Black People : Is the Nguzo Saba just for Kwanzaa?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Natinr, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Natinr

    Natinr Banned MEMBER

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    Or should we be concerned about these 7 principles on a daily basis?
     
  2. Natinr

    Natinr Banned MEMBER

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    Reason for this post is to see wether or not we

    are still inerested in maintainig these beautiful and important,
    principles that could take us healfully and prosperously into the next mellenium and then some
     
  3. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    another touchy subject...

    I have nothing against the principles of the Nguzo Saba, in theory. However, I must view the Nguzo Saba in the historical and ideological context in which it was founded by Dr. Mualana Karenga, and that is in the context of KAWAIDA.


    From a historical context this means within the framework in which the Nguzo Saba was created, and that is in the Black Arts Movement and Cultural Nationalism.

    I am a product of the Black Arts Movment but because of a heavily influenced Black Panther Party orientation am more "Revolutionary Nationalist" and taking this further to Kwame Ture's philosophy of Pan-Africanism.

    As a former BSU/ASU activist from UCLA the struggles to build the BSU/ASU into a statewide Black Student Alliance, I then have to look at the effectiveness of Kawaida and the US organization in this process, as well as the effectiveness of Dr. Karenga's influence on the Black Agenda and Black United Front of Los Angeles (BUFLA).

    If we take the nearly 40 years history of this relationship I then have to look at the effectiveness of Cointelpro in its attacks of the Black Power Movement, Black Revolution and African Student Movement.

    There can be no doubt that without Kawaida philosophy there would be no Nguzo Saba nor would there be a Kwanzaa Festival.

    My question then is how effective has KAWAIDA been in advancing the cause of Afrikan Liberation, witihin a historical context?

    I was trained as a youth at the same Aquarius Center in which Kawaida was formulated in the 60s. So, I ask this question with a clear ideological perspective having been formulated within the context of the African Liberation struggle.

    Peace.
     
  4. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Understanding Kawaida

    Let me elaborate upon this further.

    http://www.africawithin.com/karenga/karenga_books.htm

    Kawaida=Egyptian Maatian tradition.

    Thus, the Nguzo Saba itself is based upon the precepts of MAAT. We can view it from a historical context as the CORE of this "modern" tradition based on the ancient text.

    I will suggest that at this point in Our Story that it may be best to view the Nguzo Saba within the entire context of MAAT.

    Don't throw away the Baby, but keep it closer within the Womb from which it was born. And throw away the bath water along with the blood which has been spilled.

    Remember Bunchy and John Huggins!
     
  5. Natinr

    Natinr Banned MEMBER

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    With all due respect

    To be ignorant of the names and birth places of your Queens great grand parents, does not mean you love her any less. or your children.
    To handle my accounting books I don't need to go back to the Kemmetic teachers of pythagoras I just DO THE MATH

    That is why i would like to concentrate on each of the 7 princples which I did not list so as not to insult the intelligence of the board members and viewers.
    I humbley believe once we have established these principles on a visible and tangible scale in our community then we can talk all we want about the construction of the plane that has taken us from here to there.

    Francis cress Welsing said we talk about a problem,
    and just before we get to a solution we start talking about the problem again!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I was addressing your question...

    You asked "Is the Nguzo Saba just for Kwanzaa".

    My answer is NO.

    It is a part of Kawaida philosophy.

    And must be looked at within that context.

    If you choose to take it outside of that context "More Power to You".

    If you are postiting the Nguzo Saba as a "solution" what I am asking is what has it SOLVED thus far?
     
  7. Natinr

    Natinr Banned MEMBER

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    What has it solved thus far!!!!!

    You know that is realy........so let me see if I can follow
    your reasoning,
    if the MAJORITY of Black folks have not followed the words of Malcom X then those words of wisdom are of no use?
    or the Pert Em Heru?
    or Angela Davis?
    orFannie Lou Hammer?,
    or our African spirituality?,
    or Amos Wilson?,
    or John Henrik Clarke?
    or Marcus Garvey?
    ,so you will say what have they solved today!!??!!

    ............so if a doctor prescribes a life style change, diet and herbal protocol for a patient and they do not follow it you blame theDOCTOR?????????????????????????????????????????????????????or worse yey the cure??????????????????????????

    Because we colectively have not applied the principle of
    1. UNITY; that means it has no value????????
    Because we have not collectively applied the principle of
    2. SELF DETERMINATION
    that means it has no value?
    Because we have not applied the principle of
    3. COLLECTIVE WORK AND RESPONSIBILITY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES, you are saying that has no value?
    Because w have not applied the principle of
    4. COOPEATIVE ECONOMICS that means it is of no value?
    Because we have not set forth a national Black agenda of
    5. PURPOSE that strategy means nothig to you?
    Because we have not used our
    6.CREATIIVITY to create a national safetynet for those in need,that quality of mind and spirit is useless?
    Then if one believes that,
    then I can see were ones
    7. FAITH in our people,
    are and our struggle.
     
  8. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    At no point have I said it has no value

    I said NO its principle do not apply just for Kwanzaa.

    But I will say this

    "Thought without Practice is empty"
    Kwame Nkrumah

    If we do not apply these principles in our daily lives then yes they are proven useless. Otherwise they will lead us to African liberation.

    For example, since you mention brother Malcolm. If he says its either the Ballot or the Bullet and some of us use neither then what value is their in a speech?

    If Dr. King tells us to judge a man by the content of his character and not the color of his skin then we vote for a Black man solely because he's black, then King's speech holds no value.

    To the above, yes, I must ask "What have they solved today". And this has been a topic of discussion here before. You speak of solutions but you are not the first here to have done so. If our movement have failed to Liberate us then we must ask why and look at what mistakes have been made in the past so they can be corrected at preset and in the future.

    As far as the Nguzo Saba is concerned you can view it in isolation from Kawaida (Maatian philosphy) if you so choose. I dont elect to do so. Ujima and Ujamaa are specefically concepts that Maulana Karenga took from Julisu Nyerere's wrigins on African Socilaism and it was in that context that they have worked in Tanzania. In the context of re-constucting Tanzanian society. And at one time Karenga was speaking "African Socialism".

    If this then changes and Socialist philosophy is abandoned then how can one take Socialist principles and apply them within a capitalist framework?

    If Angela Davis teaches Revolutionary Black Nationalism one year then turns feminist and adopted the program of the CPUSA then yes I must question the value or effectiveness of her ideology.

    I do the same for every ideological question that is presented, within their proper historical context. If you choose to take a philosophy of of its proper context, isolate it and then apply it in another context you have the right to do so. I will leave you in peace to do your work.
     
  9. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One more point...


    What does hold value to me is not one's words ut their ACTIONS.

    Not their Faith [Imani] but the WORKS.

    Their DEEDS and accomplishments, not their theories.

    I will leave it at that. If the Nguzo Saba has PRACTICAL Value so be it.
     
  10. Natinr

    Natinr Banned MEMBER

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    We have no argument......

    It is just that we from the 70s to the present have been impotent in regards to the technology of social regeneration to counter the iLLUMINATI'S SOCIAL ENGINEERING OF OUR YOUTH
    My point is that if we can make these 7 principles the in thing in the hood instead of
    skull and bones, jewelry, and Scarface jackets, we can get somewhere!
    Something happened in Chicago were some of the street gangs, took on the image and mindset, proscribed in "The Spook Who Sat by the Door".
    The danger of the NOI to the devil was that they had the capacity to convert a thousand Big Reds into Giants in our community.
    The understanding of trends and fads is no small matter.
    They can build or destroy, they can heal or be nihilistic!
     
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