Black People : Healthcare Racism or Reality???

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Full Speed, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    One of my facebook friends from the medical profession just posted this letter. It's obvious WHO the doctor is referring to when he says "pay for THEIR health care". Is this racism or reality?

    In the comments listed on the first posting of this back on the 11th of Sep, there are arguments for both sides. I try looking at things from all sides of an issue, in this case, I see merit on both sides of the issue...



    Pictured is a young physician by the name of Dr. Roger Starner Jones. His short... two-paragraph letter to the White House accurately puts the blame on a "Culture Crisis" instead of a "Health Care Crisis"..

    It's worth a quick read:


    Dear Mr. President:
    During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.


    While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one pack of cigarettes every day, eats only at fast-food take-outs, and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer. And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture" a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me". Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.

    Respectfully,
    ROGER STARNER JONES, MD



    some of the comments that where posted:

    23 people like this.
    XXXXXXX its like i'm reading my own thoughts!
    September 11 at 11:16am · 1 person
    XXXXXXXXX likes this.

    XXXXXXXAmen!
    September 11 at 11:16am ·

    XXXXXX Hi Doc, I totally agree with this. I see a lot of the same situation in my clinic. Labeled as "Medicaid" but wearing designer hang bags, iPhones, highly maintained appearance!!! What can we do to stop this?!?! :)
    September 11 at 11:16am ·


    XXXXXX The grill I just made was on a Medicaid patient and he paid thousands in cash up front for it.
    September 11 at 11:26am ·

    XXXXXX I have registered patients with Medicaid who are richly dressed and sport the same name brands I could never afford if I wanted to and who had no shame for being "taken care of".
    September 11 at 12:48pm · 1 person


    XXXXXX Very good point. Thanks for sharing. I totally agree.
    September 11 at 4:00pm ·

    XXXXXX i love this, and i totally agree! i reposted it, i hope you don't mind!
    September 14 at 1:51pm ·

    XXXXXX This is such a good thing. We need more professionals to send letters, because I see this all the time. I shared it on my facebook. I'm a nurse, and I see people who are dressed to the nine's but have medicaid on a day to day bases. The government needs a complete overhaul, and it will take working people to help push the issue.
    September 14 at 5:17pm ·

    XXXXXX Run for President!
    September 14 at 5:19pm · 1 person

    XXXXXX While to some extent he has a point about someONE's priorities, he also is comparing an entire "culture" to 1 patient. If his statistical population increases, his case would approach consideration as valid. Research/logical fallacy: Secundum quid.
    September 14 at 9:22pm

    XXXXXX [email protected] you a health care professional? The majority of the patients who come to university hospitals are very similar to Dr. Starner's patient. While I don't mind helping those who need help it troubles me a great deal to see so many who would abuse the system rather than work hard and take care of themselves.
    September 14 at 10:22pm

    XXXXXXI've worked in the health care system for years. Currently, I'm a DPT student set to graduate in 2012. There will always be a system that someone abuses. e.g. Justice System, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment Service, Emergen...cy Services, Student Loans, School Lunch Programs, etc.. Just because a system can be abused, doesn't mean that we should remove it. Instead, refine it, adjust it, make it work more efficiently. I'm a huge fan of capitalism b/c of the incentive/drive it gives us, but when it comes to life and death, there should be no compromise. Any healthcare professional can look into there own respective Code of Ethics and justify this.See More
    September 14 at 10:36pm

    XXXXXX [email protected] one mentioned about "removing" the system---it is there to help those in need. I concur with Dr. Starner when he suggested "fixing the culture crisis." BTW, does DPT = doctor of physical therapy?
    September 14 at 10:47pm ·

    XXXXXX Still, unless someone can present statistically sound research on the culture [of Americans who use Medicaid (I presume)], there should be no conclusions drawn from a viral thread of one story about one patient. I'm not sure if you or the others attached to this picture know it, but this link is spreading about fb being used as Republican ammunition...especially in the deep south. You are correct though about the DPT.
    September 14 at 11:02pm ·

    XXXXXX [email protected] live in the deep south and I'm NOT a republican. I'm a clinical pharmacist who has been in practice over 20 years. I've worked in university hospitals, private hospitals and retail. Sadly, I see a lot of the same type of patients that Dr. Starner mentioned. BTW, he actually trained where I work and was an ER resident under my husband's supervision---my hubby's NOT a republican either.
    Wednesday at 7:45am

    XXXXXX Regardless of political party. We all have the same goal, to fix the problem. I totally agree with what this doctor has to say. I mean you say that only one type of patient is being discussed but it is almost impossible to talk about medica...id and this "stereotype" not come to mind. I think it's fair to say that the majority of people who have Medicaid, would fall in this category. Therefore I feel his point is not invalid by only discussing 1 patient. This patient is representative of the abusers of the system. Of course, we can't just erase the system, but something must be done to make sure those who are really in need of help are taken care of. Like you say, someone will always abuse the government systems set up to help those in need, but i do think a good start to fixing the " Heath care crisis" is addressing this "culture crisis." See More
    Wednesday at 8:45am

    XXXXXX This has taken on a life of its own. I am overwhelmed with responses. Interesting that you mention you are not a republican. I had not considered it having to do with being a republican or democrat. You may not have seen my post earlier today, but I have learned the letter was to an editor of a newspaper, not to the president. The issues mentioned in the letter have been going on way before Obama became president.
    Wednesday at 4:30pm ·

    XXXXXX It's amazing that this editorial comment, validated by snopes.com, came out in 2009 before the heath care reform bill. I'd still rather throw the K Street lobbyists into the Potomac River before any of the ill-informed, unaware people not taking care of themselves better.
    Wednesday at 4:48pm

    XXXXXXA doctor probably wouldn't say it for liability reasons. doctors sneeze and their insurance goes up!
    Wednesday at 4:52pm

    XXXXXXThis has been a lesson to me about the power of facebook. A friend sent me the letter and photo in an email. I am rather new to facebook and thought I would experiment with posting info from an email. It happened to work and it has gone wild. I have learned it was actually sent as a letter to the editor of a newspaper, not to the president. I posted another message this morning on facebook correcting the origin of the letter.
    Wednesday at 5:24pm

    XXXXXX Regardless of who wrote this, I'd still rather throw the K Street lobbyists into the Potomac River!
    Wednesday at 5:25pm

    XXXXXX A K Street lobbyist wrote this - he he he
    Wednesday at 5:33pm


    XXXXXXI feel that instead of thinking about the real issues with our current/past health care system, not that the uninsured are not part of the problem, but in my opinion the biggest problem was that insurance premiums were/are outrageous ( whic...h leads to more and more people becoming uninsured). Premiums were raising 3x faster than inflation so if something wasn't done then everyone would be the person in the ER that the "doctor" was referring to. And although it would be nice if the government would be able to pull away and leave businesses to their own accord, unfortunately that is not reality, the almighty dollar controls big business. This is not to say that it doesn't control many things so I would prefer not to get a thousand messages saying just that. I just wish that people would wake up and realize that, as i said before, even though it would be nice to have a smaller government and let businesses take care of things, it just won't always work. I am in the field of behavior analysis, in which our purpose is to study behavior and reveal what the function of that behavior is (why someone is doing what they are doing). We look at things from a behavior's standpoint, not by what race, sex, age, religion, etc someone might be. And if you look at things from a behavior analytic perspective it is much easier to understand the problems that this country faces. I challenge people to take a day and step foot in any urban school or extremely rural school. No child left behind wanted to raise the standards placed on the students but it didn't raise the standards placed on the teachers. Standard for teachers in the poorly scoring schools are generally lower, and standards in higher education for those studying to become teachers are ridiculously low. So tell me this, how is someone who is raised by people who do not have an adequate education (because they were sent to school with inadequate teachers) and then sent to a school where they do not have teachers who have not had an adequate education and also who are not equipped with the skills needed to deal with problem behaviors, ever supposed to become educated or skilled enough to one qualify for college or get any type of job that pays enough to A. live off of and B. be able to afford insurance. And this is not me bashing teachers because my in my opinion teachers are the most under-appreciated and under paid professionals that we have, and there are a lot of very wonderful highly educated teachers out there, unfortunately many of them do not go where they are needed the most because schools that are full of behavioral issues are extremely intimidating especially when said teachers are not trained to deal with those types of issues. We have a broken system that is compiled of many problems that date back farther than Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, etc. At this point this country is doing itself a disservice by pointing our fingers at a poor under-privileged section of society and just saying well if they could go out and get a job!... That is not how it works people. Think about the steps it takes to get a job you have to apply for a job, to even be eligible for that job you have to have marketable skills that apply to that field. There are only so many jobs out there that require either little to no experience or formal education. And with the rising costs of insurance and the sneaky ways of many big business (the loop-poles they have discovered to get around providing coverage for employees at that level) it is not realistic or right for anyone to think that certain sections of society would even be able to afford insurance. I could go on and on about my ideas on how to create welfare reform, increase the return from social systems such as prisons, but I will spare you. And I do want to say that none of my opinions voice today are a reflections of a political party but more so my education and back-ground in behavior analysis.

    Sorry that this is so long and if no one reads it fine, I just needed to voice my opinion. Take it or leave it, but please open you eyes, we all need to look at the problems and figure out how to move forward.See More
    Wednesday at 8:29pm ·

    XXXXXXThank You, Richard, for offering me an opportunity to post this response. I only hope to spur honest dialogue, albeit discourse some might find disagreeable. Are we really to take this anecdote of dubious origins as acceptable commentary on... the state of "culture"? Several questions are begged when reading this: 1) How does the doctor know how expensive her shoes are? One can go downtown, stand on any corner, and purchase imitation Nikes that -- while looking like the real thing -- will run you just $5. 2) Had the ringtone been something other than R&B -- say, perhaps, a Polka song -- would that have undercut any legitimacy the author of this letter hoped to have in attendance? It's an invocation of racially tinged vagaries (R&B being the assumed choice of this tanned-skinned undesirable) that isn't at all relevant to what is presumably the aim of this letter. One would think this "doctor" would add that she came with a basketball underneath her arm. 3) Does this one example speak to the demonstrably exorbitant price of healthcare that wreaks havok on the finances of even those who are middle class (or upper class, even)? This story, the authenticity of which remains questionable, is in the same vein of anecdotal pieces uttered by the likes of a Rush Limbaugh over the airwaves. Limbaugh gives daily harangues about "welfare queens" who drive brand new Cadillacs or Mercedes and watch Oprah on their 60inch HDTV from a jacuzi in their "Section 8" apartment. A caricature, unquestionably, but a harmful stereotype nonetheless. It's a convenient tale that cheaply evokes resentment without imparting any real substance on the state of our Health Care system -- or, more importantly, society. It's lapped up by people who'd rather not exercise critical thought and truly assess the issues at hand, feeling as if that takes too much energy. We can share this story at the bar, with raised fists, and join in a chorus that decries those "Dirty Poors!!!!" But, at its core, it is a hollow and fairly unambiguous slap at the lower class. I would say, to the author of this letter, to be a little more subtle and less blatant in their aim.See More
    Wednesday at 8:41pm


    XXXXXX I have to agree with the "doctor", however, i do not think that americans abusing assistance programs is either parties fault. I was just speaking with friends about how frustrating the abuse is, but also the programs themselves. i.e. the food stamp program. i can buy all the candy and junk food i want but i cant buy any fresh foods from the deli or fresh cut fruit. Fixing these programs in a manner that can help reduce people from abusing them and also bettering themselves is priority..no matter what party.
    Wednesday at 8:43pm

    XXXXXXthis is fake and pathetic just say his race???

    gold tooth? you appraised "jeweler and a DR" hmmm

    pretzels and beer? $1..
    ...
    R&B ring tone? free and why R&B it was classical hmmm

    designer tennis shoes? hmm what designer were they $5 knock offs or you so the receipt?

    every time you knock some one is down its harder for them to get up, keep that in mind in the event you ever need help and want to judge, and the president is not responsible for reforming Americans personal budgets, every has there part in this world and yes some people fall short but they belong to someone and are human.

    85% percent of my neighborhood are umemployed white woman and 8 of them live with their mate who works and they collect welfare have a min or 2-4kids except for one has 1, the 3 minorities all have 1 child and work full-tme except for one whom is a grandfatherSee More
    Wednesday at 8:47pm

    XXXXXXIt's difficult to see how one can agree with this presumed "doctor" when it's already established that this missive isn't of authentic origins. It's easy to package the behavioral traits of an entire culture into one person, if you're looki...ng for a convenient means to dismiss any arguments that don't comport with your position. Try stepping back and viewing them as human beings. Make an attempt to recognize that the stereotype illustrated by this letter is not representative of all people who have availed themselves of the services available through government subsidized health care. That's the point.See More
    Wednesday at 8:51pm

    XXXXXX I mentioned the very same points. How challenging is it to read this and see that it's not exactly subtle in how it paints the patient in question. I would hope that most people, including those that have disagreements with health care reform as it is presently framed, can see how crudely painted the caricature in this "letter" is.
    Wednesday at 8:56pm


    XXXXXX, I hope that is what was conveyed in my message, that it doesn't do any good placing blame, stereotyping, etc. We need to dissect the problem to find its root (not who is at fault) but instead what is the cause of the problems so they can be fixed from the ground up, instead of all of this putting band-aids BS that we seem to be doing a lot of lately to pacify the people who are whining and complaining as quickly as possible.
    Wednesday at 9:03pm · Molly Gummersall Brittain, absolutely. Everyone will take what they will from this made up letter.Obviously it has gone in MANY different dicections. But it is what we do about it that makes all the difference.
    Wednesday at 9:08pm

    XXXXXXyes we do! well got to go cook dinner! yum yum! think positive! everyone!
    Wednesday at 9:08pm

    XXXXXXI'd rather that we look at the ugliness that underscores the manufacturing of this false missive, the idea that one pers on -- a grotesque caricature -- is representative of ALL those who're suffering from an inadequate health care system. ...That is the main issue. It's not about Health Care any longer, and it may never have been. It's about an elite group of people sowing an extremist view of regular Americans, for the purpose of preserving the class divisions that are becoming far more obvious in the midst of our current economic climate.See More
    Wednesday at 9:13pm


    XXXXXX someone please explain to me how this man described a "false situation" ......that happens in every emergency room across the nation every single day. Are you going to say the sun rising is a "false situation" next? Been there done that see...n it got the TShirt. Statistically speaking ERs of hospital are the worst business of hospitals. They waste more resources than any of part. If you do not believe what this doctor says, go to Parkland ER in Dallas TX on a friday night or any night to get your headache treated (because my headache that I couldn't cure with 10 vicodin and a cocktail while out on the town with friends is an emergency) and watch how many pregnant women are there to give birth that have never seen OBs for wellness checks or prenatal vitamins. What is lacking in these situations is EDUCATION, SELF DRIVE, and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.There is an old saying, goes something like this. "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink." Not much will change unless someone actually figures out how to influence mentality of our citizens. The answer is NOT making others pay for it either. That is just a patch of a small hole in a rapidly collapsing dam. Would you ask an engineer or a teacher to work for half their wages, maybe the president, or congressman, how bout policeman and fireman? and let us ignore the couple hundred thousand dollars of college loans....this Emergency Physician is repaying. I seriously doubt this physician would mind taking caring of sensibly minded individuals with true health concerns as neither do I. You ask for the highest quality healthcare with the best results, we ask for a little sensibility and responsible patients. Today, I took care of a man that received a heart transplant. It was a long surgery but we pulled through.

    Sincerely,

    XXXXXX, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Cardiac Intensive CareSee More
    Wednesday at 10:07pm

    XXXXXXIt's a false and manufactured story designed to evoke resentment of the underclass. If it wasn't, why insert the trivia of having an R&B ringtone? What relevance, even within the context of stressing her abuse of the system, does that traff...ic to this discussion? It's a crude and unsubtle reference to her "culture" that was entirely unnecessary. Taking that into consideration, it becomes obvious that this letter's author is not the slightest bit interested in an honest and open discussion about Health Care reform and the need to make these services affordable. No, he/she would rather stress that this R&B-listening, Nike Air Jordan-wearing, Gold Tooth flashing miscreant is representative of ALL people who're desperately in need of health care services that are prohibitively priced. Are there people who abuse the system? Of course. Exceptions exist to every rule, but they are never meant to be taken as wholly reflective of the body. They are but one part.

    If this story came without the cheap class/race-tinged suggestions, it would be received with more credibility than it now is. Unfortunately, as presently written, it's nothing more than another attempt to pit one class against the other.See More
    Wednesday at 10:28pm

    XXXXXXAnd, no one is demanding the "highest quality healthcare with the best results." They are asking for an equitable system that addresses the gross disparity in service. When HMO executives take home $20 million in annual pay, while a family ...suffers bankruptcy after seeking treatment for an ailment one of them is stricken with, it becomes ever so clear what the problem is.

    THAT is reality -- not this deceitful stereotype passed off some a genuine anecdote.See More
    Wednesday at 10:32pm

    XXXXXXMy solution certainly doesn't consist of drawing up a parody and passing it off as an authentic representation of your average emergency room patient.

    I don't know what the solutions are. I think the issues at hand are very hard to grasp, a...lmost labyrinthine in their complexity. We're at the mercy of a system fashioned off various controls that serve just one purpose: the preservation of wealth in a minority of highly monied elites. Until we address that glaring truth of Western society, these discussions will never amount to anything but that -- a discussion.See More
    Wednesday at 10:57pm

    XXXXXXThe solution is you all stop complaining and arguing. You're on facebook for god sake! Take all the passionate opinions to town meetings and polls. Get out and make a difference. More people vote for American Idol than they do for the Presidential candidates. You have all said your peace right, well if you still are that concerned about it, do something constructive.
    Wednesday at 11:03pm

    XXXXXX unfortunately your account that hospitals give away millions of dollars in free health care every year, isn't exactly true, everyone who steps foot in the hospital and their insurance companies are already paying for it, why do you th...ink a hospital visit or and overnight stay in a hospital is so expensive, or you could go even smaller, why does a single aspirin cost at least $10, one aspirin really? Because hospitals realize that they are going to get patients without healthcare who are not going to be able to pay their bills and they account for that. But this does not mean that it is right or does any good to point fingers or place blame on those who are abusing the system. As I stated above the answer lies in education and doing something ANYTHING to drive down the costs of insurance premiums. As long as we as a society continue to accept a probably less than 3rd rate education for a large population of society, we as a society are going to continue to produce the very people that we constantly complain about. If a child gets behind in kindergarten, then a little further behind in first grade, and so on, it is near impossible for the child to be eligible for college or probably any type of trade school, thus then going out into society with zero marketable skills, still needing to pay their bills and take care of their family. Between jobs shifting to machines doing the work or outsourcing jobs in other countries, there are not near enough jobs to go around for people with a poor education and little to no skills. So then what??? Turn to whatever assistance you can get social programs, its not their fault that these social programs have no contingencies attached to them, and as a behaviorist I can tell you that if strict contingencies are not in place then people are going to abuse the system, but that is not a reflection of any specific culture, that is purely a reflection of HUMAN BEHAVIOR. Yes, people need to take responsibility, but who those people are is the real question, are they the people who are not educated enough to be able to help themselves out of their own situation? Or is it the people who have accepted these ridiculous schools all of these years because their children didn't have to go to school there and then get angry because they don't understand why "those people won't just stop being lazy and get a job". I would like to ask what job would they get???See More
    Wednesday at 11:56pm

    XXXXXXWell, Tommy, the "doctor" is describing a "common situation" that I have no experiential knowledge of. I might have taken his account more seriously had he not inserted completely irrelevant details about this supposed patient, details that... exist to serve but one purpose: the intimation of this individual's ethno-cultural background.

    I'm sure there are plenty of observably respectable citizens (in suits and ties, with their brooks brothers penny loafers) who come into the emergency room because they're hypochondriacs.

    I'm sure any number of people coming into any random emergency room are there for issues that aren't exactly the definition of an "emergency." But I don't see this "doctor" highlighting those cases.

    Instead, I see this "doctor" making an emotional appeal by way of inserting cultural markers that exist to imply that this patient is one of....those people.

    It isn't subtle, it isn't intelligent, and it doesn't speak to the inequities of our Health Care system. But it is a cute little story that privileged sorts can disseminate and cite when looking to justify positions that they really can't defend on any logical and substantive grounds.See More
    Thursday at 1:24am

    XXXXXXThis is what I find humorous, out of everything that I have posted the comment that you find necessary to post about is the aspirin. I did not once state that I thought that the hospitals are wrong in inflating their prices, because if the...y did not then they would not be able to pay their bills and pay their employees, so yes technically people are receiving free health care, but it is not free in the sense that the hospitals are just eating the costs. And just as I get paid for what I do everyone else deserves that as well. The point that I feel like you are not quite grasping is that it goes much deeper that telling people that they need to live more conservatively, sorry friend if you haven't noticed yet that doesn't work. That being said it not working does not make it the fault of the uneducated either. Many people's option is to just take social programs away. Ok then what, then you have an entire section of society homeless, children starving, people living in the street, it wouldn't be long until our already high crime rates got higher. Why because people are going to do whatever is necessary to get what they need. Yes everyone should learn not to be selfish and to do their part, but for those people who do not have a sufficient enough education to support themselves, they should share??? share what I ask you? I am just saying that people need to take a deeper look at the problem and where is starts and it is most definitely not the uninsured and uneducated. The uninsured and educated IS a huge problem, but that is where we need to look further for and explanation and a remedy, not where we need to place blame. Because at the end of the day what does placing that blame do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but piss people off and divide people more. Instead try to figure out exactly why those people are uninsured and uneducated, and does this without saying "they are just lazy". Because as someone who is very fluent in human behavior I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt 99% of the time that is not the case. If you would like me to explain why I am so certain just ask.See More
    Thursday at 1:33am

    XXXXXX lol say hosptals will do the right thing even if there expensive fuckit they wil still get the job done ya dig
    Thursday at 11:19am

    XXXXXXCRISIS CULTURE. this is true. however, if you ask me right now if everyone can get the 'someone will always take care of me' ration - i will say no. the rescue family i mentioned tried to apply for aid after losing their job:

    1. they were to...ld they had to wait 2 weeks for an appointment for aid - not to receive aid - bu...t to be told if they are eligible and what
    paperwork to bring for the next appt. aid has up to 30 days to give them ANY aid. what are they supposed to eat for 2 weeks or more?

    2. they were told they would receive no cash unless they were 'disabled' or over 65. how do people spend all that money on aid if they don't get cash? they're all 'disabled' on prozac and 'can't work.'

    3. they were told they cannot get a bus pass - so how are they supposed to get to interviews?

    4. they were told they can't ever again as long as they receive aid -
    BUY PAPER TOWELS, TISSUES. good thing there is not a female in the house or they could not buy TAMPONS.

    5. i'd like to ask where the women on aid who are not 'disabled' are getting tampons.

    6. they were told emergency expedite for aid is not an option unless they are over 65 or disabled.

    7. they were told they cannot receive a voucher for the nearest food
    pantry - and they don't have a bus pass to get there anyway - because they had income in the last 30 days.

    8. unemployment takes 3 weeks to arrive. but if you have a disagreement with your employer, and the employer contests, your unemployment is held up 5 weeks. and you only get a week of unemployment for the first receipt. so you have to wait another two weeks for another check. that's 7 weeks on one weekly unemployment check.

    not ironically, everyone in their neighborhood has an aid card and no
    one seems to have any problem buying a new jacket. the hair and nail salons are packed.

    what priscilla way said: run for president.See More
    Thursday at 11:23am


    XXXXXWhen you place a financial incentive on even basic necessities, such as housing and health care, you reduce the human condition to the state of a commodity -- a product to be bartered.

    We have become living currency, essentially. Like the p...aper dollars in our pocket, human beings are now traded on a market, exchanged for a return that could never reach the value of human life.

    But that's how the current system now operates. Human Life has no intrinsic value, outside of its role in fueling this economy off which -- again -- a minority hoards resources and "wealth" that the vast majority will never touch.

    This debate, like many before it, reveals how this system fundamentally discourages an appreciation of human life.

    That's what I find so tragic.See More
    Thursday at 12:39pm

    XXXXXXyes, everything you say.
    Thursday at 12:42pm

    XXXXX That's just a rant. This is my counter rant. Nicotine and alcohol are addictive, and rather than blame the victims as individuals as victims, I, also, would express my concern to the society which encourages the use. (smoking is certainly ...on the decline finally)....... However, prohibition of alcohol was tried once in this country and will not be tried again.

    I was a big-time alky. Dozens of nights I spent over $200 or $300 ... which was the ATM daily withdrawl limit.

    In my poverty I had decided that $2 could buy me a beer for one hour, or that $2 could be used for a pack of cigarettes for 24 hours. So I quit drinking.

    As society changed, I also quit smoking.

    Now, material goods I have never partaken. So, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I don't have a golden grill in my pie hole. May I please have medical coverage, now, good doctor?

    Just to be clear on my sarcasm, I'd rather be dead than ask for help from high and mighty ********. Nonetheless, it's society's decision, not his nor mine.See More
    Thursday at 8:09pm


    XXXXXXI just wanted to point out that despite he says something that maybe a new idea to some, he completely avoids giving a solution. He 'reassigns' the problem. The problem was 'we could have universal healthcare if the govt had more money'. he... changes the problem to 'we wouldn't need more money for healthcare if the govt focused on changing the culture'. Which I think is complete nonsense in a democratic republic. The govt is made 'by the people' by definition, so how is the govt suppose to change 'how the people act'? The people shape the govt, not the other way around :) He only said to do that, not how to do that. If there were a more concrete, specific ... or even feasible... idea, then it would perhaps be constructive criticism. He missed by a mile though. All he is doing is seeding dissent, which is evil in my book. He says to fix the culture which is impossible and rather trite.See More
    Thursday at 8:11pm

    XXXXXXX I've received a number of messages insisting that this "doctor" was relating an experience that is all too common. If that's the case, why the comments about the "R&B" ring tone?

    It would seem that some people don't quite grasp how this "do...ctor" undercuts his own argument by inserting language that is unmistakable in its implication.

    To those of you who may have some disagreements with what I've written, I would ask that you look at what the "doctor" wrote, take out the cultural "markers" that he decided to insert, and re-read it in its revised state.

    I think you'll notice how some may have more respect for what this "doctor" has to say about the state of our Health Care system had this missive not been accompanied by vaguely racial language that has nothing to do with reforming Health Care.See More
    Thursday at 8:19pm

    XXXXXXyou will always have to pay, weather you like it or not..lol that's just the way things are. I don't agree with the person who was being seen but in regards to people that actually need medicaid because they are disabled, or their children disabled, unfortunately they are the ones that pay for idiots like this, they get treated the same way as the people who abuse the system, and as a result they get rude and uncaring physicians. People now a days don't care about one another. Everyone is in it for the money.
    Thursday at 10:40pm

    XXXXXXWell, we were bred in a system designed around the idea of assigning a financial incentive to everything we trade, be it the shirt off our back or our labor. I have no problem with that, for what it's worth, but I do have a problem with the... inequities of how that system assigns value.

    When a basic necessity of living such as Health Care is perverted to exploit the masses for financial gain that awards just a few, there is a problem.

    Contrary to what some people have charged me with, I am not anti-capitalist or communist in my opposition to the underlying premise of this letter.

    Rather, I am just someone who recognizes how the system of Health Care is now -- like almost every industry in Western society -- corrupted by venal men to leech from the many to benefit the few.See More
    Thursday at 11:19pm ·
     
  2. bientempo

    bientempo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Have an Idea

    Come to the DR and work in a Medicaid HMO service. Have been handed off to secretarys to finalize changes in doctors, been told that to call them back as their cel battery is low, here is the home number. Why do we only get $25 worth of Over the Counter stuff per household why not per child(this includes everything from baby asprin to ky jelly and condoms). Not all callers are black and not all are white, some are spanish, russian, haitian, etc. dont think the good doctors letter is racist. Florida Kid Care is in three languages. This was in place prior to Obama, and ensures that most if not all childern under 18 in the state of florida have some kind of insurance.
     
  3. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I don't follow what you are getting at? Could you reword or otherwise restructure your point?
     
  4. bientempo

    bientempo Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    sorry was referencing this line

    One of my facebook friends from the medical profession just posted this letter. It's obvious WHO the doctor is referring to when he says "pay for THEIR health care". Is this racism or reality?

    Come to the DR and work in a Medicaid HMO service handling Medicaid customers.
    I Have been handed off to secretarys to finalize changes in doctors. How does someone with a secretary qualify for Medicaid.

    Another question Why do we only get $25 worth of Over the Counter stuff per household why not per child(this includes everything from baby asprin to ky jelly and condoms). What other health insurance give out free asprin, condoms, cotton balls, there are like 90 different items on the list.

    Not all callers are black and not all are white, some are spanish, russian, haitian, etc. dont think the good doctors letter is racist. As you are insinuationg. with the comment about racist or reality.

    Florida Kid Care is in three languages. This was in place prior to Obama, and ensures that most if not all childern under 18 in the state of florida have some kind of insurance.
     
  5. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I noticed in discussing the various patient situations you mentioned you didn't bother to make referenc to the choice of music the patient preferred. That, with reference to the "expensive shiney gold teeth" appeared to me as an obvious attempt to make clear that his letter was in reference to a "BLACK" "Culture Crisis". Having made these statements connected with the "Culture Crisis" statement, it is clear that he mention "pay for THEIR health care" He is talking about Black people.

    I have no doubt that the doctors letter is from a racial perspective. Even if it is, I am not one to discredit something someone say based upon who they are as opposed to the merit of what they are saying, as it should be.

    I don't want to pay for the healthcare of someone who has a secretary nor someone who has a series of indicators of wasteful spending while having me pay for their essentials.
     
  6. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    All due respect do you expect folks to read that first post?

    ?
     
  7. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Mostly just the doctors' letter highlighted in Dark Red. From that point on is just comments from various folks who have read the doctors' letter. IF and only IF folks are interested in the comments of others, they can read all, none, or pick and choose the ones that interest them. The point is that this issue generated a ton of feedback, demonstrating that it is obviously a very sensitive issue.
     
  8. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    why bother?

    :10500: just more racist crap from the right........
     
  9. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Personally, I look at just about everything with an open mind and from several persectives. IMO, the presentation itself is racist, but the issue parallels our previous discussion concerning people who waste money they could be spending on essentials such as medicine and health insurance, to buy non-essentials such as jewlry and designer clothing.

    Therefore, for me, this isn't about "right" or "left", "liberal" or "conservative"...to me it's about common sense, responsible living, individual accountability, and most importantly for us LIVING the way we need to live to become independent rather than perpetually DEPENDENT!

    If we cannot confront and deal with issues like this, we don't have what it takes to be a free and independent people. I submit that we do have what it takes, but we simply must live like self-sustaining, independent, people.
     
  10. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    more racist crap

    if you truly do believe that the main thing holding back people down is poor spending and budget habits i have some real estate that i want to discuss with you.
     
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