Black Spirituality Religion : How do you know that there is a God?

dattaswami1 said:
In the state of coma, awareness is there, only brain is paralysed some little awareness exits. But awareness totally disappears in deep sleep. It is almost deep sleep not completely deep sleep. Very little functioning of nervous system in the case of coma.

If you are the spectator of the cinema, you should be separate from the cinema. You are the subject and the cinema is object, which is separate from you. If the subject and object are one and the same, there is no existence of the object at all. It means God did not create this universe. If the creation is absent, there is no entertainment to God. This leads to the inability of God in creating any object that is separate from Himself for His entertainment. Such inability makes God impotent and then God cannot be Omnipotent. Therefore, the separate existence of the universe in which God is not present, must be accepted to avoid all these contradictions.

What I was hinting at is, in the scenario where 'dattaswami1 ' is not conscious of the reality we are communicating in now. And only conscious of himself in his dream state. The characters whom you interact with is an aspect of you. Everything you are seeing, touching, smelling etc. is all an aspect of you. To me your reality in this state is nothing yet in the same instance of my thoughts this reality is everything to you. You can be entertained in this dream state as well. You could even induce yourself to go into a state of sleep, which can lead to this dream state.

If you or I, have the potential to create a whole reality, which also is not separate of my/your Self. Why could not GOD.

Could not you I and God indeed be sharing the 1 consciousness, living within this 1 physical reality? This isn't impossible. In fact it might explain a few things. :em2300:
If we could open our minds and not equate God as a mighty Character within this existence. We might begin to see God as the 1 existence. And experience a closer connection to God because of the understanding of your/our/God shared consciousness.
:grouphug:
 
how do you know...

i seldom get into these religious debates,but let me ask you this...have you ever paid close attention to the human body i mean just the way we are made and are able to think and create things or perhaps you might take a close look at an evergreen tree and the fact that it never dies,yes there is a god but the thing is that in this world gone mad we sometimes wonder where he is.
 
oldiesman said:
i seldom get into these religious debates,but let me ask you this...have you ever paid close attention to the human body i mean just the way we are made and are able to think and create things or perhaps you might take a close look at an evergreen tree and the fact that it never dies,yes there is a god but the thing is that in this world gone mad we sometimes wonder where he is.

Not me. I see God as Everything. Me, you, the body, the mind, the spirit and the evergreen tree. In a realm of nothingness, the 1 thing there is,
is nothingness. Should this 1 nothingness gain consciousness. This entity would be alone. The only material this entity could create from is its self. Because there is nothing else but this 1 entity. What you and I perceive and don't perceive around and within us is the multitude of things created from the one thing. GOD

It is pretty clear to me. But I also know I don't have all the answers so I keep an open mind stay in learn mode. The 1 thing I do know is that ''I am''.

So in this mad world, I often still remain at Peace. (or at least force a smile on my face :) )

Hotep.
 
hiphopolx said:
Not me. I see God as Everything. Me, you, the body, the mind, the spirit and the evergreen tree. In a realm of nothingness, the 1 thing there is,
is nothingness. Should this 1 nothingness gain consciousness. This entity would be alone. The only material this entity could create from is its self. Because there is nothing else but this 1 entity. What you and I perceive and don't perceive around and within us is the multitude of things created from the one thing. GOD

It is pretty clear to me. But I also know I don't have all the answers so I keep an open mind stay in learn mode. The 1 thing I do know is that ''I am''.

So in this mad world, I often still remain at Peace. (or at least force a smile on my face :) )

Hotep.

Whenever you think about God, the thinking itself is a form made of awareness or mind, even though you claim that you are thinking about formless God. You can never think anything, which is formless because your thinking itself is a form. The form may have some specific boundaries like a statue. Alternatively, the form may not have specific boundaries like air or water. But the air or water also has some regular or irregular boundaries, since even the air or water has certain limits. You call space as a formless object. But space has some limitations somewhere and you do not perceive those limits. Such limits may not be perceived but they certainly exist. Therefore, the concept of your formless object has some boundaries, which are either irregular or not perceived.

When you think of God as Awareness (Chit), the awareness is ‘mind’, which is nervous energy. Energy is in the form of waves and thus cannot be formless. According to the special theory of relativity of Einstein, space is also a form of energy because space exhibits the property of bending. In that case, space also cannot be formless. Even if you consider space as infinite vacuum, you are aware of the space. Such awareness itself means that space has become a form of awareness or mental energy. Therefore, strictly speaking there is no formless object in the creation. What you call as formless is an object, which has either irregular or infinite boundaries and which is imagined. Since, such a formless object is a form in the strict sense, an actual formless concept is impossible.

Therefore, whether you say that God created space or God created energy in the beginning, both statements mean the same because space is also a form of energy. The Veda said that Parabrahman created the space in the beginning (Atmana Akasah…). The Veda says again that Parabrahman created energy in the beginning (Tat Tejo…). Both the Vedic statements mean the same in terms of the latest concept of science. However, let such space or energy be called as the Formless God in your language. Thinking of such a Formless God, it becomes very very difficult for any ordinary human being. Even a scholar cannot maintain such a concept in his mind for a long time. Even if you are able to maintain such a concept in your mind, such a God is not the absolute God because the absolute God is completely unimaginable as per the Veda and the Gita (Yasyaa matam…, Maamtu Veda Na…). God imagined as space or awareness (mental energy) is not the absolute God, who is beyond space and awareness. The Veda says that God created space. The Veda says that God is beyond awareness. The creator is always beyond the creation. Even in the absence of the creation, the creator must exist.
According to the Brahma Sutras, God is the cause of this universe as its Creator and is the material cause of the universe too. The pot-maker is the creator of the pot. The mud is the material cause of the pot. Even in the absence of the pot, the pot-maker and the mud exist. Therefore, God existed even before the creation of the universe. The pot-maker and the mud exist even after the destruction of the pot. Similarly, even after the destruction of the world, God must exist. Thus God must exist before the creation of space and after the dissolution of space. You can never imagine the situation before the creation or after the dissolution of space. Your intelligence cannot cross the spatial dimensions and therefore cannot cross the concept of space. That means you can never imagine God. The Veda says that God alone knows God (Brahma vit Brahmaiva…).
Therefore, when you imagine God as the all-pervading space, such an imagination itself is only an item of creation. Such imagination is only an incarnation of God. When you imagine Him as space, you imagine the God who has entered the space and is in the space. Similarly, if you imagine God as all-pervading energy, you have imagined only the energy in which God is present. Therefore, you perceive God as space, inert energy or mental energy (awareness) such forms of God are only the incarnations of God in the forms of space, inert energy or awareness respectively. This means that you can perceive only an incarnation of God and never the absolute God.
When you perceive God as space, you call God as formless. If this space is taken as vacuum or ‘nothingness’, then God does not exist as per Buddhism or the older concept of science. But now science accepts space as a form of energy. Therefore, according to science ‘nothingness’ does not exist at all. According to science, the example of ‘nothingness’ is space itself and now the space has also become ‘something’. Therefore, now a scientist cannot say that God does not exist because non-existence or ‘nothing’ is vacuum or space, which also is a form of energy. Buddhism adopted ancient logic, which like the older concept of science, believed that space was non-existence of anything. Since, science, which is the modern logic overrules the ancient logic, Buddhism is naturally rejected by the modern science. If a scientist says that God does not exist, he is a no more a scientist because he is not aware of the latest special theory of relativity. Thus, an atheist is an outdated scientist. All the modern scientists, who are aware of the latest concept of space, have to believe in the existence of God.


Therefore, when you cannot perceive God in His original form and you can perceive God only through some medium of creation like space or energy or awareness, why not perceive God through the medium of matter also? Now if God exists in space, it means that God is exists in this universe. If God is present in the universe, the universe cannot be a separate object of entertainment to God. The Veda says that this universe is created for His entertainment (Ekaki Na...). If you are present in the cinema and become the cinema by pervading all over the cinema, the cinema is not a separate object for you and therefore it cannot give entertainment to you. If you are the spectator of the cinema, you should be separate from the cinema. You are the subject and the cinema is object, which is separate from you. If the subject and object are one and the same, there is no existence of the object at all. It means God did not create this universe. If the creation is absent, there is no entertainment to God. This leads to the inability of God in creating any object that is separate from Himself for His entertainment. Such inability makes God impotent and then God cannot be Omnipotent. Therefore, the separate existence of the universe in which God is not present, must be accepted to avoid all these contradictions.

Now the Veda says that God entered this universe (Tadevanu Pravisat…). But the Veda does not say that God entered the entire universe. God entered the Universe only through some limited form. Therefore, the entrance of God in to the universe is accepted. At the same time since God did not enter the entire universe, the universe exists as a separate object for His entertainment.

You may argue that God entered the entire universe as per a Vedic statement (Eesha vasyam idam…). But if you carefully analyze that statement, it also means that God enters this big universe only through a small form. The translation of that Vedic statement reveals the correct meaning like this: “In this large world, any small world can be pervaded over by the Lord entirely”. This is the true translation. The small world means the human body and the big world means this entire universe. This means that the Lord enters this big world through a small world, which is the human form. The human form alone can be called as a mini-world. The large world contains nine items, which are the inert five elements (earth, water, energy, air and space) and the four living items called as Antah karanams (mind, intelligence, self-awareness or egoism and the awareness which stores all the information). All these nine items are common between this large world and the small human being. Therefore, the conclusion of the Veda is that God enters this large world through a small human form. This can be explained by common experience also.

A spectator, who is seeing the cinema, wishes to take up a role in the cinema. Thus, he enters the cinema through a role and the cinema still entertains him. Therefore, the Gita also says that God enters this world only through a human form. The Gita also says that God becomes a Jeeva or human form by entering such a human form (Jeeva Bhutah…). You have entered the role or the dress of a king in the drama, which means that you have become the king in the drama. For all the practical purposes you are the king in the drama. But you retain your identity as the actor in the role and therefore you have not become the king in the true sense. The audience can treat you as the king but at the same time they are aware that you are not the real king. Similarly the devotees treat the human incarnation as God for all practical purposes.

But whenever egoism and jealousy enter their minds, they can analyze and know that God is in the human form and therefore the human form is not really God. Neither has God become the human form nor has the human form become God. Such clarification will reduce their egoism and jealousy and their devotion can become again alive.

Therefore, God cannot enter the (entire) space because if God enters this space, He becomes one with the Universe and His entertainment is lost. Therefore the power of God is material cause of this world. The power is modified into this world as the mud is modified into the pot. Therefore, the formless God, you think, is only the power of God and not the original God. Space is only the modification of the power of God, which is like the mud. God is like the pot-maker who is not modified into the pot. In this example let us assume that the pot-maker created the mud and then made the pot from the mud.

While creating the mud, the Lord is the creator or designer as well as the material. But while creating the pot from the mud, God is only the pot-maker or designer. The pot-maker, while creating the mud, is not modified because only the power of the pot-maker is modified into mud. Therefore, the material cause for the mud is the power of the pot-maker and not the pot-maker directly. This is the concept of Dvaita (duality) of Madhva.
In the concept of Ramanuja, which is called as ‘Visishta Advaita’ (qualified monism), the pot is considered as an associated body of the pot-maker. Instead of the pot, you can take the example of the cloth. The cotton thread is the material cause of the cloth. The weaver is the creator of the cloth. The weaver has created the thread and the power of the weaver is modified into thread as explained above. The weaver is wearing the cloth made by him and this point alone (association of the creator with the creation) is the extra concept in this theory. The weaver treats the cloth wrapped on his body as another external body of his. The Gita also says that your external gross body is like a shirt. Therefore, Ramanuja assumes this world as the body of God.

The Advaita scholars mocked at this concept due to their ignorance. They said that if God were associated with the world, the changes in the world would mean the changes in the body of God, which means that God is changed. This is absolute foolishness. When the body is compared to an associated shirt, the changes in the shirt cannot be equated to the changes in the person who is wearing it. If you take the body of a realized soul like Ramana Maharshi, He treated his body as his shirt. He separated himself from the body and limited himself to the soul. He observed the surgery of his body like a person, who is the spectator of his shirt being stitched by somebody. Thus if you take God as a realized soul, the changes in this universe cannot touch God, in spite of His association with the universe. To reject the mocking of the Advaita Scholars, Madhva avoided the example of the weaver in which the wrapped cloth is treated as another external body. He took the example of a pot so that the pot cannot cover the body of its creator like the cloth. Therefore, the pot cannot be treated as an external body of its creator like the cloth.
 
oldiesman said:
i seldom get into these religious debates,but let me ask you this...have you ever paid close attention to the human body i mean just the way we are made and are able to think and create things or perhaps you might take a close look at an evergreen tree and the fact that it never dies,yes there is a god but the thing is that in this world gone mad we sometimes wonder where he is.

If you see just a leaf and observe it deeply with the knowledge of Botany, you will be shocked with the miraculous work of God which reveals its unimaginable design, unimaginable co-ordination of functions of various cells etc. Through such unimaginable structure of the leaf you are first recognizing the unimaginable super power (Maya) of God. Immediately you will accept the possessor of the super power (Mayi) who is the Lord as said in the subsequent line of the same verse (Mayinamtu Maheshwaram….).

Therefore, the deep analysis of the nature which is Science is exposing the miracle of God to every body in this world and there is no need of a separate miracle. Therefore, Science is the best religion exposing the existence of God to every ordinary human being on this earth including atheist. Therefore, I have given a place for Science in the symbol of Universal Spirituality. A scientist does not require a separate miracle to recognize the existence of God like a realized soul since the deeper analysis of this nature reveals the unimaginable power of God and there by His existence.

A scientist who does not believe the existence of God is not a scientist at all. Thus, an ordinary ignorant devotee is helped by God through unimaginable ways. The exceptionally excellent devotee finds God’s help even through the natural ways. He thinks that even the natural respiration is by the grace and power of God only.
 

Donate

Support destee.com, the oldest, most respectful, online black community in the world - PayPal or CashApp

Latest profile posts

HODEE wrote on Etophil's profile.
Welcome to Destee
@Etophil
Destee wrote on SleezyBigSlim's profile.
Hi @SleezyBigSlim ... Welcome Welcome Welcome ... :flowers: ... please make yourself at home ... :swings:
Back
Top