Black People : Help me understand, please

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Zulile, Aug 31, 2007.

  1. Zulile

    Zulile Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    100
    Occupation:
    HR/Finance
    Ratings:
    +103
    I'm just going to put this out there - the question has been revolving in my head for a while now.. and all responses are welcome - negative, positive - although I'd prefer educational and constructive. My question is sincere.

    Just some quick background about me, so you dont start quoting the western Black hero's of the past (not to say they are not significant in the development of Black people globally - I'm absolutely fascinated with what I am learning via destee.com and the channels of info am intrigued to follow from posts here) nor am I questioning the political western grip on Africa.

    I am African- thus being Black has never been an issue. I've always been Black. Sure, I grew up in Apartheid - it's dying breaths. On a social level, the winds had already changed. Being Black has never been a question of skin tone - it's mental - you know yourself.. either you are, or you are not. These terms like.. coloured, mulatto, biracial, MULTIracial.. dont exist in my reality - oh yeah.. heard and expressed.. but.. by the "unenlightened" :) (how's that for a ironic term? haha) (gotta laugh some more - HAHAHA!!!).

    I hear people complaining about others that look too light, call themselves Black - or people known have a drop of Black blood - yet call themselves white. Or 1/4 Black.. this is something I find very diffcult to comprehend. Is that really THAT important? or even relevant in terms of a global Black identity? I mean.. go to any chinatown across the globe and even the street signs are written in Chinese! THAT is community!

    Sorry - thats not actually my question :) I'm distinguishing Black, from people who call themselves African <insert nationality here> - and I'm not proud of doing so - thus therein lies my question.

    Why is it, that Blacks in dispora who call themselves African <insert nationality here> - just dont go home? - particularily those who promote and advocate returning home, all the while maintaining residence in the west. It's not that hard to move to Africa - physically, anyway :) You WILL find work, you will get food on your table, your children will go to school. Your education/background alone - no matter how insignificant in the west - is almost certain to give you far more in return in Africa, and your worldliness, back to Africa. You'd be building Africa from within - which is the only way to do it, really. And given our modern communication channels - your work would have more.. i dont know the right word.. more conviction? value? coming from inside Africa. Is everyone waiting for Will Smith to move? hehehe - Sure - you'd be an outsider in Africa - just like in the West - with the never ending race struggle - but your kids raised in Africa would face African issues - and thats the whole point, isnt it?

    So what is actually preventing the mass exodus of African <insert nationality here>?

    That's my question.
     
  2. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    21,179
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Creative Industrialist
    Location:
    Temple of Kali, Yubaland
    Ratings:
    +9,585
    Are you from South Africa [Azania]?

    I used to be very active in the anti-apartheid movement in California and I used to ask similar questions to one of my brothers who used to be a member of the Black Consciousness Movement. I went back to LA about this time last year and visited him. He had a stroke a few months before, while visiting in South Africa and I was surprised to hear he didnt stay, but went back to work at UCLA. Im not sure cuz we havent spoke since then but he told me he was planning on moving back this summer.

    To be totally honest, these kind of questions have me seriously thinking about moving to Africa. Im getting old and having difficulty finding work despite 20 years of teaching experience. Folks just wont hire me in these school districts.

    In fact, I told my "ex" last week I was thinking seriously of a move to Africa. Where I dont know. Ghana. Ethiopia. South Africa. I still will need to find employment. I have one daughter who just started graduate/law school at Columbia. I have remained in order to help her with financial aid. Since she is managing with the little support I am able to give her at this stage, I still have reservation, so I have remained trying to improve my employment situation. I guess my move to texas should have been done a few years later, but I was tired of los angeles and needed a change of environment, to improve my mental and physical health.

    I have several friends who have gone and done volunteer work in south africa and this is perhaps what I should have done earlier. But I had/have family obligations. I come from a very large family and its not that easy to just pack up and leave. Not when one is considered an Elder and there is business to be taken care of here. I have several aunts and uncles and if they pass on before I do I will have to share responsibility for their burial.
     
  3. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    21,179
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Creative Industrialist
    Location:
    Temple of Kali, Yubaland
    Ratings:
    +9,585
    I also think that when you speak of a mass migration you have to consider that most africans in america have financial resources that they cant take with them. About 50% are homeowners and where can they go to make comparable income.

    Im not talking political ideology here. Cold, hard economic factors.
     
  4. kemetkind

    kemetkind Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    60
    Ratings:
    +61
    Great thread

    I intend to set foot on the continent at least twice within the next 12 months.

    But as far as moving there...permanently, not anytime soon.

    I browse some of the African message boards and I know quite a few Africans here in the states...I hate to generalize, but too many Africans view diasporan black people exactly as europeans do.

    It is no fault of their own, I do understand that, but I couldn't imagine just taking my family from one hot cesspool of ethnic discrimination into another...especially without the tremendous extended family & support networks we have here which enable us to cope.

    I would love to be involved in a repatriation effort with other descendants of slaves, and starting out I would go to the continent periodically for investing/building while still maintaining an economic base in the west. A second home in ghana with the fihankara project sounds like a great start.

    We could send billions back to our communities in Africa the same way mexicans, eastern europeans and israeli's do to their homelands.

    But jumping up and moving to Africa without established communities, support, or a cohesive group who will quickly build both, is akin to jumping out the frying pan into the fire.
     
  5. Zulile

    Zulile Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    100
    Occupation:
    HR/Finance
    Ratings:
    +103
    Brother O - I hear where you are coming from. You realize that Africans in the dispora are mostly there to support their African homes. Their parents, the property - they return home once every couple years in splendid grandeur, spending their $$. the Will Smith of Village Kumudo. ;) You'll find most already have children/wives in Africa - whom they support and put through school.. - and many intend to retire there. Certainly you also pick up on the.. I dont know the english word for it.. sorry :) but.. almost a feeling as if WHEN they pair up wth your nationals.. that they are not quite "there".. and that's because they are not. They are in every sense but the physical - in Africa. I know there are exceptions - but that doesnt make my statement a lie - it is the vast majority.. of Africans.. not Blacks. ;) but as a Black, you might not be privy to such.. as you are naturally excluded.

    I know South Africa is BEGGING for teachers - if you are looking for a temporary post.. just to explore.. let me know.

    I appreciate your honesty is your response - and please dont take my reply incorrectly. I smile as I type in my appreciation for the dialogue.
     
  6. dustyelbow

    dustyelbow Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +21
    Alot. I think Africans have to COMPILE HISTORICAL list of DIASPORANS who went back and what GOOD and NOT SO GOOD things they have contributed to the AFRICAN LANDS.

    Even DIAPORANS of recent CONTINENTAL AFRICANS.

    There has been many stories of DIAPSORANS going back to our FOREFATHER FOREMOTHER lands and ACT like EUROPEAN EXPATRIATES.

    EXCLUSIVE COMMUNITIES.

    I already COMB the INTERNET for US in that AFRICAN LAND and so FAR I am not IMPRESSED.

    I dont see any GROWTH from that and also there is a GREAT EXTERNAL FORCE (NATIONS) involved.

    If we all GO there it is GOING to be MAJOR PROBLEMS we have never EXPERIENCED before and AFRICA itself hasnt EXPERIENCED.

    It will not be like the SLAVERY experience because we have RETAINED our HABITS in these OTHER NATIONS.

    Secondly.

    Its expensive to TRAVEL to AFRICA these days.

    Getting a US PASSPORT is a PAIN.

    Seeing us OVERSEAS aint going to happen.

    Passport THEFT is HIGH in AFRICAN COUNTRIES and to see us UNABLE to return without a VALID US PASSPORT or any DIASPORAN COUNTRY without going through the ALREADY SWAMPED US EMBASSIES in AFRICA will be NO JOKE.

    Things our people dont THINK ABOUT. And we are ALREADY FUSTRATED ALREADY.

    To see us go through THAT will be more than HELLISH.


    Thirdly BANKING issues.

    Will I have to START FRESH in a AFRICA without my AMERICAN DOLLARS. I can earn AFRICAN COUNTRY CURRENCY but I will be STILL IN the CASTE system of POOR vs RICH.

    I have no issues with the THIRD (GIFTS I mentioned before) but many of our PEOPLE here expect to USE their AMERICAN DOLLARS to SETTLE all matters in AFRICA.

    Corporations are already DOING THAT.

    We will be even in MORE DISTRESS.

    We will STICK OUT like a SORE THUMB.

    We will then say its an AMERICAN VS NATIVE AFRICAN THING.

    Already bringing things down to a LOWER POINT.

    I have MORE but this is ENOUGH...

    So any DIASPORAN that can overcome these THREE in MASSES, then I am willing to PLAN this thing otherwise I just see us SPREADING to THINLY for an EARLY DEATH.

    I beleive we will go back to AFRICA but it will be by DIVINE METHODS.
     
  7. dustyelbow

    dustyelbow Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +21
    Lastly I have a PERSON (A FEMALE) who is of LATIN descent (SOUTH AMERICAN) that I KNOW from WORK who went to SOUTH AFRICA to TEACH and told me stories which some degrees of SEXISM. How her STUDENTS tried to make the HOOK UP.

    Not to boast but she was GLAD to be BACK in the US and lastly she said the best thing she could remember was ME and my ATTITUDE. She said it brought back a level of FAMILIARITY she MISSED.

    I think being in those EXCLUSIVE COMMUNITIES is a POTENTIAL PROBLEM Africa needs to ADDRESS in its own way vs. its PEOPLE.

    I see them EATING away alot of TIME and PRODUCTIVITY.
     
  8. Zulile

    Zulile Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    100
    Occupation:
    HR/Finance
    Ratings:
    +103
    dustyelbow - I feel a little distressed with your comments - although they are welcome and I appreciate your point of view.

    African <insert nationality here> shouldnt return to Africa if they are unwilling or unable or UNINTERESTED in adapting local culture. Take the Afro out of their title, and just be Black. That I can understand.

    I dont think there is much wrong with exclusive communities within Africa - there will always be rich and poor - but let it be a Black issue, an African issue - and not a racial one.

    The passport comment - I dont know what to say about that, as that is truly an American thing. I dont know ANYONE without a passport. I, myself, have 3 (well, 4 but one country has since been dissolved) including an American passport. Too much fear and not enough rationality. Yes - the lines may be long at some embassies to obtain a visa - but believe me - you lost a passport? You'll get in :) eventually.. hahaha

    Banking issues - When living as an African in Africa - your currency has value. you're not marching in as an american expat - you're joining a community - you'll earn local currency and spend it. But dont work for a major Corp, full of expats, and live secludedly amogst white expats.. and expected to be treated like a local. Think real.

    Those that sincerely want to return to Africa, will - without convincing. But you have many that are fearful - for lack of knowledge and full of prejudices.. not for fear of what they are leaving behind. many are welcome to the culture change, and are willing to give up the battle of race - for a battle of economics. Not realizing they are the diamond in the rough :)

    Lastly - regarding your latin friend - the west is too hung up on sex and sexuality! Plus, if she was there as a latino - she isnt Black, and would have been treated as such.

    :) I'm enjoying the discussion - no facts - only opinion. nice to hear/express without animosity!
     
  9. dustyelbow

    dustyelbow Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hey being DISTRESSED is REAL in this WORLD as ALL of US know.

    I deal with it day in and day out with BOTTOM BROKE BROTHERS and SISTERS.

    It's real and get even more REALER.

    But I have managed and it gave me some INSIGHTS I wouldnt find anywhere else.

    I just think many of us are NOT READY YET.

    That's why I say you cant be AVERAGE.

    That LATIN girl aint my FRIEND. Although she is FEMALE and I respect her VIEWS, I can tell SHE WAS NOT PREPARED.

    But she went ANYWAY and overall she is DONE with IT. I don't hear her going back anytime SOON.

    She use to offer me SOUTH AFRICAN tea. Which is quite pleasant.

    But that has DIED AWAY.

    She was under CONTRACT to do it. So she was not VOLUNTEERING without getting something back in RETURN.

    Like anybody that worked that KATRINA and NEW ORLEANS is not going back anytime SOON.

    It's HUMAN NATURE I guess.

    And I dont see myself in that SAME PREDICAMENT if placed in AFRICA.

    I am not spreading HATE just concern about EVERYONE involved.

    CONTINENTAL and AFRICAN <NATIONALITY>

    Both groups have plenty of work to be done.
     
  10. dustyelbow

    dustyelbow Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +21
    I think WESTERN society in general REFLECTS EXPATRIATE VALUES.

    I think REAL and to see and HEAR people overseas and born HERE say WHITE PEOPLE treat them better or HAVE BETTER STORES or DONT HAVE AN ATTITUDE etc.

    In Africa I can see those same PEOPLE which I dont MIND the COMPANY getting all FUSTRATED over these trivial MATTERS.

    But their VALUES become a REFLECTION of ME.

    I saw a WEST INDIAN (HAITIAN) and a CONTINENTAL AFRICA WOMEN BICKERING over a BUS SEAT and at least the CONTINENTAL AFRICAN said we are all BLACK PEOPLE but the WEST INDIAN person did not AGREE.

    Alot of HEAD GAMES there that will EXPLODE at any TIME.

    I think PAN AFRICAN forum have to lay it down, otherwise we are not going to be able to OVERCOME these technical DIFFICULTIES which will EAT away that INTRODUCTION 101 to AFRICA.


    Excuse me but let me use this not for you but that situation I mentioned here

    Oh well.
     
Loading...