Black Entertainment : HAS THE GREAT INSTRUMENTAL LEGACY OF BLACK AMERICA BEEN DESROYED BY HIPHOP SAMPLING?

Isaiah

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Jun 8, 2004
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Firstly, let me initiate this post by saying that it was my generation that took great R&B records, and began the trend(now a full-blown phenomenon)of rapping over the instrumental breaks in those records... That was the early 1970's, and we "stole" that artform from the great African American DJ's, like Frankie "the Chief Rocka" Crocker, who broadcast over AM-RADIO, WWRL-1600, and later at WBLS-FM, 107.5 NEW YORK... Frankie Crocker, of course, had "stolen" this idea from the countless Black legends of the airwaves, who started this trendof hip, smooth, rhythmic eloquence way back in the 1940's, when African Americans showed white radio station owners that there was a tremendous, untapped and neglected, economic market in Black America... Those great smoothies and fast-talkers like, the Great Al Benson of Chicago, Eddie O'Jay of WLIB New York, and Hal Jackson of Washington, paved the way for "Hollywood" Crocker and The Cool Gent Herb Kent of Chicago, to become legends whom they name streets after(smile!) Jack "The Rapper" Gibson of Atlanta, Georgie Woods of Philadelphia, and Douglas "Jocko" Henderson of Baltimore/Philly/New York, are absolutely legends in the business of radio, and it was these cats whom the early rappers patterned themselves after. It was these wizards who first began the practice of rapping "over" a record, and on instrumental breaks...

Back in the day, they rapped over music made with REAL instruments, and albums oft contained tremendous instrumentals, such as those made by MFSB, the Salsoul Orchestra, Love Unlimited Orchestra, Grover Washington's classic, Mr. Magic, or Kool&TheGang's, Summer Madness... Brothers often used those riffs in their street presentations of the baby they were bringing to birth, and they often played the entire record - not just short verses of the song... Back then, also, there was no shortage of Black Musicians to fill our lives with their gift... As a lyrical riff from Kool&TheGang said, "we're scientists of sound, mathematically puttin' it down!" Today, with so much use of sampling, and the absolute trashing of Jazz and the Blues by African young folks, I wonder if there are competent musicians around to continue the great musical legacy of African Americans???

This aint no riff on young folks... It is about comparison and contrast... No generational thing here, as I know my parents hated Earth Wind & Fire and The Jackson Five like I can only tolerate my children's music... I'm just wondering if our community has lost something precious because of our dependence on machines and fast-food music??? If we go back to those albums which most of Rap is sampled from, you begin to understand that a little piece of a pie can never quite measure up to the WHOLE Pie, which would include wonderful instrumental music made by and for African people... I hope I didn't ramble here, as my question is, have we lost something special by not producing the great musicians in our communities, as we once did???

Peace!
Isaiah
 
you make some very good points indeed. I will say this though. Like yourself I grew up listening to classice r&b in the early sixties while in grade school. So I Know what you mean about musicianship. On the other hand rap developed as an alternative music genre, and was an outgrowth of hip hop in general.

Rap was initially supposed to be a "fringe" form of music from the streets and basketball courts. DJ's garnered as much and sometimes more notiriety than the rappers themselves. I think the shift from the focus on R&B came because at this time the late 70's rap was thought of as something new and innovative, and in many ways it was.

Subsequently the record companies caught on by the early 80's and slowly but surely rap became mainstream. Much of this was done with the assistance of the black A&R man and woman. So I would have to say that black people let it get to this stage, for better or worse.
 
I think Hip Hop and All Music Genres suffer from one problem.

Folks is trying to make money.

Yall old folks had Radio, we have MTV and VH1. Thus a musician did not need an image; for example, yall had alot of Ugly Singers in Comprasion to todays musicians. Curtis Mayfield was pretty boo boo looking in comparsion to say Tyrese. But the thing that mattered back in the days was content. Good Music sold back in the day, now if you lack image and good music you will polietly be shunned away by todays consumer.

It is a very sad state indeed, Music companies are no longer ran by muscians, they run by people with MBA's and CEO's. These folks want dollars, they do not care about quality of music. Thus the decline of music across the broad, not just in hip hop alone.

For Example:

As Ugly as Curtis Mayfield was he would not make today simply because of his image. If you are not handsome or a beautiful you cannot sell, period.

Compare these artists:

Jill Scott, Angie Stone, Kelly Price - Plus Sized great voices.

Alicia Keys, Ashanti, and Beyonce - Personally Jill and Angie and Kelly could destroy them in singing, but since they lack the image, these three aformentioned artists sell more records.

MC Lyte, Bahamida, Monie Love - Great Lyricsts.

Eve, Trina, - Simply sell more records because they show leggs and booty. They cannot even compare to the above three as far as content, but they lack image, thus if they were out now, they would have it bad.

Q-Tip, Slick Rick, Krs-One - Hip Hop Greats by far.

Nelly and 50-cent - Will probably sell more records than those three combined not because of their content, but simply because of image. Both of these artists are double platinum, the above 3 I think never shared this glory.

That is just the plain truth as I see it, it is even like that in my industry of film so I feel it also.
 
I'm not really familiar with as many old school songs as some others, but I will say this, rap is crap nowadays. It's not even as good as it was in the 90's. I think that there is just a lack of creativity, because there doesn't have to be any for these guys to go platinum. Our expectations are so low now that anyone who comes out with a record is getting paid big. All these cats with the bling bling goin on aren't doin all that much entertaining. They sell because we don't expect anything out of our music anymore. It's a shame. We know on every album they are gonna sample tracks like crazy, so it doesn't shock us anymore. There have been so many rappers and singers that release their first single totally shredding an old school track, and like idiots we buy it, then we buy the album and find out that the musician has no talent. IMO black music is at it's worst right now because all we have is clowns on tv rapping and singing, who have absolutely no talent at all. Come on: Nelly, Ludacris, J-Kwon, Big Tymers, T.I., Chingy, All the ROC, Petey Pablo, Murphy Lee, Lloyd Banks, 50 Cent, Twista, Ying Yang, Lil Jon, Eminem, Lil Flip, Cassidy, D12....need I say more. These are the guys taking over hip hop right now. That's sad.
 
MANASIAC said:
I think Hip Hop and All Music Genres suffer from one problem. Folks is trying to make money."

Brother Manasiac, firstly, you'll find that when you're 45 like I am, you most certainly will Not perceive yourself as old - trust!(smile!) Secondly, making money in the record business is not a new concept... Ask James Brown, who just sold his "old" music catalogue for a cool 30-mill... Thirdly, image in the entertainment industry is nothing new either, and I would in no way compare a Tyrese to Sam Cooke or Teddy Pendergrass as pertains to appearance(smile!)

If you're talking about the profit motive being the cause and effect of bad music, I don't know that I buy that completely... Record companies and labels back then didn't give a **** about making art for art's sake, anymore than do the conglomerates of today... They had in common, the desire to make and produce something the public would buy, and milk them and the artists for all the moola they could make... They may talk glowingly of how they just loved the music and artists of that era, but ask the artists of that era 'where was the love?', and they'll tell you its location was eye-level with the bottom line...

What produced great music back then was musicians who had to create original material from the recesses of their imaginations... Some read music, and still others, like Marvin and Barry White, did not, but even they played piano and drums(in Marvin's case)... Also, the Black church was essential in the making of both the musicians and their music... That was our academy of music, and it trained both instrumentalists and vocalists for decades, sending them out into the world, fully finished and polished entertainers... Today, with The Winans, Clarke Sisters, Donnie McClurkin, and John P. Kee making as much money as Tyrese doing Gospel music, there's no need to go that route anymore... That is just another factor causing the disintegration of R&B...

Brother Sekhemu, once again, you were on point when you said that this situation is of our making... We failed to control our creative property, and white folks did as they've been doing for centuries, and appropriated it... Now, they've got Kid Rock, Justin, and Eminem so-called "representin" our art forms much in the way they foisted Elvis on the public as King of Rock&Roll... The more things change, the more they stay the same...(smile!)

Peace!
isaiah
 

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