Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Keita Kenyatta, Oct 19, 2011.
This video may be a good anti Islamic propaganda piece but from a historical perspective it is flawed. First of all there was no "Arab" invasion of Morocco in 708.
Secondly, Morocco was inhabited by the Berbers since at least 5000 years ago.
The country was first united under the Idrisid dynasty in 788.
This early dynasty was not established based on warfare or domination of the indigenous people. It was a safe haven for many who were escaping the domination of the eastern caliphate which ruled from Ifriqiya (ie "Africa).
During this period Morocco became a center of learning and trade, before the later establishment of Timbuktu.
SMH @ you omowale something or rather. Brother Keita posted this topic 2 years ago. I post a comment and then in jump you. I deleted that statement just so I could reply to you, LOL --again you don't read nor provide well documented resources...just your pompous words as truth.
"Britian and The Islamic World, 1558-1713", by Gerald MacLean and Nabil Matar
al-Mansur replied to Queen Elizabeth 1 on June 23 1590 "...if you extend the military help you promised Don Antonio ...this year..." he continued "...we shall send our envoy as soon as the 'happy action' of conquering the Sudan is finished. You and I.." he concluded "...share the same goals..."
"...On 28 February 1591, a Moroccan army reached Niger across the Sahara, 135 days after leaving Marrakesh. Two weeks later, 13 March, the Moroccans defeated the Songhai army, after which the 'Sudan' --the Land of the Blacks-- submitted and would henceforth send an annual tribute of 100,000 pieces of gold and 1,000 slaves to Marrakesh. The wealth that al-Mansur gained from the invasion immediately attracted European traders. The Portuguese captive Antonio de Saldanha reported that Marrakesh soon teamed with English, French, Flemish, Italian, and Spanish merchants, each seeking al-Mansur's favour and approaching him with requests for monopolies..."
My question here then is where is the historical record of Berbers in the region being referred to as Blacks or Moors prior to 708?
FYI Not too bright talking 2 yourself, LOL. Brother Keita will answer eventually just not today. Better yet, maybe you are 'topic confused' as it is Jamesfrmphilly who mentioned Berbers!
...More documentation, that is on topic:
"Europe Through Arab Eyes"
by Nabil I. Matar
1588 Don Antonio, claimant to the Portuguese throne, in England
1588 A Moroccan scribe describes the Spanish defeat and praises Queen Elizabeth
1591 Moroccan conquest of Songhay
1591 Completion of the palace of al-Badi in Marrakesh, inspired by the Escorial
*** Ah, so here is confirmation that some sort of monetary exchange occurred between England and the Morracan Empire, thereby providing the necessary ammo to overtake Songhay and rather than pay her back used the monies to finance their own kingdom.
Yet, you probably don't get it because you dont read, cluster ideas and then align information into a logical and orderly flow.
Since I typically IGNORE you and stopped posting to your NONSENSE threads, I had no idea who reposted and my comments were concerning THE VIDEO. So NO, I am not "topic confused" but maybe you are.
My question was concerning claims not by brother Keita, but THE VIDEO which mentioned an 'Arab" INVASION of Morocco in 708, and that the people in Morocco at that time referred to themselves as "Moors".
All I am asking for is PROOF of both of these points. If YOU or anyone else cannot Show and Prove that "Arabs" invaded "Morocco" in 708 and that the Black people called themselves "Moors" where is the evidence?
Im not talking about what happened in the 1500.s but the early 700s which is what THE VIDEO mentions.
(In fact, I doubt you even watched the video based on your responses to me)!
The founder of the dynasty was Idris ibn Abdallah (788–791), who traced his ancestry back to Ali ibn Abi Talib and his wifeFatimah, daughter of the Prophet Muhammad. After the battle of Fakh, near Mecca, between the Abbasids and a Shiite party, Idris ibn Abdallah fled to the Maghreb. He first arrived in Tangier, the most important city of Morocco at the time, and by 788 he had settled in Volubilis.
The powerful Awraba Berbers of Volubilis (or Walili as the Berbers called it) took him in and made him their 'imam' (religious leader). The Awraba tribe was originally from the Tlemcen region and had supported Kusayla in his struggle against theUmmayad armies in the 670s and 680s. By the second half of the 8th century they had settled in northern Morocco, where their leader Ishak had his base in the Roman town of Volubilis. By this time the Awraba were already Muslim, but lived in an area where most tribes were either Christian, Jewish, Khariji or pagan. The Awraba seem to have welcomed a Sharifi imam as a way to strengthen their political position. Idris I, who was very active in the political organization of the Awraba, began by asserting his authority and working toward the subjugation of the Christian and Jewish tribes. In 789 he founded a settlement south east of Volubilis, called Medinat Fas. In 791 Idris I was poisoned and killed by an Abbasid agent. Even though he left no male heir, shortly after his death, his concubine Lalla Kanza bint Uqba al-Awrabi, bore him his only son and successor, Idris II. Idris' loyal Arab ex-slave and companion Rashid brought up the boy and took on himself the regency of the state, on behalf of the Awraba. In 801 Rashid was killed by the Abbasids. In the following year, at the age of 11 years, Idris II was proclaimed imam by the Awraba.
Even though he had spread his authority across much of northern Morocco, as far west as Tlemcen, Idris I had been completely dependent on the Awraba leadership. Idris II began his rule with the weakening of Awraba power by welcoming Arab settlers in Walili and by appointing two Arabs as his vizier and qadi. Thus he transformed himself from a protégé of the Awraba into their sovereign. The Awraba leader Ishak responded by plotting against his life with the Aghlabids of Tunisia. Idris reacted by having his former protector Ishak killed, and in 809 moved his seat of government from the Awraba dominated Walili to Fes, where he founded a new settlement named Al-'Aliya. Idriss II (791–828) developed the city of Fez, established earlier by his father as a Berber market town. Here he welcomed two waves of Arab immigration: one in 818 from Cordoba and another in 824 from Aghlabid Tunisia, giving Fes a more Arab character than other Maghrebi cities. When Idris II died in 828, the Idrisid state spanned from western Algeria to the Sous in southern Morocco and had become the leading state of Morocco, ahead of the principalities of Sijilmasa, Barghawataand Nekor.
Does any of the above sound like an "Arab" invasion of Morocco or "Black Moors"?
Who was Idris !?
Idris I was the great grandchild of Hasan, son of Ali and grandson of Prophet Muhammad. He escaped from Syria after the defeat of the Alids by the Abbasids at the battle of Fakhkh in 787 and took refuge in North Africa (nowadays Morocco). There he established the Idrisid dynasty.
The Tomb of Idris I (green roofed structure, bottom left)
In 789 arrived in Walīla, the site of the Roman Volubilis where he founded the town of Moulay Idriss near the hill of Zerhoun surrounding the native Berber tribes. It was then occupied by the Berber tribe of the Awraba, under Ishaq ibn Mohammd. He married Kanza, daughter of Ishaq ben Mohammed the king of the tribe, fathering a son, Idris II. This event is considered a consolidation and the birth of both the Idrisid dynasty and the birth of Morocco, the second Muslim State after Al Andalus to cut off relationships and become independent from the Muslim Abbasid caliphate of Baghdad.
Idris I conquered large parts of northern Morocco, and founded the city of Fes, which his son Idris II would make capital city of the Idrisid dynasty. In 789 AD, he captured Tlemcen (modern day Algeria) which became part of the kingdom. This succession of events prompted vengeance from the Abbasid caliph Harun Al-Rashid, who sent emissaries to kill him. Idris I was poisoned and died in 791. His son, Idris II, was brought up by the Awraba, and left Walīla for Fes in 808. Idris is buried in Moulay Idriss.
So, what these links PROVE is that a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad was a refugee from the Caliphate in Baghdad, migrated to North Africa, founded the town of Moulay Idriss, married the daughter of Ishaq ben Mohammad, fathered a son, Idris II and "this event is considered a consolidation and the birth of both the Idrisid dynasty and THE BIRTH Of MOROCCO. THE SECOND MUSLIM STATE AFTER AL ANDULUS TO CUT OFF RELATIONSHIPS AND BECOME INDEPENDENT FROM THE MUSLIM ABBASID CALIPHATE OF BAGHDAD.
There were no "Black Moors" of Morocco prior to these events because "MOROCCO" did NOT exist!
I have said this before and will say it again. Some of you confuse fact with fiction because you do not KNOW African Islamic history. YOU make the mistake of equating ALL MUSLIMS with "Arabs" which is like equating ALL AFRICANS with Ethiopians or worse "Kemetians".
Islam spread to BLACK AFRICA not by 'Arab invasions" (INITIALLY) but intermarriage and cultural exchange between SHIA MUSLIMS and BLACK AFRICANS and BERBERS. Many of whom fled from the ABBASIDS. Especially upon the collapse of the Fatamid dynasty.
Many of YOU do NOT how the many differences between SHIA and SUNNI, and the role that SHIA played in creating BLACK AFRICAN Islamic cultural and trading centers and as stated before I'm talking prior to the establishment of Timbuktu.
The main point here is that from this early period it was not "Moors" that "caused the entire Black Race" to fall. Not based on the numerous false claims made in THE VIDEO.
(I am addressing THE VIDEO ONLY and will not debate with detractors who will bring up irrelevant points)!
Separate names with a comma.