Black People Politics : Is Black nationalism a conservative idealogy?

abdurratln

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Feb 27, 2007
1,847
153
Some did (or do) come to consider their's such a noble cause, etc., they don't bother to kick it with the very people they claim to be trying to liberate, etc., whereas their ideologies remain the agenda of little more than them and a handful of loyal followers...
At best, that is fascism, the type of fascism that characterizes so much of "black nationalism". Fascism manifests itself in so many, many ways among Africans. This is why people keep telling me that i am a lousy leader. Hey. I ain't no leader at all. That is nothing but a fascist idea. If anything worthwhile is ever to get done, the so-called leader will not do it. It takes ordinary every day people like you and me to Unite Africa. So, any time you see some kind of a secret organization or secret leadership run from it.

I build up ther Popular Front for Pan-Africanism to where it is right now. But, when people started talking about some kind of a secret leadership structure, I quit. And, I urge those who still work inside the Popular Front to deal with that leadership problem. Secret leaders is nothing but fascism. Leadership most be open to the public and rely on public input. Otherwise it simply is not a political party. At best it is a fascist organization but actually closer to a gang, organized crime.

I. e., there was no new black mass movement etc., at least not in the pursuit of the things you're writing/talking/etc. about, so if you're not writing/talking/etc. about those African Americans etc. who helped support what eventually led to the fall of the white racist apartherid regime/the rise of the ANC to power/in South Africa, most (if not all) of the rest of us had or had no idea about the 'rest of the story', as in--what you attribute to black opportunists fronting as black nationalists and/or Toure's party as regards their role in whatever Bill Clinton's meddling in African politics etc. brought about too, back in the nineties...
What happened is hard to know exactly. I am sure that some got paid to disrupt things. Others were just confused. they never clarified in their minds that Pan-Africanism is NOT "black nationalism". And, they never clarified that it is impossible to be an active participant in the liberal Dummy-cratic Party and a memebert of a Pan-Africanist party at the same time.

So, I think a lot of people were secret Dummy-crats, closet Dummy-crats. So, whatever the great white hunter Bill Clinton did (Clainton was and is THE leader of a faction of the Dummy-crats) they follwed it blindly because that white boy was a "black president". See crazy this non-sense gets?

Remember on the homefront:

Young (or not so young) black men etc. were about redeeming themselves via a particular March...

Simply put:

Blacks as a people weren't asked or expected to support much...

Hence the levels of social awareness/political activism reflect it...

Nothing out of the ordinary about that either!
MMM could have been a good thing in the spiritual arena. But, it was udermined by fascism, the cult of the leadership personality. To be blunt about it, Farakanism is fascism. Furthermore, the Nation of Islam is false religion. It has no basis or footing in the worldwide Muslim Community. We are doing all we can to bring them into the Community. But, they resist us every step of the way. This is why MMM is a failure. And, NOI is a failure. I hate to get myself caught up in this mess like this. But, my honest opnion is that the NOI will just melt away eventually because like all fascism, it is dependent on one ot two so-called leaders. All leaders die sooner or later.



Lastly:

My good brother, me having roots which go back to Mother Africa herself, i. e., via passed down oral history--that places my african ancestry in old Benin--now a part of modern Nigeria--also knowing my maternal bloodline and/or the african males were devotees of Islam--etc.--is fine and well?

On the other hand, that neither predetermines my choice of faith (which is actually a part of me embracing the American Indian spirituality etc. of my indigenous ancestors as well) nor makes me an 'african' (which like my indigenous roots is either something I exibit via my life experiences or not at all)...

So even we have to agree to disagree, if not about all (though some) things, since be it somebody identifying themselves as 'an african' or 'an indian' etc., your identity must be a reflection of actually reflecting the heritage/history/customs/etc. of those particular people...

I e., our distant african ancestors were 'old seeds/planted in new soil(s), and we are the present day fruit of those unpaid black laborers, and who did far more than just pick cotton, etc.!

So, unless and until we come to grips/get our minds around who we are, any african on the continent must be and will be cautious and wary, whenever any of us make our return journeys, etc., to the lands of our and their ancestors...

Yes, there had been and is an already established process, which some Senegalese probably know and understand more about (than I can hope or pray to just put forth a guess about too), but as is becoming obvious to my indigenous relations, one has to be cautious and wary as regards the motives etc. of some (if not all) wannabes...

Then, too, it is as those 'return to Africa' proponents also kinda sorta forgot all about the earlier efforts of others, or the 'rest of the story', i. e., via the nations of Sierre Leone and Liberia...

No disrespected intended nor meant, no criticisms (and just questions I need and want you to answer) being directed your way, but facts and opinions are diffferent things, etc., i. e., what others need and we should want them to do is their own homework, as in--move above and beyond new emotional appeals--use their brains etc. and back up what they believe or claim with verifiable facts etc.!

Yes...

I did feel and think this was and is the only sure means and ways to get my points across...

No...

I didn't intend to bore you...

But...

Some things are looong overdue for us to be adult enough to face up to--as well as do something about!

It is time for today's black people in the states to truly mature and/or take their rightful places among the rest of the world's peoples as equals!

:SuN034:
Here is the thing about Islam that so many non-Muslims fail to get. There is absolutely no coercion, compulsion or force of any kind in Islam. I know Chrsitians lie all the time to the contrary. But Quran States clearly and repeatedly that that is not the case. In fact, Quran repeatedly assures us that Islam is a Thing between GOD Alone and the Believer, individual Believer. Thus, there is no priesthood such as Farakhan of Elijah Muhammad or Fard Muhammad. None of that. Every individual person must come to terms with his condition as a creature of GOD. And, everyone does so sooner or later. For some it will be when he looks death in the face. For others it will be only after death whemn he ia awaken in the grave and made to account for his condition in the previous life. But, EVERYBODY must do individually. This is why I never try to act like any kind of priest or interceder between people and GOD. I deliberately hold myslef in check so that people can see that I am vulger, mean, and flawed in amny other ways. If they seek redemption, they must go dierectly to GOD, not through me. Such is FORBIDDEN in Islam.
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,683
2,153
Good afternoon, bruh...

And you were doing so well!

But one's faith/spiritual beliefs/etc. are just that...

Atttempts at a true uniting of the black disapora were tried, during our lifetimes, too...

To me the effort itself matters...

If they failed?

All movements have their setbacks!

Otherwise our efforts must go on!

Good luck with yours as well...

Take care...

Peace...

:10200:
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,683
2,153
At best, that is fascism, the type of fascism that characterizes so much of "black nationalism". Fascism manifests itself in so many, many ways among Africans. This is why people keep telling me that i am a lousy leader. Hey. I ain't no leader at all. That is nothing but a fascist idea. If anything worthwhile is ever to get done, the so-called leader will not do it. It takes ordinary every day people like you and me to Unite Africa. So, any time you see some kind of a secret organization or secret leadership run from it.

I build up ther Popular Front for Pan-Africanism to where it is right now. But, when people started talking about some kind of a secret leadership structure, I quit. And, I urge those who still work inside the Popular Front to deal with that leadership problem. Secret leaders is nothing but fascism. Leadership most be open to the public and rely on public input. Otherwise it simply is not a political party. At best it is a fascist organization but actually closer to a gang, organized crime.



What happened is hard to know exactly. I am sure that some got paid to disrupt things. Others were just confused. they never clarified in their minds that Pan-Africanism is NOT "black nationalism". And, they never clarified that it is impossible to be an active participant in the liberal Dummy-cratic Party and a memebert of a Pan-Africanist party at the same time.

So, I think a lot of people were secret Dummy-crats, closet Dummy-crats. So, whatever the great white hunter Bill Clinton did (Clainton was and is THE leader of a faction of the Dummy-crats) they follwed it blindly because that white boy was a "black president". See crazy this non-sense gets?



MMM could have been a good thing in the spiritual arena. But, it was udermined by fascism, the cult of the leadership personality. To be blunt about it, Farakanism is fascism. Furthermore, the Nation of Islam is false religion. It has no basis or footing in the worldwide Muslim Community. We are doing all we can to bring them into the Community. But, they resist us every step of the way. This is why MMM is a failure. And, NOI is a failure. I hate to get myself caught up in this mess like this. But, my honest opnion is that the NOI will just melt away eventually because like all fascism, it is dependent on one ot two so-called leaders. All leaders die sooner or later.





Here is the thing about Islam that so many non-Muslims fail to get. There is absolutely no coercion, compulsion or force of any kind in Islam. I know Chrsitians lie all the time to the contrary. But Quran States clearly and repeatedly that that is not the case. In fact, Quran repeatedly assures us that Islam is a Thing between GOD Alone and the Believer, individual Believer. Thus, there is no priesthood such as Farakhan of Elijah Muhammad or Fard Muhammad. None of that. Every individual person must come to terms with his condition as a creature of GOD. And, everyone does so sooner or later. For some it will be when he looks death in the face. For others it will be only after death whemn he ia awaken in the grave and made to account for his condition in the previous life. But, EVERYBODY must do individually. This is why I never try to act like any kind of priest or interceder between people and GOD. I deliberately hold myslef in check so that people can see that I am vulger, mean, and flawed in amny other ways. If they seek redemption, they must go dierectly to GOD, not through me. Such is FORBIDDEN in Islam.
Good evening, bruh...

And you've put forth several valid arguments etc.

But the reality is this tends to be a take shared by those of our generations...

It may not be shared by many of the post sixties eras...

Even the fictional Superfly tried to preserve and protect an uncorrupted part of his african ancestors lands etc.

Flashforward and we have to do something to reverse the process that's corrupted the peoples of the rest of it...

I just say and write:

Nothing worth doing or having ever came easy to me and mine--you and yours--be it our ancestors--forebears--or our grandparents and parents generations...

Let us be as good and no less than they were or are too...

:em0200:
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,683
2,153
I identify the concept being related to the words: Marxist-leninism...

You call it a part of scientific socialism...

In either case:

Different farmers/same tools/etc.

:fyi:
 

Omowale Jabali

The Cosmic Journeyman
MEMBER
Sep 29, 2005
21,130
9,466
Temple of Kali, Yubaland
Occupation
Creative Industrialist
Well this just proves how divided in ideology even the Panthers were and/or how different each chapter varied in ideology while still being commited to the same 10 point program.

Of course mine and your knowledge/understanding concerning the Panthers and the issues between revolutionary/cultural nationalism because I came under influence of brothers such as Bunchy Carter, John Huggins and Geronimo Pratt all who were students involved in organizing the Black Student Union at UCLA and also dealing first hand with problems associated with US Organization. While the Panther/US conflict on UCLA's campus was a few years before my time nonetheless in the mid to late 70s as a BSA organizer at UCLA there were vestiges of this conflict which hampered some efforts to organize a statewide BSU alliance since Karenga's US was stronger on some campuses such as Long Beach State (and also San Diego State) which also had a more so-called Afro-centric teaching staff.

Dont forget that when Cleaver went to Algeria and Kwame Ture also went to Ghana these became objects of criticism by Bobby Seale who started calling them agents as they both also were instrumental in forming the intercomunal faction which largely became the RNA/BLA in NYC and Atlanta.

While the police-intelligence complex played a major role in pitting these groups against each other, there were some deep ideological differences, which still exist today in the movement even though the BPP is no longer functional.

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIc.htm
Bump!
 

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