment, or 'justice', out of context it becomes a moot point. Instinct tells me that punishment occurs to correct certain behaviors or thought processes---basically, to make the soul/entity/person ponder the consequences of her or his actions. Therefore, if you separate crime and punishment (i.e. take them out of context), what you have is no longer justice or balance. You set it up to make the victim look like the perpetrator and the perpetrator to look like the victim. This is a cycle of nonsense because: 1.) You don't learn any lesson out of context----when you are unable to make a connection with what has happened. 2.) How do you know if you are in the lifetime where you are the initial victim or the perpetrator paying for a former crime? This particular take will have HUGE implications for the Black collective which is struggling to understand its centuries old global predicament. Many of us talk of being victims, but, under your theory, is this really true? Are we paying for crimes against other races?...or are we currently legitimate victims? Sometimes, it seems, we get so lost in praising the ancestors' philosophies that we lose the practical meaning behind them. Any legitimate philosophy will show itself---consistently and without contradiction.

peace sister Blaklioness

In case I may have overlooked or forgotten it, tell me again what your understanding of Universal Justice is?
- My overstanding of Justice being Universal is that the mind is governed by the same law as the womb of space for as we already know the Universe is mental..."as above, so below" "reep what you sew" "and so on! Therefore, it does not matter what anyone thinks JUSTICE should be, or how it should be carried out, for Justice just is! I understand what you are saying also, but i feel the difference is that i am talking about a law which seperates justice from Re-venge and you are saying that they are the same thing!

Do you know those stories often relayed by Black parents about children acting up? Regardless of where the so-called 'offense' occurs, if it is a LEGITIMATE offense, the 'correction' of that offense occurs on the spot---not a year or two later. Logically, it makes perfect sense, and I'm sure you know where I'm heading with this
-lol, of course i do. I was probably one of those who got corrected on the spot for acting up! It does make perfect sense, though this example i feel has more to do with Parenting than Justice. If a child is acting up, that child may not be conciouse of the fact that he/she is acting up therefore that child is outside of the law. Once the child becomes concious that what they are doing is wrong, whether it be by the parents back hand or reaching the age of maturity the "law of justice" then sets in. The child can no longer act up again without the feeling of guilt, or knowledge of their mischieviousness!




In as much as a punishable offense/crime should be a LEGITIMATE (i.e. the willful breaking of universal law of which the person has systematically, consciously, and consistently been made aware of by those---here or there^ ---responsible for doing such) charge against the perpetrator, any LEGITIMATE punishment/correction of that crime needs to occur 'on the spot'. Anytime an authority figure, here or there^, issues a punishment, or 'justice', out of context it becomes a moot point.
- I can dig it! Yes, the offender needs to be stopped/apprehended on the spot, but this physical act does not make it Just! The law of Justice is already punishing the offender once he/she, as you properly noted "willfully broke universal law of which the person has systematically, consciously, and consistently been made aware of".

Instinct tells me that punishment occurs to correct certain behaviors or thought processes---basically, to make the soul/entity/person ponder the consequences of her or his actions. Therefore, if you separate crime and punishment (i.e. take them out of context), what you have is no longer justice or balance. You set it up to make the victim look like the perpetrator and the perpetrator to look like the victim. This is a cycle of nonsense because:
- I never said that the criminal should not be punished, I am saying once the criminal thought appears and is carried out in the physical form before the so-called law catches him/her - he/she is already unknowingly being punished by the law of Justice. I, am in no way trying to separate crime and punishment, I think i may have a different view point of the 2, for how can you have Justice without balance? Crime and punishment in this system equate to balance? I don't think so....

1.) You don't learn any lesson out of context----when you are unable to make a connection with what has happened
- I respectfully disagree as the criminal is fully aware of what has happened, even if he is never punished for his crime! Many lessons can be learned out of context if the proper connection is made.

2.) How do you know if you are in the lifetime where you are the initial victim or the perpetrator paying for a former crime?
- Why would knowing this matter? The "law" is the law!

This particular take will have HUGE implications for the Black collective which is struggling to understand its centuries old global predicament.
- The black collective is only struggling with understanding it's centuries old global predicament because the majority of us continue to seek our overstanding of it thru our enemies eye, not because of the law of Justice!

Many of us talk of being victims, but, under your theory, is this really true? Are we paying for crimes against other races?...or are we currently legitimate victims? Sometimes, it seems, we get so lost in praising the ancestors' philosophies that we lose the practical meaning behind them. Any legitimate philosophy will show itself---consistently and without contradiction
- I don't know if many of us talk of being victims so much as many of our people speak on the many accomplishments and the struggle to collectively get back to that mind state by overcoming what we have been thru. No, we are not paying for crimes against other races and a victim is only a victim if they "believe" themselves to be that....at a point, if balance is not achieved mentally, the victim can turn into the perp., thus beginning to victimize oneself!

If I have a 400 page book in one hand and a pen in the other and i drop them which one will hit the floor first? The 400 page book? No, both items will hit the floor at the same time, because i dropped them into a law.

peace to you
 

Blaklioness

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peace sister Blaklioness

- My overstanding of Justice being Universal is that the mind is governed by the same law as the womb of space for as we already know the Universe is mental..."as above, so below" "reep what you sew" "and so on! Therefore, it does not matter what anyone thinks JUSTICE should be, or how it should be carried out, for Justice just is! I understand what you are saying also, but i feel the difference is that i am talking about a law which seperates justice from Re-venge and you are saying that they are the same thing!

-lol, of course i do. I was probably one of those who got corrected on the spot for acting up! It does make perfect sense, though this example i feel has more to do with Parenting than Justice. If a child is acting up, that child may not be conciouse of the fact that he/she is acting up therefore that child is outside of the law. Once the child becomes concious that what they are doing is wrong, whether it be by the parents back hand or reaching the age of maturity the "law of justice" then sets in. The child can no longer act up again without the feeling of guilt, or knowledge of their mischieviousness!




- I can dig it! Yes, the offender needs to be stopped/apprehended on the spot, but this physical act does not make it Just! The law of Justice is already punishing the offender once he/she, as you properly noted "willfully broke universal law of which the person has systematically, consciously, and consistently been made aware of".

- I never said that the criminal should not be punished, I am saying once the criminal thought appears and is carried out in the physical form before the so-called law catches him/her - he/she is already unknowingly being punished by the law of Justice. I, am in no way trying to separate crime and punishment, I think i may have a different view point of the 2, for how can you have Justice without balance? Crime and punishment in this system equate to balance? I don't think so....

- I respectfully disagree as the criminal is fully aware of what has happened, even if he is never punished for his crime! Many lessons can be learned out of context if the proper connection is made.

- Why would knowing this matter? The "law" is the law!

- The black collective is only struggling with understanding it's centuries old global predicament because the majority of us continue to seek our overstanding of it thru our enemies eye, not because of the law of Justice!

- I don't know if many of us talk of being victims so much as many of our people speak on the many accomplishments and the struggle to collectively get back to that mind state by overcoming what we have been thru. No, we are not paying for crimes against other races and a victim is only a victim if they "believe" themselves to be that....at a point, if balance is not achieved mentally, the victim can turn into the perp., thus beginning to victimize oneself!

If I have a 400 page book in one hand and a pen in the other and i drop them which one will hit the floor first? The 400 page book? No, both items will hit the floor at the same time, because i dropped them into a law.

peace to you



Ok...you shared a lot here, so let me see if I can sum up a response:

Again, this is what I mean when I say, when we get to the point of studying and questioning our history, we spend too much time over-intellectualizing ancestral philosophies. Those laws don't exist just so we can listen to how beautiful they sound rolling off the human tongue....there are PRACTICAL reasons for them, and this is what we need to get connected with. It's like knowing mathematical formulas---at some point, to become useful to the human experience, they must be made practical. Otherwise, who cares?

Justice is in fact parenting; you break the law, you pay. But, you must first KNOW the law in order to properly exercise free will; knowing the law is the responsibility of authority figures (remember here or there^). If those responsible for doing such fail to do so, then, by all rights, they should take the heat along with you/us--if, in fact, not for you/us. There is no justice (nor lessons) where connections aren't made; the universe would have to be more than acutely aware of this. It is aware that humans do violate the law with will and intent---meaning they KNOW! So that many do not one feel ounce of guilt upon making such violations---otherwise the prevalence of evil would have long ago ended. In order for our enemies to have lied about our history, they would have to know the truth in order to do that. Do you follow me here?

I suppose I can add that if I had to make any distinction between justice and revenge at all, it would be on who you targeted; say, for example, if someone wronged me, and instead of going after THAT individual, I went after some innocent person they loved in an attempt to hurt them. That might be a distinct example of revenge for me.

I'm clueless as to what you said about the black collective. I can only say that it goes against your previous assertion that if we are suffering, it is because of prior violations. So, from that, it simply doesn't make sense to say that, we are victimizing ourselves through our belief that we are victims. We are the most hated race on the planet, and you are saying it's because we are making it all up?...maybe you can elaborate if I've misunderstood.

Peace.
 

Clyde C Coger Jr

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Thank you all. Let me back up a bit. Revenge is typically carried out in response to a wrongdoing; so is justice. I would never, for example, apply the term 'revenge' to the actions of someone who, with no provocation, breaks into someone else's house and steals from them; in this scenario, a person is harmed, but for what?...there is no revenge motive. To further elaborate, say someone purposely, and again without provocation, destroys my property and manages to evade the law; I take actions against the person because they took from me without remorse and may potentially re-offend. If I was legitimately wronged, would my actions be revenge or justice?




Sister Blaklioness...Your actions would be revengeful, even though in your eyes, and perhaps others, it is justice. What makes it revenge is the fact the a court of law didn't mete out the punishment.

The difference between the two(revenge and justice) lies in who metes out the punishment for the crime, and whether the punishment is less than, equal to or greater than the wrong done. Besides, revenge also means retaliation or vengeance, with a punitive force; while justice is based on morals and the fairness of a system, not the individual.

If the punishment is less than the wrong done, it would be considered justice, regardless of who meted out the punishment. If it is equal to or greater than the wrong, it is revengeful, again, regardless of who meted out the punishment.


By the way my sister friend Blaklioness...this is a great discussion thread you have here; and Precise Allah's point of view is on point, in my view.

 

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