Black People : IS THERE ROOM IN HIPHOP FOR THE ELDERS???

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Isaiah, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Actually, this question is part of a larger question I have about the presence of "elders" in the live of young people, but the title of the thread, I thought, might draw young and older people into the conversation...

    Firstly, unlike the musical culture of generations gone by, HIPHOP music seems made EXCLUSIVELY for the young... It is made, for the most part, exclusively by the young, so there is little thought about elders in the music... In seems like a reflection of the divide between us, and our young people... My question is, is there anyway in which that divide can be bridged??? Is it going to be necessary for "elders" to actually make HIPHOP music - which is highly unlikely - or are we to encourage young people to actually make more music that considers, and reaches out to elders???

    On the part of elders, is there a place where we begin to reach to young people by making a more concious effort to understand their music by better understanding THEM??? I know that appears a rhetorical question, but clearly it is not, because we are pretty quick to citicize the youth for what we feel are their transgressions... It seems we don't understand where all of this violence, anger, and mysogyny in the music comes from, but a closer look might reveal that our lack of a presence in their lives has caused the aforementioned feelings...

    So, again, I would ask the young people, is there a place for Us OLD FOLKS in your lives, and just how can we bring that about??? What would THAT entail??? Let's brainstorm...


    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  2. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The first thing we need to do as AfroAmericans is "stabilize" our culture.


    You talk to people from Senegal or Kenya or Pakistan or Japan and they have the same type of music and traditions reaching back for centuries.
    Both the old and the young understand what's expected, what's right and wrong, and there is no dispute among them.


    Our culture, music, dress, slang, ect changes nearly ever 10 years and there's a constant separation and division not only between the old and young but even within the same generation.

    We're spinning out of control.


    I'm not saying we should hinder progress, but we should develop a set style of music, dress, morality, and food preparation....and STICK WITH IT.
     
  3. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Well... I know people living in the 70s aren't 'elders', but when I listen to that type of music along with music from earlier than that it is a heck of a lot better than what we have today.

    However, I do not believe it is the style that is bad. Some have even argued that the style is us subconsciously going back to our African style of music. Whether true or not, I believe the detriment lie in the lyrics. If the lyrics could purport positive things (like the music in earlier days did), then the youth wouldn't be bombarded with so much negative imagery in their subconscious mind.
     
  4. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm in my late 20s so I'm not removed from AfroAmerican youth, I'm apart of them; which is why I can say without a doubt that most of the new fads are based on sloppiness and ignorance.
    Not true style and fashion.



    Look how some bruthas wear their pants sagging so low they have to rock from side to side when they walk.
    Long coats and t-shirt with short pants around thier knees give them a long back--stubby legged "ape" look.

    White men wear tight jeans trying to show off what little butt they got, we're trying to cover ours up and hide it.

    Check out how rappers and other hip-hop artists stopped break dancing and started huddling together in groups jumping up and down and slinging thier arms.
    Acting just like apes.

    We got loud but we never did that in high-school, it started with Crunk and spread to other genres of hiphop.
    I remember them No Limit soldiers used to come on televison bouncing and rocking from side to side while grunting and saying "Uhhhhhhhhh..nah nah nah nah"

    Now so many hiphop artists are making their voices gruff and grumbly.





    The ignorance comes in the fact that most of our youth don't even know where these habits come from.


    The baggy pants come from belts being taken away from inmates at correctional facilities.


    The bushy hair styles and braids come from people who couldn't afford decent fades so had to control thier hair or let it grow until they could trim it.

    For the last 10 years or so bruthas been standing around rubbing thier bellies in public.
    They just don't know.
    For a young man to stand around on street corners with his shirt raised rubbing on his belly is actually a custom Brazilian male prostitutes started to beckon for clients.

    Now they're wearing "Gorilla Unit" t-shirts by 50Cent.


    They swear all of us are so silly we can't see the plot to portray us as animals.

    I peeped game YEARS ago..........
     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    naw, young people don't want to hear nothing from us.
    they think they know it all and they think they should be teaching us not the other way around.
    it's hopeless.
     
  6. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yeah, but brother Dual, I am searching for an in here, and you're basically telling me as an older brother that such an in is virtually impossible...

    As a younger generation man, how can we elders be better able to relate to our younger people, so that we can begin to have a greater influence on their lives??? It seems that we've been so long distanced from our youth that the damage is so extensive it is irreparable... The whole baggy pants style of dress is straight outta the joint - as were the loose laces I wore in my addidas in the early 1980's... The difference was that when I got hip to what the science was about that, I was no slave to fashion... I immediately distanced myself from that garbage...

    I sense in young people today, a desire to belong to something much larger than themselves... I don't see them as "walking alone" in this world, and really doing their own thing... It's like its mad dangerous NOT to conform to the norm... Like I recently read a story about life in New Orleans 9th Ward, where if you're perceived to be too "clean" you got to be an informant...and to be an informant is to set yourself up to be assassinated in this community... Hence, the crazy high homicide rate in NOLA's 9th Ward... Well, I see that here as well... Not the wild homicidal ignorance, but the cautiousness of our young people... It pains me... It seems like these kids just want to be assured that the world is at peace with them being themselves... That pain I feel has caused me to pose this question, because I, too, am confused...



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  7. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Isaiah


    The first thing that must be pointed out is that you my brother are NOT an elder.
    And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

    You may be older...or younger depending on who you're comparing yourself too....but if you're around 45 years of age you are in no way an elder yet.
    I got cousins around your age I still slap box with.

    James sounds like he's in his late 50s...maybe he's borderline "elder".

    But a Black man's bones aren't even set and his intellect hasn't matured until he's atleast 40.




    As far as elders are concerned, there is nothing they can do to get respect or get next to the youth if they haven't done it already.

    Once you're an elder, the only thing you can do is offer advice or give orders....but you have to rely on the youth to enforce it.
    And those youth have to have enough love, loyalty, and respect for you to carry them out.

    In my masjid, the older men have the wisdom to point out suspicious looking cats snapping pictures and behaving oddly, but they expect us young bruthas to confront them and deal with them as necessary.


    Elders got respect for what they did in their youth such as building cities/villages, leading revolutions, or valiant fighting.

    Because of how this society is set up, most of the elders in our community....Black or white...have done neither.
    So there is no real reason for them to be respected by the youth.

    There used to be a time you could rely on elders for moral decisiveness and support to make the best judgements during disputes.

    But in an age where men in their 60s and 70s are taking viagra, dressing in baggy jeans, and wearing earrings themselves trying to compete with these young boys....it only increases hostility between the two generations.

    Plus, a lot of Black men are extremely angry at the older generation because most of them were abandoned by thier fathers or grew up seeing their mothers being abused.
    So when they see older Black men they either are indifferent or see an enemy.




    Now that's how most youth see it, doesn't mean I feel that way.

    Personally, I still have a certain amount of respect for ANY Black man who has managed to stay alive in this society over 40 years.
    He couldn't have made it that far being a d*mn fool.
     
  8. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    SOME YOUNGER FOLKS MIGHT CONSIDER THERIOUS AN ELDER LOL. AS I APPROACH THIRTY I AM LESS IN TUNE WITH THE "PARTY AND BULLSH*t" RAP. imo ONE OF THE BEST LYRICISTS AND PRODUCERS TODAY KRS1 IS IN HIS FORTIES. i BELIVE THE ELDERS COULD GET WITH GROUPS LIKE THE ROOTS BECAUSE THEIR SUBJECT MATTER IS FOR AN OLDER AUDIENCE.

    I WOULD SUGGEST TO OLDER CATS AN ALBUM BY AN EMCEE NAMED SHEIK TITLED "AFTER TAXES". MOST YOUTH SIMPLY LOVE MUSIC NO MATTER WHO ITS FROM. AS A KID I LIKED GEORGE CLINTON, JAMES BROWN, TEMPTATIONS, ARETHA FRANKLYN, JACKIE WILSON. MAINLY BECAUSE THE ELDERS IN MY FAM WAS LIKE BOY WE WAS DOING THAT WAY BEFORE YALL. BUT ALSO CUZ IT WAS JUST GOOD MUSIC.

    I THINK YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE TO LET CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN NATURALLY NOT BE FORCED TO LISTEN TO SOMETHING THEYRE NOT THINKING OF AT THE TIME. tHAT REMINDS THEM TO MUCH OF SCHOOL, WHICH MANY HATE. NOT HATING KNOWLEDGE BUT HATING THE WAY YOUR FORCE FED INFO YOU COULD CARE LESS ABOUT.

    I ALSO THINK HIP HOP THAT ELDERS WOULD DIG NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN WILL NOT BE FOUND ON THE MAINSTREAM AIR WAVES. MY OLDER BROTHERS AND SISTER GET THE WRONG IDEA WHEN THAT LAFFY TAFFY COMES ON LOL.

    ON THE OTHER HAND YOUNG PEOPLE ARE ON THEIR OWN MISSION, MOST OF WHAT YOU SAY WILL FALL ON DEF EARS, THEY HAVE TO LEARN ON THEIR OWN
    GOOD POST I
     
  9. Froggy1

    Froggy1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    well coming from a youngster or whatever im designated as, there is room in hiphop fro the elders, cause a lot of older dudes (to me right now older dudes is 28 and up) are really ill rappers rakim Public Enemy GZA Common etc etc and for folks who're at that age and into hiphop, I can understand why they dislike the party and bull**** part of the genre, a lot of ppl dislike it for the ignorance it displays and lack of lyricality, so yea, the older set can get down with this generation, since this generations MC's aint stepped up to take over from GEN NEXT (tupac, redman keith murray boot camp click nas wu tang jay z biggie, everybody who came out in the early nineties almost)
     
  10. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    KYUKYKIYRYI MESSAGE DELETED.
     
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