Black People : Has Black Nationalism died? How?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by KingSango, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    I've had some critics on here that I don't have in real life situations talking to people about my visions of Black Nationalism. I can't equate this with envy or enemies of our struggle or just clashing prides. I think there's a fundamental difference in how many of us see this struggle for liberation and what can be the most complete solution. I myself do not view integration as a solution. I know there must be some sovereignty on our part in order to have the complete freedom to determine our own destiny in order to compete with the rest of the world in development.

    I've disagreed with some ideas that seem to me to run away from the goal of actual land ownership and sovereignty. Without self rule there's simply no way we can expect our full rights as human beings nor be able to fully offer our contribution to the world and achieve international respect. Our lives are valueless in a society where we have no more rights than Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin or Oscar Grant. Without land we can't build any structures, industries and infrastructure to demonstrate to the world what we are capable of as a people with an established long history and tradition as coming from West Africa.

    What are the failures of Black Nationalist organizations who claim they want and believe that African diaspora can have independent nation status? Where is the land? Besides Oyo Tunji there's not one other Black Nationalists organization that has decided towards land ownership. Also besides Oyo Tunji there's not one Black Nationalist organization that has been recognized by an empire in Africa. We are failing as Black Nationalists to see the vision of our fallen and ancestors who paved the way for us. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Noble Drew Ali, Marcus Garvey and many others who spoke about, lived, and promoted Black Nationalism as not a theory but a practice.

    So when I asked can African Americans raise 5 billion dollars for the African Renaissance there have been naysayers who insist I'm not speaking of our local development as well. Not only am I speaking of local businesses and institutes but of gaining that traction needed by huge foreign investment in Africa. But more importantly, I'm speaking of sovereignty in terms of powerful institutions that would help facilitate nation building. But like all things nothing exists without foundation. So without treasury there can be no institution and without institution no nation building.

    Treasury is key because we all know that it's our enemies plans and tactics to keep poor those of us who are in dissent to tyranny and slavery. Elijah Muhammad was often quoted saying that the hearts of his people was his bank. Sure we can't get a 5 billion dollar loan from Chase or the U.S Treasury to finance our nation. No reparation checks are coming out anytime soon. So how do we expect to select land, build on it, found institutions and keep them running?

    BUILDING ENDURING INSTITUTIONS FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

    - Pat Utomi


    Further readings,

    http://www.jalumi.com/articles/black nationalism by fagbamila fagunwa 2006.pdf

    I don't speak foolishly but time is not to be wasted so take heed. We have very little time, in terms of a few years before total economic collapse. How will you raise up a nation with no money? With worthless money? Stop debating what is a forgone conclusion, we need treasury in the billions and we need strong institutions, we also need sovereign land in which to determine our own destiny.

    I'm waiting on your responses.

    Positive ones I hope.

    Sango.
     
  2. Da Flash

    Da Flash going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Bro Sango, I'm not trying to come across negatively because at the root of the argument, I believe that self-independence/Black Nationalism is Our best chance at accomplishing the things that you mentioned. I do have a few questions though;

    1. How do We overcome the complacency that Our people have developed where it comes to business ownership and or integration? To build the type of society that you speak of it would have to be built on business/land ownership and doing most things with non-Blacks would lead to non-Blacks trying to get a piece of the pie.

    2. Where would the $5 billion go to? Land, defense, infrastructure, industry? Who would oversee the money and make the decisions on how it is utilized?

    3. When an economic collapse occur, won't it affect the financial stability of what is built??

    I think that if you or someone else could solve this issues, that it would be something that I'd be interested in.
     
  3. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    1. How do We overcome the complacency that Our people have developed where it comes to business ownership and or integration?

    I say with institution we can social engineer a change in your people by holding high discipline standards of morality and responsibility. You will be amazed how cooperative people can be and trainable, especially youth, but the open minded as well, when they receive free services that are like blessings. The Indians are big in the computer industry because the nation of India built computer institutions all over India and offered them free to all its people. This type of radical change takes treasury. But it requires institutions to social engineer and manage the new change of abundance and plot out long term strategy. Big institutes like Monsanto Fund and Rockefeller Foundation make huge money investments in certain areas of people's interest and then employ and train the people to run it.

    2. Where would the $5 billion go to? Land, defense, infrastructure, industry? Who would oversee the money and make the decisions on how it is utilized?

    The 5 billion will go into the treasury account of the head institution overseen by a board which will make proposals. Each proposal has to have 2/3 vote of the board in order for it's approval, which then must be signed by the Chairman and Co-chairwoman for approval. Then the proposals is approved by the official unnamed head who first sends it to an another board for final analyzes, such as feasibility studies. After the proposals is ratified or possibly denied because of it's costs, its sent back to the Chief Head for his signature making it pass or not, which later is sent back to the board for discard or a re-vote. There will be check and balances set up in the form of a constitution, executive council and council, administration, operations, a finance institution, , an education foundation, accounting and feasibility, and various modes of operations that shall be tiered in different levels of responsibility and command. The organization chart and it's application is design to teach us how to effectively plant social, economic and political development from within our own unified body. This unity doesn't require the masses of Blacks/Africans so that's why it will be successful. We will build a team based upon commitment first, then we will recruit necessary persons by skills, passion and solutions.

    We will demonstrate for the masses of our people the art and science of nation building. We will build a bridge between ourselves and a place within Africa. My place of choice is Benin Republic, Porto Novo. Benin is a small nation but has beautifully rich scenery and landscape. It is one of the most stable countries in Africa, Benin is also the only Africa nation that has a traditional African religion as it's official religion (Voduo) but lives peaceful with all other religions with side by side places of worship in many of its cities. Their national holiday is a celebration to the ancestors of all Africans. Benin is a peaceful nation and their president has visited the the U.S in the past asking African Americans to invest in his nation. We have enormous spending power but we don't put money into a public treasury for change. Which is the only way I believe change will ever come only except we take upon the responsibility ourselves as poor people to live the change we dream.

    And my choice for the place here in the states St. Helen Islands, SC. That ports in this area are some of the biggest in the U.S and is an ideal place for education facilities, shipping, fishing, farming, tourism, and other industries. Bringing goods back and forth between St. Helens S.C and Porto Novo and other ports of Africa, such as Lagos, Dakar, Johannesburg, Guinea, etc will give us international trade and commerce, boosts the lifestyles of both African Americans, African Diaspora and Beninese. We can also help out in Haiti, the island has resources and many poor people needing something to do.


    3. When an economic collapse occur, won't it affect the financial stability of what is built??

    This is why we should make ourselves independent in an urgent way because once economic collapse happens it doesn't have to affect us significantly to the point we go backwards. There were many millionaires made during the great depression. And a people well organized, well funded and have a commitment for survival and thriving aren't going to be caught off guard. To be concrete, our institution shall have farm land, lots of fields of different type of crops, we shall have chicken farms, live stocks, fishing ships and boats, we won't have to worry about food. Nor will we have to worry about trade if we train our youth in various skills to build our infrastructure. I think they say it took like a 100,000 workers to build the Giza Pyramids. That's proof you don't need millions of people to make an all time historical statement about the greatness of your civilization. But to the point, the ultimate thing we are starting is our social, economic and political freedom to choose our own destiny. And just because they world goes belly up it doesn't have to be our destiny too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  4. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Black Nationalism as the word implies?

    A nation within an already established nation would have to have a new treaty
    This has been attempted before on small and larger scales

    A few examples:

    • Asiatic Moors (Canaanite & Moorish Science Temples for Living - Chicago)
    • Black Muslim Nation of Islam (NOI - Detroit)
    • United Nation of Islam (UNOI - Kansas)
    • United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors (UNNM - NY/Atlanta)
    • African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem (Relocated to Dimona, Israel)
    • The National Afrikan Amerikan Family Reunion Association (NAAFRA - Texas)

    and more


    Now I will go back to the ultimate question each and every time one of these topics arises:

    Who Is "WE"?

    Until that becomes the primary focus, the imaginary "WE" exists in mind and in theory, and so does $5 billion. Not suggesting "WE" does not exist, but it has to be manifested into tangible form.

    I ask this because at times some desire to feel the urge to create new entities instead of looking into and investing or partnering with others of like energy.

    Attempts to merge happen all the time in corporate elements of society, yet when some attempt to reach out or create a bridge, it is seen as trying to "take something way or steal".

    So again, who and what is this "WE", because too many don't even desire to be around and share with their own unless they feel it will benefit them in some way.

    I am reaching out to you now brother, what are "WE" going to do about connecting and building a small pocket to begin with, or connect with other pockets and find a common connect or bridge?

    Sending you a conversation now, if you have it active (which is another odd thing I have noticed, many have their "Conversation" option unavailable-but it is what it is.)
     
  5. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Nevermind, just tried to send a message
     
  6. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    You should read the article I posted by Fagbamila Fagunwa. He identifies various groups who have promoted Black Nationalism. So does that answer your question about 'WE"? I like to be up front and blunt to people it gets through faster. It pisses some off I know because it's like I'm commanding them. But I prefer direct communication because it sparks energy and incites thought. We are going to need enough people to raise a treasury of 5 billion it will take a few hundred thousand dedicated African Americans to the cause of Black Nationalism, but any nation in the U.S is a dependent sovereignty and it's land is still designated U.S terrority, therefore still subject to U.S authority. But it will do us great for expansion into our homeland of Africa, our origin and ancestral territory where our people have absolute sovereign power.
     
  7. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Skimmed through it and saw those, so my question now is do we start to think of "Groups" are the cornerstone?

    Because in all honesty, not sure if any of the "Nations" I mention or the groups in the article accrued $5 billion, many over their complete existence from establishment to current.

    Regardless of the monetary angle, the most pertinent question still goes back to the "WE"

    And let me explain what I mean when I ask "who is WE"?

    The statement here uses a particular terminology that has to be felt and understood

    BUILDING ENDURING INSTITUTIONS FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

    "Enduring"

    There have been and will be off-shoots and "WE" here and there, but what is the "WE" that will create the enduring connection?

    What creates this "WE", what defines this "WE", what builds this "WE", what unites this "WE"?

    You know what I am talking about.... and send me a message brother, not going to have this conversation in public, been there done that.
     
  8. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    I've given you all that I'm going to give today. You should read the second article it's most important. It's hard to have a conversation who's ideas are embedded in material that one person has not read. Read. Then afterwards ask your questions. Send me a private message later.
     
  9. Dez K

    Dez K Active Member MEMBER

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    I do not normally agree with black nationalists, because they remind me of white nationalists in a different context. Personally, I dislike nationalism, period. Too extreme for me.

    Nevertheless, the only thing I agree with is the englightenment of Africans fixing African problems. I hate that a good chunk of countries in Africa depend on foreign aid.

    I'm actually doing my senior presentation (I'm a senior in high school) on a program that guides destitute people in developing countries to innovate their own solutions to their community's problems (for the purpose of my career, issues pertaining to architecture and infrastructure).

    So basically, instead of just one organization, fixing one problem in one community, we will have hundreds of people, fixing hundreds of problems, in hundreds of communities.

    More problems are solved in an innovative way by the people of the community!
     
  10. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    Greetings young man,

    I'm sorry to say you're only familiar with White Nationalism being born here in the United States and you're still a senior in High School. And White Nationalism has been extreme, extreme to Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, and every blackmale that's killed every 28 hours, to add to the thousands slain by law enforcement in this nation. Masses of Blackmen incarcerated that's extreme. Masses of Blackmen criminalize with felony records locked out of housing choices, inability to hold professional licenses, financial discrimination, yes all this is extreme. So how does that make Black Nationalism extreme? Since Benin is a totally different kind of Nationalism, are blackmen like Trayvon killed by policemen for no reason?

    Benin is a stable and peaceful African nation. There are many ethnic tribes of Africans there, various different faiths amongst them, but there is no war. So Benin is my example of Black Nationalism. Black Americans are ruled over they don't have Black Nationalism. You can't have a nation free without sovereignty that is the right to exercise law and institute social change wielding treasury that creates industry.

    How will people innovate solutions in developing countries without treasury? There's poor communities in the U.S who have not accomplished this task. I'm afraid your ideas will fail. No solutions will work if there is no treasury to set up the materialized institution that would social engineer change. Oh btw, an institution can contain thousands of people across the world, working in various different organized ways, at different levels of a long term strategy, some working in Executive positions, some in administration, some in operations, some in technical support, some in research and development, some in media,also some institutions are magnitudes of subsidiary institutes within it's umbrella, so you would be wise to study what an institution is and that would help in your project. I wish you success because that would mean all our success if any of us succeeds.

    Peace.







     
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