Black Spirituality Religion : Human incarnation – Christian – Hindu- Muslim View

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by dattaswami1, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Human incarnation – Christian – Hindu- Muslim View



    I repeatedly say that Hinduism and Christianity have the same basic structure of spiritual knowledge. When God comes down as Human Incarnation, He is viewed in three ways. Some people view the Human Incarnation as God in-Toto. When the electricity enters the wire it pervades all over the wire. Wherever you touch the wire you will experience the electricity. Veda says the same “Antar Bahischa Tat Sarvam…..”, which means that God pervaded all over the human body and is present inside as well as outside the human body of the Human Incarnation. This view is called as monoism (Advaita) of Sankara. This exactly coincides with the statement of Jesus “I and My Father are one and the same”. The Human Incarnation is convenient for the sake of human beings. The vision, touch, conversation and co-living are quite possible with Human Incarnation. The human body is exactly the similar medium in which the soul of a human being also exists.

    For any transaction common medium is the best. It is unnecessary and wastage of time and effort to try to see God in the medium of energetic form. For such a divine vision lot of severe penance has to be done. You have seen the same God in another medium called as energy. Is it not wastage of time and effort to try to see a person in a silk shirt, when the same person is appearing before you in the cotton shirt? The person is important and not the shirt. There is a saying which states that one caught a small rat after digging a big hill. Some people try to imagine God embedded in the pure awareness, which is the finest form of energy. Such form of energy is very very subtle and can be perceived only by imagination. The pure awareness is only the costliest shirt. Therefore, the time and effort you have concentrated on the meditation to perceive God in such costliest shirt through your mind is the climax of wastage of your time and effort. The penance to see the energetic form and the meditation to imagine God in pure awareness are unnecessary efforts because you can see the same God in the human body of the Human Incarnation.

    Moreover, the human body is very very clear for the vision. The energetic form cannot be seen by the naked eyes. Only by special energy granted by the Lord, the eyes can see such energetic form. The internal eye which is the mind can only imagine the form of pure awareness. Moreover, touch is not possible in the case of the forms of energy as well as awareness. Conversation with the form of pure awareness is very much subtle and unclear. The conversation with the energetic form can take place but that is also limited to a few seconds only. The energetic form is highly unstable and is subjected to diffusion. The entropy of the energetic form is very low and the spontaneity is towards the increase in entropy. Therefore, a long conversation is not possible with energetic forms. The energetic form appears for a few seconds only and grants the boons for the penance and disappears immediately by the process of diffusion.

    Such energetic form is not at all convenient for co-living. If you see Lord Krishna, the devotees could see the Lord for a long time. They could embrace Him for a long time. They could talk with Him for any length of time till their doubts are cleared. They could even hear the sweet songs from the mouth of the Lord. They lived with the Lord closely for years together. Such fortune is unimaginable and thus the human form of God is the best. Only very very few fortunate devotees can recognize God in human form and receive all the benefits fully. Some devotees doubt the Lord in human form due to over logic and loose the golden chance. Therefore, a human being can approach God completely only through the human form. This is stated by Jesus “one can reach My Father only through Me”. Thus very fortunate devotees believe the monoism of the wire and the electricity and get the complete benefit.

    The second view is to see the God and the Human Body as separate items. The monoism gets diluted because of the natural egoism and jealousy of humanity. They cannot accept a particular human being as God. For such acceptance complete eradication of egoism and jealousy is needed which is highly impossible. God is present in the heart of the Human Incarnation. The Lord is wrapped by the human body like a chocolate is wrapped by a covering sheath. The inner Lord is the main component and the external human body is only a minor component. The human body is recognized as a part and parcel of the Lord but it is of least importance.

    One cannot experience the Lord just by seeing or touching the covering sheath. The main component is called as ‘Seshi’ and the minor component is called as ‘Sesha’. This is the philosophy of Ramanuja. Jesus also represents this concept. Jesus told that God is His Father and that He is the beloved son of the Lord. The son is always together with the Father and is not an outsider. The blood of the Father and the son is one and the same. Thus both are essentially one and the same but God has major importance and the son has minor importance. Whenever Jesus talked that He is the Son of God this line of philosophy appears, which is called as ‘Visishta Advaita’ or a special type of monoism. The Father and His son are physically separate but both are one and the same by their essence. The Father is like ocean and the Son is like a wave. The human beings cannot worship the God. For their convenience, a small part of God came down to give the divine experience.

    The third line of view is ‘Dvaita’ or Dualism. This results when the egoism and jealousy of a human being is in climax. They cannot accept any human being greater than themselves in any way. God is the Master and the Human Incarnation is only His dear servant. The servant is an outsider and has no blood relationship with the father. God sends His messenger to pass on His message on the earth. Every human being is a servant of God and thus all human beings are spiritually equal. God chooses a particular servant as a messenger to the earth. Such choosing of the messenger is only a chance. This belongs to Madhva. God never enters any human body and will not come down to the earth. Only a little power and His grace enter the messenger.

    Whenever Jesus claimed Himself as the messenger from the God, this line of philosophy appeared. Islam believes this type of concept for them. Mohammed is only a messenger from God. They do not accept the concept of Human Incarnation. But they respect the messenger and worship Him as the representative of God. Thus this type of worship started the representative worship. A representative of God can be any object in the world. Not only the human body but also any non-living inert object can also stand as the representative of God. Based on this only, the Persians started worshipping Fire as God.

    Some devotees feel that God is the all-pervading cosmic energy, which is also inert. Some meditate upon God as the all-pervading pure awareness, which is also another special form of energy only. Life or awareness is a special form of nervous energy. Some have started worshipping every human being or even every living being as God. Some have expanded the concept to every living and nonliving object and thus treated the entire cosmos as God. Scientists believe that the ultimate is only this world. Thus this concept of representative worship ended with atheism finally. This concept has good sides also. When the Human Incarnation is denied the false human incarnations are prevented. Otherwise several preachers have started cheating the public by exploiting this concept. In that way this line of philosophy is no doubt good.

    Thus, the Christianity and Hinduism have the same structure of philosophy and can be treated as the two branches of the same tree. Only the language, culture, food habits etc., differ in these two religions. But the internal spiritual essence is one and the same. Only these two religions accept the concept of Human Incarnation and treat the human form as God. I do not understand why there is a quarrel between Hindus and Christians when such a wonderful homogeneity exists. The History also showed the mutual love and respect in these two religions as you can see the honour of Jesus in India and the honour of Hindu saints like Swami Vivekananda in Christian countries.

    No other two religions have such fusion as Christianity and Hinduism. When such homogenous religions quarrel with each other, not to speak of quarrels between heterogeneous religions. Never a Church in India was attacked and never a temple in America was attacked. The Christianity is spreading in India very easily. Similarly, Hinduism is also spreading very fast in Christian countries. Therefore, I wish the fusion of these two religions in the beginning to stand as an example for other religions also to fuse with each other. This will be the first step for the Universal Spirituality.
     
  2. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Muslims D O N O T Worship Muhammad(PBUH)

    dattaswami before talking about any religion or I should say before declaring something firt research, and if u cant then ask someone who knows about it. In Islam worshipping any1 other than GOD ALMIGHTY is considered as blasphemy.We respect Prophets whether Jesus or Muhammad but love them BUT --- WE DONOT WORSHIP THEM.

    Muhammad is Just a Prophet

    In a post of urs u said that Muhammad was also a God incarnate but He didn't want to raise an un necessary war among the people, so He said that I m only a messenger. Produce ur proof.

    [018:110] Say, “Surely, I am just a man like you. Revelation has been sent to me that your God is only one God! Hence, those hoping to meet their Lord should seek the righteous acts, and should not accept any partners in the worship of their Lord!”

    [038:065] Say (oh prophet)! “Actually, I am only a warner! There is no god but Allah, the One and Only, the Almighty!”

    [041:006] Say, “In fact, I am a human being like you. It has been revealed to me that your god is only One God! So, seek the path (that leads) straight to Him, and seek His forgiveness. Misery is for those who associate partners (with Allah).”

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  3. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Jesus is not God

    Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

    2- John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

    3- John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

    4- Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    Who Jesus Prayed To

    "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed....(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:39)"

    "So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:44)"

    "One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

    Who Jesus prayed to before his alleged crucifixion?

    -----

    Jesus is the way to the Father?

    Every Prophet was the way to the God almighty for his people , whether Abraham , or Noah ...

    Jesus said my Father and I are one

    Read a lil further Jesus also said as My father and I are one , even you and I are one ... (to his apostles) ... so are they also gods?

    Mathew 26:39

    Why Jesus begged to God almighty for mercy?

    39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, MAY THIS CUP be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
     
  4. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hinduism believes in God in many forms even 33 million ... be it snake or cow or chair or anything. But a religious educated Hindu will tell you there's only ONE GOD.

    "Ekam evadvitiyam"
    "He is One only without a second."
    [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1

    "Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."
    "Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
    [Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9

    "Na tasya pratima asti"
    "There is no likeness of Him."
    [Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19
     
  5. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ur scriptures say theres no likeness no image of HIM and you give Him forms and images ?

    Well that's considered blasphemy in the religious scriptures of most of the religions.
     
  6. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You have picked up very crucial concept of spirituality.
    This statement is original and therefore it entered your mind.
    The inner meaning of this verse is based on the angle, which you take
    For the word Mohammed, here the word Mohammed stands only
    For the external human form and not the internal eternal God.
    Islam does not agree to the concept of human incarnation.

    When Bible says the word Jesus, it means the internal eternal God.
    When the Gita says Krishna, He means the same eternal God.
    Because both Christianity and Hinduism believe God in flesh.
    We need not criticise Islam for not believing Human Incarnation,
    Because the main idea is that there is always misuse of this concept.
    The human beings claim themselves as human incarnations.
    Every human being following the philosophy of Advaita in Hinduism
    Feels that it is the Lord, this is very dangerous extrapolation.
    Even devils and demons claimed themselves as eternal God
    By doing certain miracles after achieving some super powers.

    All these dangerous misleading cases harm the devotees.
    In the name of idol worship also, priests have exploited devotees.
    They keep idols in front and rob the wealth of devotees.
    To avoid all these misleading misused concepts, Islam sorted
    To the worship of formless aspect of God, we appreciate this.
    But because of misuses we cannot deny basic system itself.
    If copying is happening, it should be arrested by taking care.
    We cannot cancel the very examination system for the fear of
    This misuse, we are not avoiding the journey by buses and trains
    Due to possibility of accidents, the human incarnation is important.

    That is the only path to reach God as said by Jesus because
    The human beings approach God only through human form.
    The devotees can get full satisfaction and full guidance only
    From the human incarnation and not from any other form of God.
    Of course, if you fear for the exploitation of this concept here,
    It is better to stick to formless God or God through statues.
    But you should be prepared for the disadvantages in the above ways.
    You will also loose the golden chance provided by God for your sake.

    Yet, Islam should be appreciated because avoiding danger is good.
    Such decision was taken by Islam depending on the circumstances
    And the atmosphere prevailed over the society during the time of Mohammed.
    We should understand the religion from the point of the circumstances
    And the environment that existed during the propagation at that time.

    But now the scientific logical analysis is well developed and one need not fear
    For the exploitation by the false human incarnations who can be easily
    Identified, so you should not avoid the system in the present circumstances.
    Islam is not a new concept to the Hinduism because in Hinduism
    The philosophy of Madhva says the same and preaches that the Lord
    Can never become the human being nor vice versa and this is also stated
    By Jesus when He told that He was the Messenger sent by God.

    Thus Islam agrees with Hinduism and Christianity in its basic concept.
    Mohammed told that He was the last prophet because He did not like
    Another false human incarnation to come and mislead and exploit the mass.
    It is only to avoid the danger of exploitation of cunning human beings.

    What is the reason for Islam not to accept the human incarnation?
    Even Mohammed said that He was only the servant of God and He did not claim
    Himself as the human incarnation, even though He Himself knows the truth
    That He is the God in Flesh like Buddha or Krishna or Jesus.
    This reason enlightens the greatness of Islam Religion, the reason is that
    Once a real human incarnation is accepted, several fraud human incarnations
    Claim themselves as God and mislead the spiritual aspirants for their selfish ends.

    Infact such concept was so much polluted and got so much diluted
    So that every human being started thinking that he himself is God.
    In Hinduism this misinterpretation rules the minds of several people
    Even today and most people think “Aham Brahmaasmi”, which means
    “I am God”, people say that service to human beings is service to God
    Because every human being is God only, Sankara condemned this concept

    Which was a religion called Loka Sevaka Matam, when Jesus was worshipped
    By a lady who was using some special scent to wash His divine lotus feet,
    A disciple told that the cost of the scent could have been used to serve the beggars
    The disciple thought that service to society is better than the personal service
    Of the Lord, but Jesus immediately replied, “Let her do this service, beggars
    Are always present in this world but I come rarely to this world”, this shows
    That the Lord is far greater than the society and the social service is valid only
    When the Lord gives permission to do so, because the saviour is the Lord
    And not the society, thus the background of Islam should be properly understood.
     
  7. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Only one God created this world

    Hindus say that Brahman is the creator, Muslims say
    That Allah is creator, Christians say that the creator is
    Jehovah, all say that the creation is this entire world.
    If Hindus say that Brahman created India, and if
    Muslims say that Allah created Arabian countries and
    If Christians say that Jehovah created the western countries,
    The problem is solved, there can be three Gods together,
    Who have created the three parts of the earth separately.
    But this is not so, each religion says that their God only
    Created the entire world, unfortunately there is one world!
    One world only! Come on, all of you sit together here
    And give me the final conclusion after debate, otherwise,
    The scientists are laughing on all of you! Shame to all!
    They criticize that these religions do not have even
    The basic logic, which is the fundamental common sense.
    Because of you, the greatest God is also mocked by them
    They say that the religions are rigid conservatisms!
    Even a small boy is putting this question to all of you.
    Stop all your discourses and first answer this question.
    If you want to say that God created the entire world,
    You have to accept that there is one God only always
    And that His names are all the above three names.
    We see in the world a single person having three names.
    If there is one God, He only created this entire world.
    All the human beings are invariably His children only.
    No Father is partial to a single child and therefore
    He must have preached the same knowledge to all
    In different languages and in different methodologies
    To different levels, this is Universal Spirituality.
     
  8. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Universe is infinite with unimaginable beginning and unimaginable end. This means the cause from which the Universe started and the same cause in which the Universe ends on dissolution is the unimaginable God. Mud is the beginning stage of the pot and also the end stage since the pot ends in the mud on destruction. The Universe exhibits the unimaginable God by its unimaginable limits of beginning and end. The space is generated from God and the dissolution of space can only show the real nature of its cause (God).

    When the chain is dissolved in fire, then only the gold lump, which is the cause of the chain, appears in its original form. But even if you imagine for millions of years, you can never imagine the dissolution of space and therefore you can never imagine the original nature of God. God is beyond space and God is the permanently unknowable region even for the intelligence enriched with science and logic.

    Hence, God is a permanent wonder and the creation consists of some knowable regions of knowledge without any wonder and also some temporarily unimaginable regions with temporary wonder. Now the word Maya can be used for the wonder, which is both permanent (God) and which is temporary also (the deeper layers of the world up to the space).
     
  9. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    There's only one God , the creator of this world. As the Holy Quran says that "To Him belong the most beautiful names" and hindu scriptures quote that "The priests call Him by the most beautiful names" . So anyone bearing a knowledgeable head over his shoulder can conclude that God,Allah,Brahman,Ella'e al point to One true God but in different languages. There is Only one God who created heavens and the earth and the whole of creation. He is the God of the christians, the muslims , hindus and even of the minorities. And God is JUST.He's not biased.

    As God tells in the Holy Quran that He sent a WARNER to every nation. So All the messengers from the times of Adam till Muhammad were sent by Him.He revealed all the revelations found in this world. But it is an irrefutable fact that people used to temper wid Gods words for their material benifits. Bible too speaks of its corruption. Even NIV publishers had serious doubts about it's origin n authors.I ve proofs in case u want.

    So it's not God being unjust.It's human jealousy which simply turns its back when truth strikes by.Moses prophecized advent of Jesus countless times in the bible but Jews were jealous to accept Jesus as their Messiah.Similarly Muhamad was prophecised in the Bible and by Jesus too, but Christians committed the same sin by turning their backs. So who is to be blamed? God or humans?

    It is easy to burn don ur house but very difficult to change ur belief ... If we can turn back to our beliefs and keep aside the teachings of our priests which contradict our scriptures we are on one single platform i.e, there's only One God to be worshipped.

    Every scripture teaches to Worship one God. but we close our eyes on clear cut verses, and we look for verses which can by twisting n twirling serve our purpose.
     
  10. Questioner08

    Questioner08 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As per my understanding of ur concept of human incarnation i've come to the following conclusions.

    1.God is weak, and He is in fear that people may not disgest the concept of Human incarnation so God kept quiet about it (as in case of Muhammad and Budha)

    2.God may "LIE" in some cases , just to avoid danger.

    3.You'll believe in fairy tales about human incarnation and you'll not turn back to ur scriptures which refute the following. Because your mind is set on this.

    4.Scriptures don't mean anything to you. Because your faith lies in human incarnation not in what God says.

    I m sorry but it only presents God as Unjust,Weak,and that He too lies. I m sorry to say but it simply contradicts the mind of a rational person whether muslim or not.

    And now to Muhammad: It seems that you believe that you know Muhammad more than billions of muslims do ...

    Prophets are sinless, they don't have to lie. Muhammad was engaged in wars by the pagans in Arabia for a long time. He who fought battles was afraid of another one ? Logic can't be seen here.

    Prophet Muhammad advised his followers not to trangress the limits in praising him as the folowers or Jesus did and presented him as Son of God. (Ref:Al-Bukhari)

    btw i m still waiting for an apology from ur side for that u said muslims worship Muhammad.
     
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