Justice Council : How Do You See The Council Operating - What Will it Do?

Discussion in 'Destee Community Justice System Council' started by Destee, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Peace and Blessings Family,

    Destee Community Justice System Council
    Members Managing Their Own Selves

    I see the council as way of resolving issues before they rise to a level where management must be involved, i.e., disruptions, violations, etc.

    A very specific and available avenue of resolution, that allows Members to move the issue to a more objective space ... The Destee Community Justice System Council Forum ... where respected opinions of others can be provided.

    Of course ... you'll have to be inclined to honor the council's decision (i imagine) ... but if you don't ... and the disruption continues ... management will be there to squash it ... and of course ... our rules apply at that point ... when moderators are moderating, stay out of the way.

    I suppose it could do more ... but that's what i'm thinking right now.

    What do you think the council can do for us?

    Love You!

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    I'm proud to say too ... that you all already do a LOT of self-moderating! ... :toast:

    This is a natural course for us ... where you actually move me out of the mix! ... :yaay:

    I think it's great ... i'm excited ... but i think i said that already ... huh ... :look:

    Okay ... i'm finna quit talk'n ... for real this time.

    Love Yall!

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  3. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    Now that you mention it, we do. Thanks to some of the members that have been here longer.


    The down side is that we don't get to interact with you as much. I know I miss it, and luv when you join in our debates.


    I'm wit cha....I get to try and do something such as this with the help of others, from the ground up. And when it works....(and it will work), we can look back and say look at what "we" did.:great:



    Luv ya sista Destee!!!!!!

    Peace!
     
  4. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well, to answer the thread topic,

    As a case-study, we can use the allegation against The-God concerning his harassment of MsInterpret. From what I gathered, MsInterpret wanted him to disengage entirely. Her reasoning that The-God was harassing her. Personally, I saw no harassment except for an occasional comment in the shoutbox with no follow-up. I could not tell if he were trying to flirt with MsInterpret or mock her. MsInterpret would respond to some comments by The-God with of course a request of disengagement but also a comment or two toward him.

    The question is, what can a Haki Council (until further notice) do?

    Hard to say, MsInterpret wanted The-God to disengage with her entirely, but "Why?" isn't public knowledge. What's more The-God wasn't harassing everyone, just MsInterpret, "Why?" again.

    In this post, I proposed a court-system:

    http://www.destee.com/index.php?thr...stice-system-council.76873/page-6#post-813615

    I.e. MsInterpret elects an advocate or "Lawyer" (someone objective but familiar with the Laws of the site, MsInterpret's side, basic manners and the Council's functions;) The-God elects an advocate or "Lawyer" (someone objective but familiar with the Laws of the site, The-God's side, basic manners and the Council's functions.) Both MsInterpret and The-God agree to speak once on the issue to their Lawyer's with prompts of who witnessed it, what happened, where the violations were, what they want, so forth . . .. The Lawyers then select from the Council, one person each, and those two Council members choose a third Councilperson.

    The two lawyers and the three Council people discuss a binding resolution, through a series of interviews with witnesses and examination of evidence.

    The Council makes a ruling, presented to Destee if necessary. The party that breaks from the solution is held as the next guilty party.

    For example (randomly using names from the status update to the right):

    Suppose MsInterpret chooses Alarm Clock as her representative; The-God chooses candeesweet. Alarm Clock then says Angela22 would make a good Councilperson (Judge) for his representation. Candeesweet decides DrSeide is a good Councilperson for The-God's interests. Angela22 and DrSeide debate long and hard but decide, ok, . . . oh well, I ran out of names (MsInterpret the next one) . . . so MrCautious1 (latest member at this time) is a good unbiased third councilperson. The 5 of them debate the issue. Calling up whoever saw the abuse or whatever. Alarm Clock advocates for disengagement; Candeesweet advocates for whatever The-God wanted. The five openly discuss the issue. Suppose it comes out we all misread the situation. Candeesweet shows that The-God was just flirting cause so many men were flirting. Who knows? Maybe the three council people will write up Destee and say, "We want a new rule . . ." or maybe they'll just lesson The-God on talking to women.

    We can't really tell what the merits are of this idea without having the situation before us. Though I like it as it doesn't let people advocate for themselves. However, it let's people choose their own advocates, and it lets their advocates choose the judges. It's also an example of self-moderation and community.

    Problems of course come when people don't participate. So, for instance, if The-God decides not to choose an advocate (though sometimes a person can come in on their behalf.) Alternatively, it can be that a person doesn't want to see the decision as binding. Suppose after the Council deliberates, it's decided whomsoever MsInterpret chose as an advocate wasn't as good an advocate as The-God's, then she may be irked by the process and disagree with its outcome. Then what?

    Though, for what it's worth, I see this court idea, with elected lawyers and elected councilpeople one of the more fair ways to go about it.
     
  5. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    This is good...I don't recall, but did you say that you were considering being on it? If not, you should; I think you would be a good member if you were.

    Peace!
     
  6. MimiBelle

    MimiBelle Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ^^^
    OR...the alleged victim could just pony up their copy-pasted excerpts of past dialogue and cut out the middle-men.

    So, will everyone be given an internet lawyer or...is that just for 'special cases' or....*laugh*
    How long will this 'process' take?
    I don't need 'representation'. Let's talk hypotheticals: If I had an issue, serious enough to warrant moderator intervention (can I be honest)? I am absolutely not willing to put up with you people -- alongside my bootleg a--s defense attorney trying to 'remake the freakin' wheel' -- and this bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo ....
    *shrug*

    Unless Destee's planning to throw down some attorney fees? Cool.
    ...and, in that case, I hum-bly submit my username, Mimi-Belle, for consideration to a slot on the esteemed Destee.com Community Counc-il Legal Defense Team.
    *laugh*

    Anyway - you're example:
    Honestly, bullying and abuse? This isn't an issue that needs to be touched by a forum moderating team on the internet. Sorry. Block the person. If the individual feels 'in danger', like... the person knows where she lives and is making threats? Tell her to get all forum records and direct her to the local police.

    If the alleged victim is speaking to the alleged offender in a normal and non-aggressive manner, the mods should encourage the victim to sever contact/ignore. If the individual chooses to engage the person?
    Fine - but they wouldn't be whining and crying about being bullied (TO ME) when they're practically courting the behavior.

    On the other hand... the victim could just be 'backing the person off', so to speak? Getting the offender to socialize and converse. Chill out. When you don't know how to deal with people who are abrasive and highly inappropriate, you might try to level with them in that way. Especially if ignoring the person doesn't work.
    So long as the word volley wasn't teasingly sexual on the part of the alleged victim, I'm willing to accept that explanation.
    We're not the same. We all handle things differently. Just because you're trying to level with a jerk doesn't mean that you actually want or accept their treatment of you.
    *shrug*


    Only way to make heads or tails of your example? To understand the nature of the comments and, perhaps, a record of pm discussions, if available. Although, if other posters (plural) take notice of what's said, call it 'harrassment' (enough to say something about it and single out one poster as the aggressor)...then it's pretty obvious that the victim isn't 'just making things up'.
    ...and you really aren't allowed to take 'a hands off' approach at that point. You're aware. That makes it your business and your responsibility... to do something. The end.
    *shrug*

    ANYWHO--
    How do I envision this thing working? Not sure. To me, it's just a 'something' that takes the strain off the site owner. Makes sense to me. Some tasks should be delegated.
     
  7. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes, but oftentimes an opening statement isn't enough. The problem with self-representation is just that. If you and I are in a personal dispute, then we both represent ourselves, what are we doing besides continuing our personal dispute?

    More clearly, in the example of MsInterpret v. The-God, if both represent themselves or plea their own cases, naturally if there is harassment and abuse present, that harassment and abuse will have its own forum.

    From the above suggestion, one chooses a lawyer, possibly among the Councilpeople.

    I neglected to mention that we'd impose deadlines.

    That's perfectly understandable. And yet, this is why you would be at liberty to opt-out of the Council system. The only issue is that then Destee can come by and rule however without an appeal on your behalf or an indepth review/recommendation on your behalf.

    My how quick we turn around for money. :)

    I don't take harassment too seriously either. And yet, let's really look at what we are saying. Street traffic isn't too serious to a man in a helicopter, but to a man in a car it's irksome. Sometimes danger isn't relevant and most all the times the police are not your friends. If the person in the street traffic wants to talk about street traffic, it's for us to provide that forum. Just because we are on the freeway or in a helicopter or walking, doesn't mean that person ought not have a forum.

    I don't disagree. But again, we're in the Helicopter. It's true, we can tell a victim, look, you can turn on the freeway and traffic is lessened. And we can do that rather than leaving it to Destee to do that. And this is better too. Why? Because maybe Destee won't look at it the same way.

    That's what the Council is there for.

    Precisely. As you put the responsibility on us, what do we do?

    Sometimes, its not so clear-cut. The "Why?" of harassment and targeting weren't made evident. There was no collection of evidence. Who is the burden of the collection on? If you say, "Self-representation," how so? Traffic can be seen from a helicopter, the car accident or the police checkpoint may not be seen by someone in the car.

    Precisely. But how? What is a way that's fair? It seems that you want self-representation, but realistically how will that differ from what's already in place?
     
  8. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    Everybody has the same choice, and that is to leave. No one is forcing anybody to do anything, but this is about making who and what we are better. Some people are with that, some aren't.


    You may laugh, (and don't take this the wrong way) but I've seen the type, you really don't want to put any effort towards anything. And that is cool also, you are not alone.



    Your opinion... But banning also serves a purpose, does it not?



    I agree, but since you really don't know the genesis of this particular issue, you're really talking out of ignorance.



    Why go through all of this, just file a police report. Isn't that what you said the member should do instead of wasting time? Looks like you put the cart before the horse.




    Hmmmm, the last two things that I quoted from you all points to working things out, and trying different things to solve a problem. Which is in stark contrast to how you first said that you would deal with any problem.



    Double speak...

    Peace!
     
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