JESUS WAS A VEGETARIAN...

Discussion in 'Black Health and Wellness' started by Aqil, May 29, 2001.

  1. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    (First of all it must be said that the Bible does not contain every word that Jesus spoke during the time he lived on this planet, simply because it is impossible to record every word a person speaks during a lifetime.)

    There are some profound words spoken by Jesus that are not recorded in the New Testament of the Bible. In an enlightening book that was translated from the Aramaic (the language Jesus spoke) by Dr. Edouard Szekely titled The Essene Gospel of Peace, the great Prophet – who was a member of the Essene sect that practiced vegetarianism – espouses on God’s laws of eating in the following profound statement:

    “God commanded your forefathers: ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill!’ But their hearts were hardened and they killed. Then Moses decided that at least they should not kill men, and he suffered them to kill beasts. And then the hearts of your forefathers were hardened yet more, and they killed men and beasts likewise...

    But I say unto you: Kill neither men nor beasts, nor the food that goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you; but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. For life comes only from life, and from death always comes death...

    For everything that kills your foods kills your bodies also. And everything that kills your bodies kills your soul also. And your bodies become what your foods are; even as your spirits, likewise, become what your thoughts are. Therefore eat not anything which fire, frost or water has destroyed. For burned, frozen and rotted foods will burn, freeze, and rot your body also.”


    Jesus also admonishes us to:

    “Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scriptures is dead. For I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws in writing, but through the living word. The law is the living word of the living God to living prophets for living men...

    In everything that is life the law is written. You find it in the grass, in the trees, in the rivers, in the mountains, in the birds of heaven, in the fish of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture – which is without life...

    God so-made life and all living things that they might – by the ever-living word – teach the laws of the one true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.”
     
  2. dnommo

    dnommo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Aqil,

    while it is true that a lot of the original text has been transposed i applauded you for such enli9ghtenment. Also, i would like to know more on how you came to the conclusion that Jesus was a vegetarian. Although i am not dispelling your views, i am asking for further evidence of such.

    it is true that there are a few other texts that speak on the life of Chrsit but, as with the Four Gospels also, they tend to provide a different viewpoint of Christ. I may comment on this topic at a later date but for now i am reading i consuming. Could you provide me more references supproting your comments. I would like to look further...

    "iron shrapens iron"
     
  3. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The words of Jesus in the thread answers your question, dnommo. I suggest that you purchase the book I referred to - The Essene Gospel of Peace.
     
  4. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Jesus was an Essene, and the Essenes were a spiritual sect that practiced vegetarianism. According to Philo of Alexandria, in Quod Omnis Probus Liber:

    "The Essene were a sect of Jews, and lived in Syria, Palestine. They were over 4,000 in number, and called 'Essaei,' because of their saintliness; for 'hosio'=saintly, and is the same word as 'Essaius.' They were worshipers of God and did not sacrifice animals, regarding a reverent mind as the only true sacrifice...

    At first they lived in villages and avoided cities, in order to escape the contagion of evils rife therein. They pursued agriculture and other peaceful arts; but accumulated not gold or silver, nor owned mines. No maker of warlike weapons, no huckster or trader by land or sea was to be found among them. Least of all were any slaves found among them; for they saw in slavery a violation of the law of nature, which made all men free brethren, one of the other..."

    (Philo of Alexandria, in Quod Omnis Probus Liber, written ca. 20 A.D.)
     
  5. happy2Bnappy

    happy2Bnappy New Member MEMBER

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    I will do as I say but not unto you?

    kemestry's point is always the one that occurs to me when I read that Jesus was vegetarian and that we therefore should be as well. It may be a minor one, but the implication bothers me.

    Aqil, are you saying that Jesus admonished people to not eat dead flesh, did not eat it himself, yet he willingly served it to the multitude? That does not sound like WJWD.

    He served it, so he could not have expected folks not to eat it.
     
  6. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i truly commend your energy and knowledge.
    however i quote Romans 14: 14-.....

    "i know and am persuaded by the lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean TO HIM it is unclean."

    Romans 14:3
    "let not him that eats despise him that does not eat; and let not him which eats not judge him that eats: for God has received him.

    passage 14:17
    "for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness
    and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."
    14:22, 23.....

    there is a very noticable contradiction comparing the "essenes gospel of peace and any version (kjv, niv, etc...) concerning what Jesus spoke...

    in the bible he says "it is not what goes in that defiles a man, but what comes out.."

    nfinitely
    jh.

    p.s i don't eat pig (exceptional ribs :wink: ) but dang, i need sumfin' to go wit deez eggs.... :mad:

    peace.
     
  7. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes, Jehiah, Jesus does say: "For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you." This is a very significant saying, and it has nothing to do with food. For example, if I insult you and call you a name, that will not defile you...but what comes out - i.e., how you react to my insult - that determines the defilement.

    Another thing...if you drank a pint of whiskey right now...that will defile you because it changes your thinking and you become negative and obnoxious. This is certainly a contradiction re: the Biblical verse we are referring to, because in this case it is what goes in that defiles you...not to mention what comes out! :lol:
     
  8. dnommo

    dnommo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have stayed silent and watched the formation of this topic and i must say that some of it has been very interesting. What I also find is that at times some may not like when others question their views. Well, i respect everyone's views but i have a problem with the misuse of scripture.

    First, I have read the sections in which you speak of and well it seems that this book you stand on as additional teachings of Jesus tends to separate the creations of man as two fold: body from Mother Earth and spirit from God. There was not a dual parentage to makind. Genesis speaks slearly that man was created when God dug his hands into the ground and created man. Where is it that Mother Earth created man? Just my first question.

    Second you spoke that “Poultry was not an article of diet during Jesus' time. “ Well that is incorrect for as you look at Genesis 1:28 speaks, “and over the fowl of the air.” Poultry involves a lot more than just chicken. There are over 350 types of poultry and that is documented. In fact, one of the major occupations in the Palestine region was that of a “fowler.” (Psalm_91:3; Psalm_124:7; Prov_6:5; Jer_5:26; Hosea_9:8; Ezek_17:20; Eccl_9:12.) Because birds of all kinds abound in Palestine, and the capture of these for the table and for other uses, fowler formed the employment of many persons. The traps and snares used for this purpose are mentioned (Hosea_5:1; Prov_7:23; Prov_22:5; Amos_3:5; Psalm_69:22; comp. Deut_22:6,7. )Palestine was the area in which Jesus dwelled, therefore to say that there was no poultry in that area is false.

    Now it is very true that Jesus was an Essene but more specifically, he was a Nazarite. The Nazarites followed a very strict vow. There were three things the Nazarite was not to do; these three negatives being simply the fruit and the expression of the positive fact that he was a man devoted "UNTO THE LORD."
    1. He was not to eat or drink any part or product of the vine.
    2. He was not to cut his hair.
    3. He was not to come in contact with a dead body.

    Samson, a Nazarites, broke that vow at least twice which cost him his sight as well as his life. Jesus followed the concept to the letter but still it does not speak on whether he did/did not eat meat.

    Lastly, the Essene Gospel of Peace speaks highly of not obeying the laws of the land but the laws of Mother Earth,

    "I tell you in very truth, Man is the Son of the Earthly Mother, and from her did the Son of Man receive his whole body, even as the body of the newborn babe is born of the womb of his mother. I tell you truly, you are one with the Earthly Mother; she is in you, and you in her. Of her were you born, in her do you live, and to her shall you return again. Keep, therefore, her laws, for none can live long, neither be happy, but he who honors his Earthly Mother and does her laws. For your breath is her breath; your blood her blood; your bone her bone; your flesh her flesh; your bowels her bowels; your eyes and your ears are her eyes and her ears.

    If we are in a monotheistic society, then how can we obey the laws of Mother Earth and not of GOD? Just another question…

    2 Timothy 3:16states “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.” Yet the passages you quoted says that “I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?" If this is the case then what is man supposed to follow as they strive to seek God’s righteousness and also how can we stand here and debate scripture as well as the teachings of Jesus if the scriptures are just the work of the hands of man.

    Leviticus 26:46 tells us that the ten commandments are “the statutes and ordinances and laws which the LORD established between Himself and the sons of Israel through Moses at Mount Sinai. “ This is not the first time that God’s law was established in His people. Abraham was blessed because “he obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Genesis 26:5 In Hebrews 10:16 it says "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," And Jesus spoke one of the most profound verses of them all when He says “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Matthew 5:17-18

    Now on your final point responding to J’hiah. The verse he quoted is referring to food. Jesus is using that verse as an anaolgy for the topic at hand. He is letting them know that the food we eat is consumed, separated and the negative harmful things are therefore disposed of, but the things that we speak comes from the ehart and therefore are very dangerous. While it is true that consuming alcohol can be very dangerous and make one talk in an obnoxious manner, it tends to do a lot more. The word speaks of not being drunk with wine, not consuming it. Wine was drunk at meals in biblical times because in that region water has not always readily available. Especially in the area of the Red Sea where the salt content was so high in the water that you could float on top. The problem with alcohol today is that when you consume large amounts you become quite bold and the things that are on your heart will come forward, whether you want them to or not. It is the amount consumed that is harmful not the material itself. Now please don’t get me wrong; I don’t condone alcoholism but I am clearing up some things here.

    The book you suggested is interesting reading but touse it as support for vegetarianism? Well I would think there are more support. Using the Bible is also dangerous for althought eh word says in Genesis 1:29 “Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you.” It also says in Genesis 9:2-5

    "The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man.”

    The verse you quoted supported this:
    "But I say unto you: Kill neither men nor beasts, nor the food that goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you; but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. For life comes only from life, and from death always comes death...

    Both verse simply say that you must not KILL your food. The Old Testament verse speaks ofKosher food or food without blood whereas the Essene Gospel teaching speaks on killing of food.

    Here GOD is giving us permission to eat the flesh of animals BUT we are not to murder it. This is why in Leviticus there are specific explanations on the meat of sacrificed animals. If we are not to eat meat then why did GOD give meat to the children of Israel as they wander in the wilderness? I am just curious about the teachin here.

    I feel that vegetarian diets are good for those who seek to follow such but to use Jesus as supportive character for that without valid support is dangerous. I respect your views as I Question your evidence… Now your Daniel evidence was excellent...He was a strict vegetarian.

    i pray this is received with open hearts and understanding...
     
  9. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you for your interesting discourse, dnommo...and I received it in the spirit that it was sent. It is complex and I'll deal with different aspects of it as we go along. First the words "Nazarite" and "Nazarene":

    We read in Matt. 2:23 that Jesus is to be called a "Nazarene." In the book of Acts (24:5) Paul is referred to as a "pestilent fellow, and a mover of insurrections among all Jews throughtout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes." We also know from some of the early Church Fathers that the Christianoi were originally called (and apparently accepted) "Nazarenes," a name that is supposed to be derived from the name of the city from which Jesus came: Nazareth.

    But scholars have always had to accept the possibility that at the time of Jesus there was no city called "Nazareth." They have resisted this possibility, it is true, and sometimes quite vigorously, but it definitely remains, as the reader may discover for himself by reference to the standard Bible dictionaries.

    Moreover, Nazareth is not mentioned either in the Old Testament or the Talmud. This is an argument for silence, but is not negligible. Of far greater weight, however, is the silence of Josephus. For besides being a widely traveled writer who never missed anything, and who described voluminously all that he saw, Josephus was the Jewish commander-in-chief in the war with the Romans in Galilee, which he describes at great length, and yet never mentions Nazareth. This too, is said to be an argument from silence, but it might be observed that it is a very profound silence. If Nazareth was an important Galilean city, as so many of the scholars insist, how did Josephus fight a war in which all the resources of Galilee were mustered and overlook Nazareth?

    The scholars allow, however, that there is a strong possibility that Nazareth, instead of being the name of a city, is a synonym for all of Galilee. In this case, "Nazarenes" would mean the same as "Galileans," and we know that the Christianoi were called Galileans as late as the time of the Emperor Julian. What this amounts to is that the Essenes of Galilee were sometimes called "Galileans," sometimes "Nazarenes," and that they became strongly identified with a Galilean - and therefore a Nazarene - whose name was Jesus...

    There is still a further possibility. Matthew, who was always much concerned for the literal fulfillment of prophecy, tells us that Jesus went to Nazareth (Galilee?) so that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, that he should be called a Nazarene." The only prophecy known to us to which this could refer to is the one in Isaiah 11:1, that there shall be a "shoot" or offspring of Jesse, "and the spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding": one of the passages connected with the Messiah...

    Since the Hebrew word for "shoot" (netzer) is the root word for "Nazarene," it is considered that the Nazarenes may have been a Messianic sect, perhaps connected at some time with the Nazarites, a sect of ancient origin (it will be remembered that James the Just followed Nazaritic practices), whose emphasis was the Messiah of David, Jesse's son. If so, what we have is another Essene sect, and the one that existed before the time of Jesus...

    So again we find the distinction fading. "Nazarene" means "believer in a Messiah." So does "Christianos." And we know that all the Essene sects believed in a Messiah. The truth about Nazareth may well have been that it was a Nazarene encampment or monastery to which Jesus and James both went, either as blood brothers or as brothers in the community.

    Some scholars find in the word "Nazareth" the meaning of a "watchtower," and this, too, is quite plausible since there was a tower connected with the monastery in Qumran. There is nothing the people of this period and area liked better than to find a word with many meanings, so that it had cryptic, as well as self-evident significance...
     
  10. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I disagree with your statement that the additional teachings of Jesus tend to separate the creation of man as twofold. In the second part of the Lord's Prayer he simply instructs his followers to pray to their Earthly Mother...in other words giving thanks to God for providing us with this planet to live on. As I read the second part of the prayer, I'm convinced that we - as God's greatest creation - should pray to our Earthly Mother, just as we pray to our Heavenly Father...
     
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