Black People Politics : If America is so Bad - Why do so many want to get in - with few leaving?

Discussion in 'Black People Politics' started by Destee, May 9, 2012.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Peace and Blessings Family,

    Reading some folk, one would think that america is the worst place to be, yet folk are dying to get in.

    How can that be?

    I was watching a program, i think it was called Train to America or something, and the folk from Mexico if no mistake, were risking their lives, limbs, everything ... for a ride on a train ... and i do mean on it ... on top of it ... hanging onto the sides of it ... wrapped around the wheel ... anything ... for this train came to America.

    We've heard the stories of folk weathering large bodies of water on a raft, to get here.

    Yet many of us here, have nothing good to say about the country.

    Why is this the case you think?

    In fact, most that say ugly things about America, aren't leaving.

    What's the psychology behind this phenomena?

    If america is so bad - why do so many want to be here - with few leaving?

    Looking forward to the discussion.

    Thanks in advance.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    1) Most African-Americans have no clue what their ancestors have bled, cried, and died for to get us to the point we are at today. Your ancestors went through a hell.
    2) Many people can't or won't take advantage of the multitude of opportunities that exist in the United States today. This could be that many people don't recognize those opportunities.

    Make no bones about it. In comparison to other countries around the world and throughout history, the US is the greatest federation to have ever existed. No country has achieved the level of prosperity, dominion, technology, and freedoms that exist right now in the United States.

    As far as I'm concerned, African-Americans have a duty and great debt to our ancestors to press forward to make things better not only for themselves, but for the generations that follow.
     
  3. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The answer to your question, Sister Destee, is "Propaganda."

    In the 1940s, some segregated Africans suffering under Jim Crow and lynchings swore up and down to men from the Netherlands* that the United States of America was the freest nation in the world.

    Today, that media industry gained power supreme.

    To this day, (mis-)educated Africans would bless the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade because (at least) now they are not born in Africa.

    Erstwhile Africa today, after all the genocide, is the second largest continent and second most populous. This means that 'educated' Africans somehow can fathom the entire continent and dismiss it's diversity.

    That's propaganda and mis-education for you.

    --

    To your question, people come in because the U.S. has good Propaganda. People don't leave, because the U.S. has good Propaganda.

    You would be surprised at how many were willing to leave when Garvey gave the invite.

    HTP

    *By European indices, the Netherlands has more liberties than the U.S.
     
  4. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Okay ... that sounds reasonable ... but if you believe america is so bad ... why remain?

    What does remaining in such a place, simply to complain about that place, say about those that remain and complain?

    What drives such a phenomena as that ... when one is free to leave?

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  5. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Okay ... but for those who know / think / believe it's propaganda ... why remain?

    What keeps those who consider themselves so smart, conscious, aware, etc., in america?

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  6. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Destee, it's not that easy to leave.

    It's easy to understand with an analogy. A man kidnaps an thirteen-year old. Rapes her. Sells her to other men. She's controlled and battered as a prostitute for five years. She becomes 18. She watched enough TV to know that 18 is an adult. She confronts her kidnapper and tells him that she's going to leave some day. He gives her the same speech he always has. Her folk forgot about her. She can't get anywhere. She has no skills, no education. At least here she can be worth something.

    But she runs.

    And guess what?

    She has no skills, no education, and she's not worth anything in the outside world.

    There's no happy ending. She might die on the streets.

    That's the reality of the American system. It's propaganda and it's lies--sure. But during that time that it was lying to you, it certainly wasn't teaching you how to make a Community.

    So it's not a free system. It's not advanced. There's not much opportunity. And your lot is miserable.

    Yup.

    But the grass isn't really greener on the other side.

    The other side is struggle. Real-life struggle.

    For instance, I can do some things with mathematics that some people can only dream of. But OK?

    America designed me to be useful to it. No one and nothing else. Especially not myself or my race.

    It's not hopeless. Truth is--I did abandon America. But it's struggle, Sister Destee.

    It's just not as easy as you make it seem. Wherever you go, you'll need to 'hustle.'

    The boys hustling are those who abandoned America. And as you cry on them, you need to understand them: A lot of us left America. And a lot of us are dying because America chased us down.

    HTP
     
  7. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Not true.
    You have the right of expatriation.

    Turn in your passport along with a declaration of renouncing your citizenship to an American embassy and you are done. You will want to secure citizenship in some other country before releasing your (political) status as a citizen of the United States.

    But let's get something straight. There is citizenship of the United States as well as citizenship of a State. They are separate and distinct.

    Also, the United States is not a country with respect to private international law. It is a FEDERATION of States.

    For public international law, the United States is treated as a country for purposes of foreign policy.
     
  8. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    I wholeheartedly agree with skuderjaymes. A great example of this was the Elian Gonzales event in Florida several years ago. South Florida, being a coastal port and relatively close to the Caribbean islands, has a lot of people from Haiti, Cuba, Columbia, heck, all over the world. And, most of them will start out talking about how free and great America is. In the case of Cubans, most of them even vote republican which gives you some idea where they are coming from.

    But, what really brought most of them here is the lure of economic opportunity. The Elian Gonzales event burst the bubble on that when we saw how quickly all those Cubans in South Florida turned against, and a few even physically fought against, their beloved America. There are videos somewhere of Cubans throwing chairs at, and spitting on, the INS agents when they finally had to take Elian at gunpoint because all those Cubans just flat out refused to obey the law and the courts of their beloved America.

    But, even after that, those Cubans stayed here in America because that is where the jobs and money are.



    Same reason why blacks, while deeply disappointed with America, stay here.
     
  9. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Brother ABSiblings ... i hear what you're saying, but i just can't buy it ... not lock, stock, and barrel.

    More often than not, those who are talking so ugly about america, consider themselves very smart.

    They've figured out in their own minds, this system, and seem to have all the answers ... yet they remain.

    I just don't understand the psychology of this. Why remain in a place that you hate, when you could so easily leave.

    Not only do most remain, but they remain and complain day after day, for being where they choose to be.

    It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand it. If you hate a thing so, leave it.

    But few do that ... and then to blame their not doing it ... on the very nation they cling to and hate ... well ... it's a bit out of order.

    I could see our Ancestors being freed, not leaving the plantation right after slavery, but us ... there's no excuse for it.

    Instead of folk just saying ... THIS IS WHERE I WANT TO BE ... THAT'S WHY I'M HERE ... they say all kinds of other things.

    As if they are in some great denial their own selves ... some psychological perversion ... or not as smart as they claim to be.

    Love You!

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  10. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    There are many wealthy people who are leaving the US for purposes of getting out of the U.S. tax system and the federal government's commercial laws.

    Those people are drop their citizenship to live in other places in the world are called expatriates (nickname ex-pats). There are communities of these individuals all over the world.
     
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