Black People Politics : Is Black nationalism a conservative idealogy?

abdurratln

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REGISTERED MEMBER
Feb 27, 2007
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Black nationalists etc.?!?

Past tense, as far as the typical black person etc. I come into contact with, also above and beyond this--'we need another group like the Panthers', no or few fond memories of their earlier contacts with the RNA etc

Flashforward and it is about whatver they feel about Jesse or Farrakan and nowadays Obama....


But Brother, that is the whole issue here. We are Africans. As such we can no longer afford to limit ourselves to parameters establsihed by the white power sturcture. The African Nation is a huge nation second only to the Chinese nation, perhaps. Within the African Nation are many, many great leaders, not just Jesse, Farakhan or Obama or any other personality limited to the USA or the African Diaspora in general. We need to learn to think big because our problems as a people are BIG. As Malcolm has made clear, we cannot solve our problems here in America without linking it to the problems of Africans everywhere. That is because the problem is America is the race problem. Therefore, for example, when Somali refugees come here we find ourselves concerned with the conflict in Somalia. Yet, the "black nationalists" seem to prefer to ignore this reality.

Take the economic problem for instance. The west can no longer use us as slaves to do the menial labor. Therefore, we are now left on our own to create jobs for our youth. How do we do that here in the Wilderness of North America? Again, we must deal with the land question. Africa has great strecthes of vacant under-utilized land that needs development. How do we develop it? One way would be to reclaim desert lands to grow food for sell in Asia. This way market forces would not impel Asians to seek resettlement in Africa in order to have access to land upon which to grow the food that they need.

This is only a start in thinking this thing through. But, I do not see any other way to proceed with it.

You wrote:

The youth have been deliberately confused and mis-led in order to prevent a "movement" from taking hold. But, just because mind control has been effective among the descendants of slaves in this country, it does not mean that there is no "movement". My point is the opposite has been true. The question is do we want to get engaged and involved in what is actually happening.

Chuck:

I agree in general...

I disagree about the specifics, i. e., since there was a brief rise of renewed black consciousness in the early nineties, which may or may not been related to the Million Man March scenario...

Now, the Million Man March is another symtom of the problem. We proposed an Economc Development Program at MMM. It was ignored. Why? How could they dare ignore a program on Economic Development in the 1990's no matter how imperfect it may have been?

This brings us to another related issue. The NOI refused to accpet a $1 billiion donation from an African country. Can you imagine all the good and evil that NOI could have done with $1 billion? But, they went and asked the white man if it was okay for them to accept the money. Of course the white man said no. What else could he have done? Now, look at what the white man is doing: the Clinton Foundation spends most its time beggimng for money in oil rich Africa.

Look. Why could not the NOI set up a bank account in Mexico City and just ignore the white man? There ain't a whole heck of a lot the white man could have done to prevent such a scenario. All that would have been required would have been to think outsise the box, think beyond the limits imposed on our minds by slavery, break out of the slave mentality of "black nationalism".


You wrote:

Take Zimbabwe. The young people there rose up and implemented Land Reform. Where were the American "black nationalists"? How many sent support to our brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe. We all know the answer.

Chuck:

Whatever we here did or didn't, it was up to the Zimbabweans to do for themselves...

True. And they did do and have done so. But, when all of the whites rallied together and ganged up on Zimbabwe, people were starving, diseaes broke out. And the white man thought he was sure to win the Struggle. But, what heppened is the Southern African Development Community (and our Chinese friends) stepped in and broke the sanctions. This just goes to prove that Pan-Africanism is the onluy solution in this modern world in which whites always unite aginst us while using divide and conquer tactics aagainst us.

I was intimately involved in the Struggle in Zimbabwe. I did not hide behind the fact that I had been born in the USA. Those were my brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe. And, they are your brothers and sisters, they are all of our brothers and sisters. What does "black nationalism" have to say about one brothes and sistersr suffering in Zimbabwe while others lives high on hog in Mississippi? Again, Pan-Africanism is the solution, not "black nationalism".

In every day practical terms, it is as simple as buying a Western Union money order and sending it to Africa, any part of Africa. That's Pan-Africanism, not "black nationalsim".

And the aftermath of their effors etc. were what?

Holla holla...

They implemented Land Reform and by doing so, they proved SADC to a viable and powerful new isntitution and instrument for Pan-Africanism. Right now, that part of Africa, including Zimbabwe, is leading the world in economic growth.

You wrote:

What about Sudan? Did the "black nationalists" support Africa's largest country against agression from the likes of Bill and Hilary Clinton? Absolutely not. Instead, we found the "black nationalists" in cahoots with the liberals such as the Clintons as they conspired to dismantle the Sudanese nation. And, the same is true in Somalia.

Chuck:

You're using the word 'liberal(ism)' a wee bit loosely...

http://www.*****************/forum/...liberalism-stokely-carmichael-kwame-ture.html

I prefer the word 'liberal/reformism', i. e., which also characterized LBJ'S 'GUNS AND BUTTER" approach, meant to appease the people on the homefront all the while advancing U. S. military involvement all over the globe...

LBJ was obviously aware of the growing opposition to U. S. military involvement via the Vietnamese Civil War etc.

So he either decided not to run for another term via an honest and sincere effort to bring about a cease fire---an/or to broker a face saving deal--which is why there remains a North and South Korea, thoug Nixon won over Humphey--and started up the whole sorry mess all over again-!

That's why 50, 000 U. S. troops wound up losing their lives (and countless numbers of Southeast Asian civilians)!

The point:

Putting forth the self serving agenda of the haves at the expense of the nation's have nots is a case study of why the nation is nowadays bogged down in conflicts thruout the so called Arab World...

So are you going to blame the 'black militants' for that too?

I sincerely hope not!

The "black nationalists"? Yes. We prevented USA from siding with Ian Smith and the apartheid regimes in southern Africa until they succeeded in breaking up the AAPRP. This happened in the 1990's. When that happened, the first thing that occured was Bill Clinton bombed Sudan. Where was the voice of protest from the "balck nationalsists"? There was none. Instead what we saw is the Unlce Toms in and around Howard University started spreading lies about "Ayrabs" killing "blacks". Most recently it got so bad and so stupid that a certain nitwit whose name I will not mention appealed us to protest against Mauritania making Arabic an official language. Get that. Mauritania is 98% Muslim. Every Muslim must use Arabic in order to Pray. Therefore, in Mauritania Arabic is a language to unite the nation. But, "black nationalsits" are only intersted in the racial twist and the religious and ethnic twist. They expect us to give a hoot about 2% "blacks" at the expense of 98% Muslims which includes blacks and everybody else. Insane.



You wrote:

In Somalia, the Clintons and the Bushes have managed to prevent a state from forming for 20 years. Where are the "black nationalists". Do the "black Nationalists" want to see Africa's greatest and most monolithic nation re-unite and become a world power? Or, do they prefer to see the "Gobal war against Islam" succeed in Somalia?

Chuck:

A visible and vocal though powerless black minority within a minority has no sayso over what the USA does anywhere...

A rich and power white minority within a white majority does!

Garbage! Every USA citizen has a voice. People may not want to hear it. But, it is a citizenship duty of every citizen to share with the body politic what he sincerely thinks. That way the whole body politic benefits whether they accept the opinion or not. But, it is inexcusable to keep quiet. That is what I was taught as student in the public schools during the Black Power Movement. And, I have tried to live by that ever since. I am not ashamed that I speak up when need be, I have sopken up in the past and if GOD Gives me the strength, I will speak up in the future. The Founding Fathers of USA Constitution deserves that much respect.

You wrote:

Let me down this down. As far as I am concerned I say to hell with Hilary and Bill Clinton and Johnny Carson and everybody else who does not have Africa's best intersts at heart.

Chuck:

Uh....

Bro...

As a now famous fictional sftv character would say about Johnny Carson:

"He's dead, Jim-!"

And as another one would say:

You must master control over your emotions...

Yeah, I can guess you're being rhetorical, but let's be as for real as we're able and willing to be...

Are you referring to Uncle Johnny? Actually, I thought I was being quite charitable. Comrade Bob Mugabe called him an idiot. And, I agree: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8137046.stm

You wrote:

The way I see it, when they hurt Africa, Africans in America feel the pain. So, if it means going against the Clinton wing of ther Dummy-cratic Party, so be it. What we really need is a politcal party that does not seek to compromise the best interests of Africans all over the world. This is what the AAPRP was menat to be. Do "black nationalists" support the AAPRP? What about the Popular Front for Pan-Africanism? What about the Front for the Unification & Development of Africa & Arabia? We all know the answers to the questions.

Chuck:

From my own earlier days as a young would be activist to the All African Peoples Revolutionary Party's efforts?

Let us admit that we did and do get sidetracked, i. e., because of the shortsightedness of a few--here--who were not truly in support of what African intellectuals and activists etc. were about--there...

Thing is:

That was then...

This is now...

So where do we go from here?

My and the and more to the point:

We must strive and try to go from the rhetorical to the realistic...

I. e., we must start fresh if not over, cope and deal in the midst of a core of field blacks, who've regressed and retreated back to what their black forebears used to survive and strive in the midst of a white racist culture , etc., as though what once worked for them can so easily work for their descendants, which anybody with active brain cells--e. g., about how this nation has gone from an industrial based economy to its presently challenged place in the midst of a global spanning/transnational based capitalist system, would by its nature relegate us all to the status of perpetual outcasts and/or permanent outsiders etc.

Simply put:

As regards the nation and world we now live in the midst of?

Ignorance ain't 'bliss'...

And if the truth hurts, as regards the lunacy ad naseum the Fifty's etc. put forth as the Gospel Truth (heck no), one day it will sell us free...

But the choice is ours...

:em0200:

My point is we must start by being honest with oursleves. I am sure you remember that an integral part of Democratic Cneralism is the principle of Criticism and Self-Criticism. It was when this process broke down in favor of liberalism that the AAPRP collapsed. In order to pick up the pieces and go in any direction whatsoever, we must self-criticize ourselves. That means asking ourselves where did we go wrong and why and whose fault is it. It is only from the point of Self-Criticism and Crititcism that we can go forward from here. If this does not occur, I honestly think that the radical Islamic Movement will take over and implement a program that many of us are opposed to. For the record, though, I am not all that opposed to it. I just what to limit the bloodshed. That's all.
 

chuck

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REGISTERED MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
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First of all, for some reason or reasons, the automated software etc., i. e., which predetermines if only a little (not a lot) of what some folks posts can be replied to, also most of what you have written and have posted I can't reply to directly...

Above and beyond that:

Let's move on anyway!

Number one:

Most if not all of the activists etc. I did or do kick it with either never or seldom came into contact with the late brother Toure's AAPRP and/or the few that did never took them seriously...

I. e., whoever they were (or are), whatever was (or is) the nature of the Pan Africanist idelogy, etc., was (or is) known and understood by their party's mainstays, etc., and what you're sharing is new and news to me too!

The backdrop has to do with folks spiraling off into things I was hip to/not down with, i. e., so be it the cult of personality taking to absurd and bizarre extremes, which reflected the SLA, or to me--the fantasy tripping ad naseum--which some shortsighted folk resorted to--via the BLA--and some remain in jail years later as an aftermath of, there are also some easy to understand reasons why some of our people turned their backs on us!

That is also why the likes of the M. O. V. E. organization--unlike the Panthers--were considered little more than unwelcomed outsiders/and troublemakers, etc.

I. e., though some have a clue and others are clueless about that too, one just does not continue to use and reuse the same old tactics, when new issues and problems call for fresh ideas/new approaches, etc.

Otherwise no use denying the obvious...

Some did (or do) come to consider their's such a noble cause, etc., they don't bother to kick it with the very people they claim to be trying to liberate, etc., whereas their ideologies remain the agenda of little more than them and a handful of loyal followers...

I. e., there was no new black mass movement etc., at least not in the pursuit of the things you're writing/talking/etc. about, so if you're not writing/talking/etc. about those African Americans etc. who helped support what eventually led to the fall of the white racist apartherid regime/the rise of the ANC to power/in South Africa, most (if not all) of the rest of us had or had no idea about the 'rest of the story', as in--what you attribute to black opportunists fronting as black nationalists and/or Toure's party as regards their role in whatever Bill Clinton's meddling in African politics etc. brought about too, back in the nineties...

Remember on the homefront:

Young (or not so young) black men etc. were about redeeming themselves via a particular March...

Simply put:

Blacks as a people weren't asked or expected to support much...

Hence the levels of social awareness/political activism reflect it...

Nothing out of the ordinary about that either!

But folks via the here and now being so into denial about the present roots of our peoples ongoing issues/problems/etc. is!!

Lastly:

My good brother, me having roots which go back to Mother Africa herself, i. e., via passed down oral history--that places my african ancestry in old Benin--now a part of modern Nigeria--also knowing my maternal bloodline and/or the african males were devotees of Islam--etc.--is fine and well?

On the other hand, that neither predetermines my choice of faith (which is actually a part of me embracing the American Indian spirituality etc. of my indigenous ancestors as well) nor makes me an 'african' (which like my indigenous roots is either something I exibit via my life experiences or not at all)...

So even we have to agree to disagree, if not about all (though some) things, since be it somebody identifying themselves as 'an african' or 'an indian' etc., your identity must be a reflection of actually reflecting the heritage/history/customs/etc. of those particular people...

I e., our distant african ancestors were 'old seeds/planted in new soil(s), and we are the present day fruit of those unpaid black laborers, and who did far more than just pick cotton, etc.!

So, unless and until we come to grips/get our minds around who we are, any african on the continent must be and will be cautious and wary, whenever any of us make our return journeys, etc., to the lands of our and their ancestors...

Yes, there had been and is an already established process, which some Senegalese probably know and understand more about (than I can hope or pray to just put forth a guess about too), but as is becoming obvious to my indigenous relations, one has to be cautious and wary as regards the motives etc. of some (if not all) wannabes...

Then, too, it is as those 'return to Africa' proponents also kinda sorta forgot all about the earlier efforts of others, or the 'rest of the story', i. e., via the nations of Sierre Leone and Liberia...

No disrespected intended nor meant, no criticisms (and just questions I need and want you to answer) being directed your way, but facts and opinions are diffferent things, etc., i. e., what others need and we should want them to do is their own homework, as in--move above and beyond new emotional appeals--use their brains etc. and back up what they believe or claim with verifiable facts etc.!

Yes...

I did feel and think this was and is the only sure means and ways to get my points across...

No...

I didn't intend to bore you...

But...

Some things are looong overdue for us to be adult enough to face up to--as well as do something about!

It is time for today's black people in the states to truly mature and/or take their rightful places among the rest of the world's peoples as equals!

:SuN034:
 

abdurratln

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REGISTERED MEMBER
Feb 27, 2007
1,846
153
What I wil do here is break my reply down imnto two posts to avoid potential problems with the technology. But, the issues you raise are very, very importnat althoufgh I am sure most of us do not realize just how important. So, I feel a duty to try to respond detail by detail paoint for point.

Number one:

Most if not all of the activists etc. I did or do kick it with either never or seldom came into contact with the late brother Toure's AAPRP and/or the few that did never took them seriously...

I. e., whoever they were (or are), whatever was (or is) the nature of the Pan Africanist idelogy, etc., was (or is) known and understood by their party's mainstays, etc., and what you're sharing is new and news to me too!

The importan thing is what 0Malcolm, Nkrumah and Kwame taught us. And, that is whatever activity or cause you get involved in, it MUST be based on history. Avaoid repeating the mistakes of previous generations. Learn from their mistakes. Study African history, especially recent political history since independence.

For insatnce, when we look at ther mess in Somalia right now, we must keep in mind that it started more than 20 years ago. In fact it started even before that and the Somali people still have not completely come to terms with the post indendence political history. The last president of Somalia was Muhmaad Siad Barre. But, he came to power through a coup de stat. This means that htere had a break down in the Somali body politic before the total collapse of the 1990's. So, to find a successful solution in Somalia, we have had to go back beyond the Siad Barre regime to try to figure out why a military coup occured in the first place. Then we must study the misatkes of the past 20 years. And, let there be no mistake about it: there has been nothing but a string of one mistake upon another in the 20 years. This is why the problem still persists.

But, I do not want to get sidetracked to Somalia. The important is to be sure to get serious about African political history, especially since independence.

The backdrop has to do with folks spiraling off into things I was hip to/not down with, i. e., so be it the cult of personality taking to absurd and bizarre extremes, which reflected the SLA, or to me--the fantasy tripping ad naseum--which some shortsighted folk resorted to--via the BLA--and some remain in jail years later as an aftermath of, there are also some easy to understand reasons why some of our people turned their backs on us!

To be honest about it, we have never really set down and been honest with each other. SLA (Symbinese Liberation Army) is an outstanding example of how we messed up. But, nobody has ever said so until now. BLA (Black Liberation Army) is another.

Espeically when it comes to BLA, it seems that we want to avoid hurting people's feelings. And, we just have not come to terms with such questions as did Imam Jabril Al-Amin actually kill that cop. But, one thing is certain: he is in jail. And, jail is one thing we have too much of in thsi community. This is why when I was in Atlanta I rsked offending some very important and powerful people to tell them exactly what I am trying to say here. And, that is we need get away from all kinds of mentalities that lead to our young people going to jail. It breaks my heart. But, there is not a heck of a lot that I can do and am willing to do regarding the incarseration of Imam Jabril.

This remind sof what I learned when i first joined the AAPRP: anything that leads to getting locked up is to be avoided. At that time we had a lot of yound bloods who were into break windows and things that sort. It all derived from glorification of the thug life which characterizes so much of "balck nationalsim". Jail house mentality is a looser. Stay out of jail.

That is also why the likes of the M. O. V. E. organization--unlike the Panthers--were considered little more than unwelcomed outsiders/and troublemakers, etc.

We do not need trouble makers, especially in this stage of the African Revolution. The fighting stage was suppose to end with the liberation of South Africa. So, we need to develop oursleves along the lines of such things as business development, mangaement, etc.

I met a young student this morning who is struggling to get into business school at an Ivy League university. he had no idea who Reginald Lewis was. He did not undersatnd that Michael Jackson as a billionaire is perhaps the greatest businessman that Africa has ever produced. In other words, he was totally ignorant of African history. What a tragedy!

I. e., though some have a clue and others are clueless about that too, one just does not continue to use and reuse the same old tactics, when new issues and problems call for fresh ideas/new approaches, etc.

Learn from history. Do not keep repeating the same old mistakes. When you get on the right track, do not keep re-inventing the wheel over and over again. If a good program already exists, join it. Do not compete with it.
 

abdurratln

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REGISTERED MEMBER
Feb 27, 2007
1,846
153
Some did (or do) come to consider their's such a noble cause, etc., they don't bother to kick it with the very people they claim to be trying to liberate, etc., whereas their ideologies remain the agenda of little more than them and a handful of loyal followers...

At best, that is fascism, the type of fascism that characterizes so much of "black nationalism". Fascism manifests itself in so many, many ways among Africans. This is why people keep telling me that i am a lousy leader. Hey. I ain't no leader at all. That is nothing but a fascist idea. If anything worthwhile is ever to get done, the so-called leader will not do it. It takes ordinary every day people like you and me to Unite Africa. So, any time you see some kind of a secret organization or secret leadership run from it.

I build up ther Popular Front for Pan-Africanism to where it is right now. But, when people started talking about some kind of a secret leadership structure, I quit. And, I urge those who still work inside the Popular Front to deal with that leadership problem. Secret leaders is nothing but fascism. Leadership most be open to the public and rely on public input. Otherwise it simply is not a political party. At best it is a fascist organization but actually closer to a gang, organized crime.

I. e., there was no new black mass movement etc., at least not in the pursuit of the things you're writing/talking/etc. about, so if you're not writing/talking/etc. about those African Americans etc. who helped support what eventually led to the fall of the white racist apartherid regime/the rise of the ANC to power/in South Africa, most (if not all) of the rest of us had or had no idea about the 'rest of the story', as in--what you attribute to black opportunists fronting as black nationalists and/or Toure's party as regards their role in whatever Bill Clinton's meddling in African politics etc. brought about too, back in the nineties...

What happened is hard to know exactly. I am sure that some got paid to disrupt things. Others were just confused. they never clarified in their minds that Pan-Africanism is NOT "black nationalism". And, they never clarified that it is impossible to be an active participant in the liberal Dummy-cratic Party and a memebert of a Pan-Africanist party at the same time.

So, I think a lot of people were secret Dummy-crats, closet Dummy-crats. So, whatever the great white hunter Bill Clinton did (Clainton was and is THE leader of a faction of the Dummy-crats) they follwed it blindly because that white boy was a "black president". See crazy this non-sense gets?

Remember on the homefront:

Young (or not so young) black men etc. were about redeeming themselves via a particular March...

Simply put:

Blacks as a people weren't asked or expected to support much...

Hence the levels of social awareness/political activism reflect it...

Nothing out of the ordinary about that either!

MMM could have been a good thing in the spiritual arena. But, it was udermined by fascism, the cult of the leadership personality. To be blunt about it, Farakanism is fascism. Furthermore, the Nation of Islam is false religion. It has no basis or footing in the worldwide Muslim Community. We are doing all we can to bring them into the Community. But, they resist us every step of the way. This is why MMM is a failure. And, NOI is a failure. I hate to get myself caught up in this mess like this. But, my honest opnion is that the NOI will just melt away eventually because like all fascism, it is dependent on one ot two so-called leaders. All leaders die sooner or later.



Lastly:

My good brother, me having roots which go back to Mother Africa herself, i. e., via passed down oral history--that places my african ancestry in old Benin--now a part of modern Nigeria--also knowing my maternal bloodline and/or the african males were devotees of Islam--etc.--is fine and well?

On the other hand, that neither predetermines my choice of faith (which is actually a part of me embracing the American Indian spirituality etc. of my indigenous ancestors as well) nor makes me an 'african' (which like my indigenous roots is either something I exibit via my life experiences or not at all)...

So even we have to agree to disagree, if not about all (though some) things, since be it somebody identifying themselves as 'an african' or 'an indian' etc., your identity must be a reflection of actually reflecting the heritage/history/customs/etc. of those particular people...

I e., our distant african ancestors were 'old seeds/planted in new soil(s), and we are the present day fruit of those unpaid black laborers, and who did far more than just pick cotton, etc.!

So, unless and until we come to grips/get our minds around who we are, any african on the continent must be and will be cautious and wary, whenever any of us make our return journeys, etc., to the lands of our and their ancestors...

Yes, there had been and is an already established process, which some Senegalese probably know and understand more about (than I can hope or pray to just put forth a guess about too), but as is becoming obvious to my indigenous relations, one has to be cautious and wary as regards the motives etc. of some (if not all) wannabes...

Then, too, it is as those 'return to Africa' proponents also kinda sorta forgot all about the earlier efforts of others, or the 'rest of the story', i. e., via the nations of Sierre Leone and Liberia...

No disrespected intended nor meant, no criticisms (and just questions I need and want you to answer) being directed your way, but facts and opinions are diffferent things, etc., i. e., what others need and we should want them to do is their own homework, as in--move above and beyond new emotional appeals--use their brains etc. and back up what they believe or claim with verifiable facts etc.!

Yes...

I did feel and think this was and is the only sure means and ways to get my points across...

No...

I didn't intend to bore you...

But...

Some things are looong overdue for us to be adult enough to face up to--as well as do something about!

It is time for today's black people in the states to truly mature and/or take their rightful places among the rest of the world's peoples as equals!

:SuN034:

Here is the thing about Islam that so many non-Muslims fail to get. There is absolutely no coercion, compulsion or force of any kind in Islam. I know Chrsitians lie all the time to the contrary. But Quran States clearly and repeatedly that that is not the case. In fact, Quran repeatedly assures us that Islam is a Thing between GOD Alone and the Believer, individual Believer. Thus, there is no priesthood such as Farakhan of Elijah Muhammad or Fard Muhammad. None of that. Every individual person must come to terms with his condition as a creature of GOD. And, everyone does so sooner or later. For some it will be when he looks death in the face. For others it will be only after death whemn he ia awaken in the grave and made to account for his condition in the previous life. But, EVERYBODY must do individually. This is why I never try to act like any kind of priest or interceder between people and GOD. I deliberately hold myslef in check so that people can see that I am vulger, mean, and flawed in amny other ways. If they seek redemption, they must go dierectly to GOD, not through me. Such is FORBIDDEN in Islam.
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
REGISTERED MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,471
2,162
Good afternoon, bruh...

And you were doing so well!

But one's faith/spiritual beliefs/etc. are just that...

Atttempts at a true uniting of the black disapora were tried, during our lifetimes, too...

To me the effort itself matters...

If they failed?

All movements have their setbacks!

Otherwise our efforts must go on!

Good luck with yours as well...

Take care...

Peace...

:10200:
 

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