Black Relationships : Is there any hope for Ebony male/female unions?

Discussion in 'Black Relationships' started by Nia Maishani, Sep 3, 2003.

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Is There Hope for Black Male/Female Unions?

  1. Apparently, there is little to no hope; the situation has gone to the dumps.

    9 vote(s)
    20.9%
  2. There is MUCH hope; I and/or others I know are in black-on-black Bliss.

    25 vote(s)
    58.1%
  3. I haven\'t figured this one out yet, either.

    9 vote(s)
    20.9%
  1. Nia Maishani

    Nia Maishani Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Either our standards are set too high (not higher than we can personally fill), we're in the wrong places at the wrong times, or it is a pipedream to maintain faith that SOME Ebony men out there are going to appreciate and respect an Ebony woman who is fully up to the challenge of building something meaningful and establishing & perpetuating Ebony-on-Ebony Love.

    I know of too many of us who have given (or are presently giving) our all, only to be betrayed, underappreciated, taken for granted, backstabbed, dishonored, disgraced--you name the negative return--by the men in whom we place our faith.

    What has gone wrong with Ebony men? Even those who many regard as respectable individuals, those who are supposed to be "conscious", those who are "supposed" to be pro-black, pro-family, you name it, seem to turn out to be impostors. This has been my recent experience, and the experience of more than one sisterfriend.

    How does a black man, reared by a black woman (and her black man) just remorselessly take advantage of the interest of HIS black woman, and attempt to degrade her in return for her good efforts?

    Do black women go too far to please their men or something? Do good "girls" TRULY finish last?
     
  2. Nia Maishani

    Nia Maishani Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    If you vote, please justify your answer by submitting a reply to this thread. Thank you.
     
  3. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ?
    Well, since as a community we only marry outside of our race about 10% of the time... I wouldn't be too worried; or rather should I worry at all?

    Nothing is wrong with Black Women--- we are just more conscious, and those of us who have reared Black males-- we have either loved them too much, which I think happens most of the time, or we have loved them too little...

    I feel that many black women have spoiled black men, and once they get out there and find other black women who are not having it, they have to go out and find women who will cater to that need -- to be spoiled-- and many times that is outside; but then that has so many pitfalls, and according to issues of Ebony approx. 2 mionths agao, some men who run away find themselves lost... but then again, that was the reports in Psychology Today too...

    Now, Black women are finding themselves going outside too...

    So, really I do not know??? I think that you should love who loves you... And I know that most Black Men and Black Women are looking for each other.
     
  4. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well said happy, I agree 100%. Some of the black men that Nia mentions, are raised by black women that do a great dis-service to black boys, by not teaching to be responsible the way many girls are raised.

    Naturally, when these boys become "men" they really don't know what it means to maintain and themselves by themselves.

    If you cannot be a self-contained man, what can you truly offer a full grown black woman.... brotha?
     
  5. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sister Nia Maishani,

    I think that the struggle for freedom includes all aspects of our lives. And because we are still in the process of God-Consciousness, black-on-black Bliss may be the ultimate goal, but I have continuous hope that mutual PEACE OF MND AND PROGRESSIVE LIVING is attainable now. This is what we must yearn for in our selves and our mates, let alone raise in our sons and daughters.

    There is an old saying,
    “Mothers love their sons and raise their daughters”

    There may be a lot of truth to that. But I don’t think you can ever love any one too much, though you may be misguided in their upbringing. I use misguided in a loving and respectful way, because Black mothers understand the devouring lion that wait on their sons and they may have a tendency to cling instead of teach. This doesn’t mean that Black men are not also sometimes very or overly protective of their sons as well as their daughters. If you don’t have that natural balance male/female input sometimes ideals about relationships and life are developed in a vacuum.

    Now the ideal that Black women are, for the most part, more conscious than Black men may be going a little to far, (happy69) in a proper analysis of why some Black men don’t get it when it comes to relationships, especially those who seem to be projecting a sense of awareness. Sometimes sisters get caught up in the outward cultural adornment of these brothers (i.e. dreads, garb, African jewelry and so forth) as if this is a sign of consciousness or they like that superficial Afro-hip cosmic talk without checking the brother’s depth of wisdom, knowledge or understanding of cultural and/or spiritual matters. Some sisters seek out brothers that are lacking, so they can only teach, instead of learn (and I emphasize SOME).

    There is a difference in a GOOD man and a righteous man. For, another old saying said, “the road to hell is paved with GOOD intentions”. A righteous man will not always say what you want to hear and he will not always do what you want him to do, out of convenience. Paraphrasing what one of the teachers of old, once said, “A false prophet will tell you what your itching ears want to hear”. Also a righteous man knows his sense of RIGHT is only exemplified by his actions and not just by his words. As strange as it seems, honesty and truth sometimes have a hard road to travel.

    So sister we all must keep our hope and faith, for, there are no choices, but death.

    And our demise, because of misunderstandings, is unacceptable.

    PEACE AND LOVE
    ASHE
     
  6. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Cultural Adornment!

    Do you think that I think that consciuosness equals cultural adornment! Nothing a person says or does usually can get to me, but to suggest that consciuosness is an outside "thing" is just insulting.

    I am a consciuos black woman, and have never and probably will never be "culturally adorned"... yes on some people it looks beautiful, but it is not me.... and there are many black males who are culturally adorned--as you say it, and don't have a sister on their arm, or their mother's who have sacrificed for them on their minds.

    Many Black Men are spoiled... that is a fact, not all, maybe not even most--- but many are. Life is hard for us all in the black community--- not at the same levels are as intense--and this is no excuse for us not to use or heads and think out what we have to do to continue progressing... so of us are getting it...
    It has only been a recent phenomenon in the black community where our girls are demanding the same treatment as the boys...and they should...Girls are no longer spending their weekends cleaning house and cooking, while boys spend their days playing ball and club hopping---
    I advocate making your child help with the chores, and if you work around the clock being the provider, yes they should (if old enough) clean house, and do some light cooking...both the boys and the girls....

    I always remember this as I was growing up, I would see black mothers walking from grocery stores, pushing baskets filled with food, with the girl walking right behind her, and the son would be out playing ball or riding around in his car--- I'm talking late 70's and 80's here-- when Blacks fell into the majority society ways...raise your daughter, love your son....with a twist; whites sent their males to college, and married off their daughters, or sent them out to do menial work (if poor)....blacks sent their daughters off to college (it does not mean that they were helping to pay for it or trade school)...or the girl took a menial job, and the boy got a car...it was not necessary that he got a job...

    It is a general truth of how things were and still sometimes are... even Black men have taken notice, some like Blair Underwood said, okay it is up to us to correct this, meaning black men... some have said that Black women should not have spoiled them....

    Most of this so-called division b/t black males and females is just more hype to keep us apart... if you love your people, if you want to see the community progress, if you feel that you are a vital part of making things happen and do-- mentor, tutor, give to organizations that help the community, teach a skill.... THEN WHO YOU ARE SLEEPING WITH AND WHO YOU ARE LIVING WITH DOES NOT HAVE A THING TO DO WITH IT...

    We should shun those, either female or male, who feel the need to shun us.... and not let them back in!

    Oh, and as for the sisters... go out there, and you know that it is truth... what the brothers may miss, someone else is ready to pick it up---then Black Males have the nerver to complain.

    Peace!

    p.s. I have been trying to dread my hair for a few months, but it will not lock... well, that does it for my cultural consciousness
     
  7. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  8. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Happy69,

    Thank you for your comments.
    But I need to respond.

    I don’t know where you grew up, especially your reference to the 70’s and 80’s. But I know the way I was raised and many other Black men at that time. When we were coming up and still at home, it was almost impossible to obtain any luxury items, even if you had a job, especially a car. My mother didn’t even have a car! Even with jobs, we were first supposed to volunteer our income to the well being of the household. My mothers motto was: “My money is my money and your money is my money” and we enjoy the fact that we could contribute to someone who was working so hard for our happiness and survival. We could not squander our money on expensive shoes, clothes and jewelry. A matter of fact, some guys started street hustling and stealing to obtain these things. But stealing in my family was a cardinal sin, no matter how poor we were.

    Many times my mother would get off work and stop by the grocery store and then call us on the pay phone, and then we would have to walk to the store and carry the groceries back home (regardless of distant). This was the “boys” in the family job.
    We had to be protectors, repairmen, lawn men, we mopped, washed, cooked, you name it. Interesting enough we were on loan many times for menial task to all the men and women in the extended family, because we were YOUNG AND STRONG AND RESPECTFUL.

    My mother loved us intensely. But that didn’t stop us from hard work and manual labor. Our mother demanded us to be MEN AND GET THE JOB DONE. All the men in our life, even though my mother was single, were positive role models. Believe me, no players, pretty boys or bums ever step through the door of that woman’s house. In that time, women were more cautious about the men they allowed to be around their children.

    Sister, my comments directed toward you in the previous post were reflecting the statement,

    “Nothing is wrong with Black Women--- we are just more conscious,”

    This is an arrogant statement that cannot be quantified. The truly conscious wouldn’t use the determiner “more” to describe their state of being, especially in a judgmental kind of way. Consciousness and displaced ego can’t go hand in hand, especially as it applies to black struggle and reconciliation among Black men and women. I have no problem with extremely conscious Black women. I think some of the greatest books to delve into the spirit and mind/consciousness were written by Black women i.e., Marimba Ani, Francis Cress Welsing, Iyanla Vanzant and the list goes on.

    Also that article that you referred to is more about hurt and destruction, than victory. He refers to, “the embattled 'family' champion, the black female.” Here we are again patronizing the demise of the black woman and family. This type of grandiose de-feminization cannot be impervious to stereotypical visions the media has historically displayed. “Champion”; This sound more like HBO Boxing, than praise, for the strong effeminate Black women that I know and remember! The writer of that article has a defeatist attitude. But hey, I’m not here to add more strife to the plight of Black women, then that which already exist. Sister if you embrace the philosophy and analysis of that article; so be it. I just hope that you are successful in all that you pursue, including your locks.

    PEACE AND LOVE. ASHE
     
  9. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ashe-
    I think I stated that I was making generalizations... I do try to be specific... but I will respond...
    Black women were "defeminized" from the day they were brought here... in this society we are either overly sexual or asexual...
    While studies have been done on White women, accordingly today a White woman gets beat up or worse, approximately every 8 seconds of the day.... and while from just my eyeballing, I think that it happens too, at a comparable rate in you so-called
    "people of color" communities too... but I have never thought or think that it happens as much with Black women... I could be wrong.... but it happens, as does rapes, and other kinds of abuses, and death....
    I said all that to paint the picture that Black Women have had to be strong.... and had to fight back with our own men and with society--- out of necessity... we were never able to aspire to that "myth of true womanhood..." we were never able to be the delicate flowers... we had to work, and we had to go along with the split-ups with our males to feed our kids (welfare), and go out and work in White Folks houses and rear there children; and yet trying to rear our own.... We had to; and it wasn't all a bad thing... When White Women started hollering about working, and going to school--- we were already doing that... When they started hollering about having a more equal role in their households....hell, we had done that and some more.... and still do.... While others are able to sit at home, and rear the kids, and be pretty... and on the flip-side be the targets of abuse because they are not seen as contributing, they are seen as having it easy, etc....etc...etc...
    Again, I am talking in general terms here... my mother never had to work, and my father has been dead for 11 years...and she still doesn't... But, why should she? Those 45 years they were married before his death... she kept the house, she reared all 7 of us, she had to take his weekly pay-- pay the bills, get the things that we needed-- something that one of us had wanted, and hope that she could have a little left over to put away for hard times, etc... she worked right along with him...

    Ashe, I was bought up in workingclass to middleclass communities... and those are the things that I saw. Not everyone, not us... we all had to get our own cars etc... and did... but even in our household... my brothers could get away with "studying" all day... or fixing on cars, or hanging out.... and we, the girls could do it too--- after we had gotten the house cleaned or cooked.... I am the youngest and I stopped that early... I was a Tomboy and wasn't having it--after a certain age---mind you.

    What would happen if girls and young women who are ill-prepared and not ready to have kids; but find themselves pregnant---what would happen if a law was passed that said that the guy had to take the baby and raise them...

    As for the article-- sure you can see it that way; and of course you are correct that some of what is implied is stereotypical; but as it was in the past, and as it is evident today some stereotypes are more truth than not.

    It is black men who usually reinforce the stereotypes anyway-- what is it when you get on tv--- and monkey for the man, and say dumb stuff like, "I don't like black women... they got attitudes..."
    Well we better. Then, as soon as, they finish monkeying white men and others get their laugh, they kick them in the ***.... even white women are beginning to see that something does not compute--and all I say to them is you can hav'em... because usually it's some weakassed "brother" who can't even generate a pot to piss in --as the old folk say-- or someone so mixed up, it looks as if they are on the brink of cracking up...
    And for Black Women--- it seems to be turning a little, because it is beginning to be recognized, not only by white men, but again, Asian men, and others---what Black women have, and what they offer.... even the low-class racists have the nerve to brag about their black wives....shall I name them for you? need websites?

    But what is never relayed to the society is that of these heroic black women rearing children alone.... only a little under half of them are in fact living below the poverty level in this country--- that is magical if you ask me--- I couldn't do it.... some of them are doing it with all the **** piled on us as a community--some of it us (60%) and some of it society (40%)--- Again, my opinion.

    Look if Black Women and Men wanted to get together nothing is stopping that... women should find someone who wants the same things that they want; they should start to demand that they get marriage before other things.... and since fairytales weren't made for us, we should not delve into them... we have to work, that is not a bad thing... even the sisters who can find a rich black man... please go and get your education, start a business... because again... happily ever after; today is just a pretty phrase.

    That is it.
     
  10. ifasehun

    ifasehun Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    1. exactly what is "ebony" ?? ...lol

    2. why do we torture ourselves so? do you hear chinese people asking "is there any hope for the chinese man and woman?" what are we idiots or something? or course black men and women love and continue to love. we're human arent we? ...this is silly.
     
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