Black Spirituality Religion : If Akhen-Aten Was Moses....

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by SAMURAI36, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    Not that any of this matters (for we all know it to be false anyways).....

    I was thinking; if Akhen-Aten was Moses, when then does the book of Exodus mention the "Pharoah Ramses" as the king at the time?

    Even the most basic history puts Akhen-Aten and Ramses (any one of the Ramses) as being centuries apart, with Aten being the ancestor, and Ramses being the descendant.

    Why was Aten opposing someone who was not even born yet? Much less, how could "Moses/Aten" even know about this person, in order to write about them?

    Once again, the neo-translation of the Bi-Bull doesn't add up.

    PEACE
     
  2. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    My response is above...
     
  3. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That statement is the portion of your thread that is a lie and is intended to mislead less informed African Americans.

    In a book that I have ISBN 0-500-05074-0 “Chronicle of the Pharaohs” it shows Akhenaten’s reign ending around 1335BC and shows Ramesses I starting his reign around 1295BC which is a difference of about 40 years.

    With a basic examination of the time line, which is probably available on the Internet, we can clearly see your error statement that guts your entire thread and squashes the bases of your argument.

    It is a very high possibility that the Biblical record is correct.
     
  4. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Very nice, Omo.
     
  5. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I must say that I do not personally believe some of the conclusions reached by Ahmed Osman and others who propose that "Moses" and "Akhenaten" are the same but further research definitely establishes that Akhenaten's mother was at least of "Apiru" heritage.

    In many books written by Laurence gardner he has geneaological charts which show that Abraham's wife Sarah, whose name means "Princess" also was of "Egyptian" heritage (not only Hagar), in fact, she was supposed to have been related to the Pharaoh Senusret 1 who died est 1926 B.C.

    The year 1926 B.C. is well before so so-called "Hebrew" or Hyksos invasions. It dates to the early part of the 12th Dynasty and "Senusret" is actually Kheperkare Sesostris 1, who reigned est. 1971-1926 B.C.

    Doesn't the "Bible" speak to how Abraham tried to conceal his wife's identity but it was found out ( because she was related to the Pharaoh, and was actually one of his wives!).

    As far as the earlier "argument" concernin "An" or "Anu" etc., which I tried to stay out of, let me note that "Anu" was not soley a location in "Kemet".

    Anu (An) was the "Great Father of the Sky and Earth" whose "consort" was Antu (An-tum, Atum, Nammu, Nommo) the Great Mother of the Sky and Earth, according to the Sumerians/Enuma Elish. Anu and Antu were alledged to have "birthed" "Enki"the Lord of the Earth and great Sheperd Prince of Eridu, the Guardian of the Table of Destiny.

    I won't go any further except to note these references in Gardner's "Genesis of the Grail Kings", pages 334-341.

    The thing is even the name "Kemet" a dirivative from "Khem" is equated as Ham or Chem-Zarathustra, 10th Archon of the Age of capricorn known also as "Neelata-mek". This "Chem" is NOT a descendant of "Noah" but ot Tubal-Cain and Nin-banda, the King of Ur, c.3200 B.C.

    Thus, to label oneself as"Kemetic" is a misnomer in the ehtnic sense as "Kemet" (Ham, Chem) is of Sumerian origin from Ur of the Chaldees, which traces back "Biblically" through Lamech back to Enoch and "Enki".

    This lineage descends from the Biblical CAIN....not "Seth"....which explains why those who practiced "kemetic" theology (in antiquity) distinguised themselves from "Sethites"....

    Gardner exposes this in his charts which are titled "Ancestral Lines of Tubal-Cain and Noah...

    Peace...
     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Omo:

    I would like to congratulate you on your continual study. You and I are much alike; we don’t set into one doctrine and get trapped only in that perspective. We seem to be the type of person that always asks the question, where did it come from, what is its origin?

    The study of ancient doctrine is the only way to begin answering those questions and as we study we grow in religious and spiritual understanding. I have personally found that if one has a disbelief of any ancient religious or spiritual doctrine that disbelief begins to sum up their lack of spiritual knowledge. All of the ancient doctrines relate to the Supreme Being. Laziness to not discover its relationship manifests as disbelief.

    I am not familiar with that particular passage but we do have Abraham concealing Sarai as his sister and the Pharaoh taking her as his wife.

    Gen:12:13: Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

    The odd thing about this story and information is that it is repeated twice in the exact same way with the exception of more information being revealed the second time.

    Gen:20:2: And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

    Then once again we have the exact same story repeated again but this time with different names and characters.

    Gen:26:9: And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife: and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her.

    The Bible is trying to reveal some type of importance about the name “Abimelech” and “Sarai / Rebekah”. Some have indeed speculated that Abraham was a General in a Pharaohs army.

    I started working on a translation for the original Egyptian reference for the Greek name “Hyksos” which is “hikau khausut” but found I needed the Egyptian Hieroglyphs to go further. Using Wallis Budge’s Dictionary I did find translations for the first letters, “Hi-ka-u” can be translated as, “To rise up from a province in Kemet”.

    It may be that we have all been lied to about the Hyksos origin and only a true translation of the original Egyptian name “hikau khausut” will reveal this to us.
     
  7. emanuel goodman

    emanuel goodman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    interesting connection brother

    Chaledea or ur which was were abraham was from ur or chaledea . ur means fire which is were the birth of light( the false intelligence was born) when darkness( the sum of all things is were true intelligence resides). I have been carefully researching the story of abraham found in the torah> he defeated nimrod and tore down his temples which contains the idols of his ancestors . which was the birth of religion through the jubesites and hittes and horties called judasim with the first false manuscript the torah which states the women came form man via the rib a complete lie. However it is quite impossible for me to try to link a fictious bibical character such as moses to any one because he did not exisit. his name simply means to have been drawn out of the water during the lovely but false story. moses or thut mose was just a fictious character based on theuti or thou or thought our original teacher that wrote on his tablet the original laws with his quill pen or stylus the laws of the neteru. why are we contuining to even waste our time with a connection to this moses when there are no records of any of the events taking place in kemet during the pre dynastic or dynastic time periods. The more time we spend debunking theory loosely based and incorrectly correlated to our doctrines of the past we continue to give breath energy and life to them. Thus wasting time we could be spending trying to assumulate the knowlegde that must be passed to our decendants. Just my humble opinion though hotep wadu brohter
     
  8. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Brother, in all respect, I suggest that you further study the 18th Dynasty rulers beginning with AHMOSE.

    I have studied DuBois, Diop, Chancellor Williams, John Jackson, CLR James, George G.M. James and others and not one has denied the existence of the 18th Dynasty rulers known as the Thuthmosids.

    Furthermore, how can you state that "there are no records of any of the events taking place" when they are clearly recorded in Hatshepsut's Temple at Denderah!

    Also, dont you realize that this historical record is exactly what was being chronicled in the new Temples erected by Akhenaten but "the slate was wiped clean", that is to say, they were destroyed??!!

    Come on now....without realizing it you are prosposing the racist notion that Africans have "no written record"....!

    This record, was in fact, written in Meroitic script...
     
  9. emanuel goodman

    emanuel goodman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    may have mis interpreted my post brother

    first of all brother i did not say that kemet did not have a record. I was stating that this moses and his events the defeating of rameses the great sepeartion of the water to free his people etc are not included in this record at any time. Thutmose is a title there were several thutmose , ra, isis, etc throughtout the pre dynastic period and dynastic periods. how one thutmose can be derived to be the fictious moses is questionable at best. my question is why make a very weak correlation to thutmoids. when we know that moses is a recreation of neter thou in order for them to have a place in the development of sprituality when we know they donot have one .the information in his story the torah which means the law was passed on by a burning bush representing fire" the false and incorrect form of inlightenement brought forth from ur or chaleda which is where the other fictious character abraham was from. The very concept of light being postive was started in the torah and passed on through time from ur and the movement coming throught kemet and making the sun and fire postive sign for knowledge. this is where the birth of the illumanati came form the torch bearers whom have distored free masonary as we know it now (walk to the light beautiful light. Giving birth to phrases such as "let me shed light on this" etc. When we know that true intelligence is found in darkness (the sum of all things) that is all. from the start of this thread it is pure speculation based on his story at best. and you are right brother i do not attempt to get into his storical information in because of the unrealiabilty i think everything is realative such as the illusion of time so i tend to navigate to the base and not the very weak collection of his story that can and will get contradicted several times.
     
  10. ShemsiEnTehuti

    ShemsiEnTehuti Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I don't think a person named Moses actually existed, but that the Bible writers (one of them being Akhenaten) simply used the life of Pharaoh Akhenaten as a basis for the story.



    Not true. The longest we can verify (not concrete) of Akhenaten's reign was until about 1334 BCE before he had to flee/abdicate the Kemetic throne. Pharaoh Horemheb was the last king of the 18th Dynasty ending in 1292 BCE, perhaps 40 years. Then next king was Pa-Rameses (Rameses I), Horemheb's general, who became the next Pharaoh as well as founder of the 19th Dynasty. When you look at Exodus 1:8, it states that a new Pharoah came to the Kemetic throne who "who knew not of Joseph". This must have been Rameses I, because as soon as Horemheb came to the throne, he erased Akhenaten, his brother Semenkhare, TwtAnkhAmen (his son), and Aye (his uncle) from the kings list at Abydos as if they never existed because they were considered usurpers of the Kemetic throne. Then Ramses I (formerly Pa-Ramses) came to the throne, who knew not of Joseph. What is peculiar about Rameses I's reign is when coming to the throne, he was already a very old man, and so only reigned just under 2 years before dying. I think this death was embellished by the Biblical writers in the account of the Pharaoh along with his army being drowned by water in the "Sea of Reeds" (it does not say "Red Sea").




    Before Ramses I became Pharaoh, he was in Kemet's military under the name Pa-Rameses. He was so old coming to the throne because he served in the military for well over 40 years including some of the time Akhenaten was on the throne. The Bible says that the Israelites were banished to the land of Goshen, for they were an abomination to the people of Kemet (Genesis 46:34). Goshen when transliterated into the Kemetic registers to an area in the Northeast desert region of ancient Kemet called Gsm or Gesom. Under the rule of Pharaoh Horemheb this land was governed by Pa-Rameses, who was to become Pharaoh Ramses I, which is why the Bible says the Israelites were given land in "the district of Rameses" (Genesis 47:11).

    Basically, Pa-Rameses was a huge political and military figure in Kemet at the time, so they would know about Rameses.




    This is true, it doesn't add up if we only take the Bible's account for things which are blatant lies about our people. When we compare it to what our Nile Valley ancestors wrote, then and only then does it actually come into a clear perspective.
     
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