Brother AACOOLDRE : Jesus,God and ? created the world?

Discussion in 'AACOOLDRE' started by AACOOLDRE, Aug 5, 2003.

  1. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Jesus as The Word helped God create the world in Genesis. Genesis did say let us create the earth. Who was the third person? maybe the spirit.

    This creation story goes way back to the Egyptian Memphite theology where namely three aspects of God create the world. They were Ptah (the father) thoth (the word) and Horus (Jesus). These individuals make up the father,son and spirit.

    Ptah inventor of Fire/ craft/masons
    Thoth inventor of words/reason/air
    Horus was combination of all elements fire,water,air
     
  2. blakrok

    blakrok Member MEMBER

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    it is interesting that many creation stories are alike. my question is why is it that the source needs to be defined? if as a modern day kemite, i believe that the theology that is prevalent in our society is linked with my own, then it is a good thing. if as a christian, i believe that the Bible is the truth making plain the nature of God and it has some similarity with the stories from other cultures/traditions, i should be overjoyed. this doesn't mean that one is superior to the other but that Creator makes Himself plain to people in all times, places and cultures...God is good.
    peace
    blak
     
  3. blakrok

    blakrok Member MEMBER

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    interestingly enough, reading the Bible deeply i have found: the description of the pope as having the mark of the beast.
    the catholic church as being the woman in revelation.
    the trifold nature of God
    the Lordship of His Son
    the reality of death
    the nature of God

    i think that we shouldn't let truth be hidden from us by people who want to interpret things their own way but should seek where we can find and accept truth as that which is most consistent...not looking at any individuals, but looking at the truth
    and thanks for you research, you are digging wells that will just bring forth more water/truth
    peace
    blak
     
  4. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    thanxs for the comments
     
  5. goraddy

    goraddy Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We will break this down as well. There are various trinity's in Kemet.

    Hotep
     
  6. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    True Gorady. How was your trip in Egypt? I want to see a report on it!
     
  7. goraddy

    goraddy Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    AACOOLDRE:

    the Trip to Kemet was lovely! I am trying to organize my pics in a logical format before I share them with everyone. but i will provide a more detailed analysis for you and other enlightened brothers and sisters before everyone else.

    Hotep
     
  8. the_story

    the_story Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    blakrok

    i am glad that u liked ur trip, i have always wanted to go there to see the sights, glad u had fun,
     
  9. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Exactly...
     
  10. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    "LET US MAKE MAN..."

    J. R. Davis

    Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

    To Whom was God speaking? Was the Father speaking to the Son? Or was the Son speaking to the Father? Was it the Holy Ghost speaking to the "other two"? Is there a proper interpretation of this verse which does not divide God into separate persons?

    The scripture plainly states in Deut. 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" And in Eph. 4:5, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism,".

    "God," in Genesis chapter one, comes from the Hebrew, "Elohim."

    Note the comment from the Ryrie Study Bible, "Elohim, a generic term for deity as well as a proper name for the true God. It is used of pagan gods (Gen. 31:30; Ex. 12:12), angels (Ps. 8:5), men (Ps. 82:6), and Judges (Ex. 21:6), though most frequently of the true God. Its basic meaning is "strong one, mighty leader, supreme Deity." The form of the word is plural, indicating plentitude of power and majesty and allowing for the NT revelation of the triunity of the Godhead."

    It should be noted, the more knowledgeable advocates of the triune doctrine do not often use Genesis 1:26 to further the Trinitarian suggestion, but merely indicate an allowance for the doctrine in a "New Testament revelation." Perhaps it is difficult for them to reconcile who is speaking to whom in Genesis 1:26, since a purely Trinitarian defense of this scripture may indicate tritheism rather than co-subsistance.

    H. C. Leupold, a staunch Trinitarian, somewhat angrily declares in his commentary ‘Exposition of Genesis’, "The hortative ‘Let us make,’ is particularly striking because it is plural. Though almost all commentators of our day reject the view that this is to be explained in connection with the truth of the Holy Trinity and treat this so-called Trinitarian view as a very negligible quantity, yet, rightly considered, this is the only view that can satisfy."

    Leupold continues, "K. C. Koenig (another commentator who is Trinitarian), may brush it aside with the very briefest remark to the effect that ’the number three cannot be expressed by the plural,’ yet he like many others labors under a misunderstanding of the Trinitarian view.’"

    Watch out when Trinitarians disagree on their own doctrine. The fur may fly! Perhaps the "misunderstanding" is not of the Trinity itself, but of the very nature of God.

    Leupold then continues, "Those that hold that a reference to the Trinity is involved do not mean to say that the truth of the of the Holy Trinity is here fully and plainly revealed." Then Leupold confesses, "But they do hold that God speaks out of the fulness of His powers and His attributes in a fashion which man could never employ."

    So, we see that Elohim refers not to the Trinity in three persons, but to the fulness of the Godhead as one God, manifested in the fulness of His powers and attributes, both moral and natural.

    Ryrie in his Study Bible points out, "Vs. 1:26, us . . . our are plurals of majesty. Image . . . likeness are interchangeable terms (Gen. 5:3) indicating that man was created in a natural and moral likeness to God. When he sinned, he lost the moral likeness, which was his sinlessness, but the natural likeness of intellect, emotions, and will he still retains (cf. Gen. 9:6; James 3:9)."

    Matthew Henry Commentary says, "Man was to be a creature different from all that had been hitherto made. Flesh and spirit, heaven and earth, must be put together in him. God said, ‘Let us make man.’ Man, when he was made, was to glorify the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Into that great name we are baptized, for to that great name we owe our being. It is the soul of man that especially bears God’s image."

    It is amazing how close some Trinitarians come to Oneness doctrine and baptismal formula.

    From the above comments we should understand that God, in Genesis chapter one, was a Spirit. "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24). Also understand that God, as a Spirit, had no flesh and bones. Note the words of Jesus, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39.

    The question arises, how could God come to earth and redeem mankind on the cross of Calvary when He had no body to be crucified? The answer was to beget a body of flesh on earth. How? Through the virgin birth by Mary of the One named Jesus...Emmanuel...God with us. Matt. 1:23, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." This body born in Bethlehem was a male child, a son, the Son or Body of God.

    Where was the Father? He was in Heaven, but was also in Christ.

    Note II Cor 5:19, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."

    Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.

    Also 1 Tim 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..."

    Where was the Holy Ghost? He also was in Christ. Why and how? Because God is One.

    One God and One Person. The One and the Same. Inseparable. Not co-equal with other persons but One and only One. One Person. Jesus is the Father. Jesus is the Son. Jesus is the Holy Ghost. Elohim - all that God is. The fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus Christ. Colossians 2:9 declares plainly, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Ryrie comments on this verse, "In Jesus Christ, deity (the divine attributes and nature) dwelt in His earthly body—a strong statement of the deity and humanity of the God-man."

    So why say "us" and not "me"? (Gen.1:26).

    God needed an image after which to mold the first man, Adam. That image was Jesus Christ. Romans 5:14, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." God looked into the future and saw Jesus (the one that was to come) and formed Adam after that image. Therefore God said, "let us make man in our image:" so that man would possess the spiritual or moral attributes of God, as well as the physical or natural attributes of God in flesh, Jesus Christ. Thusly man is not a spirit being only, but a physical being as well. Body, soul, and spirit. (1 Thes. 5:23). If God had made man in his image (spirit) only, then man would be spirit only.

    Note Gen 1:27, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." It is interesting to see verse 27 saying that God created man in his own image, not their own image. The clarification has already been made and understood in verse 26.

    Consider Hebrews 1:2-3, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,..."

    God looked into the future by His foreknowledge and saw His Son, the body that would redeem the world. That body was the flesh of God. God fashioned Adam after that body so that man would not just be a spirit as God is a spirit, but would possess physical attributes as well.

    Therefore God said, "Let us...". Spirit and flesh. Created in God’s own image.

    Man will now possess the moral (spiritual) and natural attributes of His Father the Creator, God.

    Note Col. 1:15 as it refers to Jesus, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

    So, Who created man? He? Them? They? Ease the confusion. Believe in only One Creator. The "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. 4:6).

    Col. 1:16 refers to Jesus, saying "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

    Also note Isaiah 44:24, "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

    Are there "three persons" in the Godhead or "three titles" for one person? A man can be a husband to his wife, a son to his father, and a father to his son. Is he three persons? Or is he is one person with three titles? He will relate to his wife in one manner. He will treat his son in a different manner. He will behave to his father in yet another manner. Yet he is still only one person. One person with an identifying name.

    God is also one. One with three different manners or modes of operation.

    One with three different titles or offices. One person with an identifying name, the name Jesus. However, He is the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost. Three offices and manners of manifestations. Yet, the one and only God.

    God manifest Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.

    Jesus told his disciples he would be leaving them in the physical manifestation they see Him in, but He would not leave them comfortless. He said He would send another comforter to them, the Holy Spirit. This comforter would abide with them forever. Jesus then said, "I will come to you." (John 14:16-18). God now would benefit mankind by His indwelling Spirit.

    He does not vacate one office to fill another, but is always completely and fully God.



    http://www.apostolic.edu/biblestudy/files/letusmak.htm
    . The same Person, but different modes of operation.
     
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