Haiti : Haitians Unhappy with Clinton and Bush in their nation

blackeyes

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
May 14, 2003
1,744
448
South,Ga
With all due respect ... the most respect one can muster ... i ask ... can beggars be choosey?

If my children and I, and all of our neighbors, are starving, dying, hungry, buried under rocks, not able to help our selves ... and your Family (USA) sent some help, set up specifically by the Family Leader (President Obama) ... but the Brothers sent to facilitate that help (Clinton Bush), had done us wrong before ... and we don't necessarily like them ... so i'm wondering ... does that put me in a position to insist that some different Brothers come to feed and save us, not these ... or ... is it okay if i ... do all I can to disrespect the show of help from the Leader of the Family (Obama) ... by disrespecting those he sent ... possibly hindering not only myself, my children, but also my neighbors ... from receiving help we can't provide to our selves.

That's krazee to me.

If your help offended us so ... then graciously say no to it all ... but to pick apart the help ... "I want this, but I don't want that" ... well, i just wasn't raised like that.

President Obama asked them to do this, and they agreed. Instead of seeing it as belittling to yourself, consider it belittling to Bush. This is his first time ever visiting the country, so the article says. There are usually several ways one can look at a thing, and I encourage us all, to look at them in ways that empower us / you.

Take the help, feed your people, shelter them, clothe them ... drink from this cup, for it is yours ... live to see another day ... then fix it so it never happens again.

We can't save our selves ... but we wanna be able to tell others how to save us?

I don't get it.

:heart:

Destee
I know that's right. I heard they(Bush & Clinton) raised like 37million dollars for Haiti. I'd shut up, take the money and save the protest for my own current corrupt leaders.
 

Mad Skillz

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MEMBER
Oct 28, 2004
604
251
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With all due respect ... the most respect one can muster ... i ask ... can beggars be choosey?

If my children and I, and all of our neighbors, are starving, dying, hungry, buried under rocks, not able to help our selves ... and your Family (USA) sent some help, set up specifically by the Family Leader (President Obama) ... but the Brothers sent to facilitate that help (Clinton Bush), had done us wrong before ... and we don't necessarily like them ... so i'm wondering ... does that put me in a position to insist that some different Brothers come to feed and save us, not these ... or ... is it okay if i ... do all I can to disrespect the show of help from the Leader of the Family (Obama) ... by disrespecting those he sent ... possibly hindering not only myself, my children, but also my neighbors ... from receiving help we can't provide to our selves.

That's krazee to me.

If your help offended us so ... then graciously say no to it all ... but to pick apart the help ... "I want this, but I don't want that" ... well, i just wasn't raised like that.

President Obama asked them to do this, and they agreed. Instead of seeing it as belittling to yourself, consider it belittling to Bush. This is his first time ever visiting the country, so the article says. There are usually several ways one can look at a thing, and I encourage us all, to look at them in ways that empower us / you.

Take the help, feed your people, shelter them, clothe them ... drink from this cup, for it is yours ... live to see another day ... then fix it so it never happens again.

We can't save our selves ... but we wanna be able to tell others how to save us?

I don't get it.

:heart:

Destee

I disagree, Destee. In this particular case beggars can be choosy. Please take into consideration all things Haiti has endured for the past two hundred years. Haiti has been burdened with unfair economic policies from the West (particularly by the U.S.) and astronomical debt for liberating themselves from France two hundred years ago. The U.S. military took down president Aristide, deported him to Central Africa, and took over Haiti with hired thugs and death squads, then used the UN and the NGO squads to deflect charges of terror, racism and imperialism. That's what Amerikkka did, by cloaking themselves in altruism and "foreign aid." The U.S. has intervened and staged coups in every one of Haiti's democratic elections. I am certain the Haitian people are astute this dismal relationship with Amerikkka. If the Haitian people can take advantage of the moment and receive "help" from the U.S. while demonstrating their disgust for harmful U.S. economic policies against their nation, more power to them. What other outlet do the Haitian people have at the moment?

Reality is not simple, Destee. Reality is more like investors want your kidneys at a price where you will not be able to feed your kids as the basis for getting a good profit. And the fact that you have no other means of feeding your kids simply shows that you are in no real position to do anything else but to accept what they give you. Reality is you should put yourself in a position of independence by being able to acquire the things you need without depending on the U.S. and their self interests for your survival.
 

King Tubbs

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Apr 17, 2005
336
270
With all due respect ... the most respect one can muster ... i ask ... can beggars be choosey?

If my children and I, and all of our neighbors, are starving, dying, hungry, buried under rocks, not able to help our selves ... and your Family (USA) sent some help, set up specifically by the Family Leader (President Obama) ... but the Brothers sent to facilitate that help (Clinton Bush), had done us wrong before ... and we don't necessarily like them ... so i'm wondering ... does that put me in a position to insist that some different Brothers come to feed and save us, not these ... or ... is it okay if i ... do all I can to disrespect the show of help from the Leader of the Family (Obama) ... by disrespecting those he sent ... possibly hindering not only myself, my children, but also my neighbors ... from receiving help we can't provide to our selves.

That's krazee to me.

If your help offended us so ... then graciously say no to it all ... but to pick apart the help ... "I want this, but I don't want that" ... well, i just wasn't raised like that.

President Obama asked them to do this, and they agreed. Instead of seeing it as belittling to yourself, consider it belittling to Bush. This is his first time ever visiting the country, so the article says. There are usually several ways one can look at a thing, and I encourage us all, to look at them in ways that empower us / you.

Take the help, feed your people, shelter them, clothe them ... drink from this cup, for it is yours ... live to see another day ... then fix it so it never happens again.

We can't save our selves ... but we wanna be able to tell others how to save us?

I don't get it.

:heart:

Destee
Hi Destee,

Mad Skillz has pretty much said what I planned to say so I'll just add to rather than repeat what has been said. In 1804 the US imposed a blockade (similar to the current Cuban one) on Haiti designed to starve and alienate it as it didnt want its own slaves to get any ideas. The US supported France unfair and unjust claims for reparations which took Haiti over 100 years to repay and broke and bankrupt the country long before the evil lying thieving Duvaliers came on the scene.

They also "loaned" Haiti money which the Haitians ended up paying back many times over due to excessive interest rates.

The US invaded Haiti in 1915 to 1934 (to "help restore order") killed thousands who resisted, and took over all of there financial institutions and rewrote their constitution. Whereas only those born in Haiti could own land the Americans rewrote it so that only those NOT born in Haiti could own land!! They then milked Haiti for all the timber and agriculture they could.

They installed puppet uncle tom yes men who were happy to hand over all power and control to USA.

They supported the DuValiers who stole looted starved and bankrupted whatever little the country had, both Papa and Baby Doc made sure France and USA got their cut so USA was happy no matter what these evil butchers did.

When Aristide came to power and was making a compelling argument to the UN that France should at least pay back some of the money taken as reparations because it was one of the richest countries in the world and Haiti one of the poorest, he was building a museum as monument to Haitian freedom fighters Dessalines and Boukman, three guesses which country decided he was getting too uppity and assisted his overthrow and expulsion?

In short maybe the Haitians are thinking maybe we are poor and destitute but in the last 100 years when has the US ever "helped" us and we not ended up the poverty stricken loser anyway? All the help we get from the US always ends up with uncle tom sellout thugs running our country a great deal for the US a lousy one for us! Maybe we need to struggle this one out by ourselves this time since help from Uncle Sam always ends in tears, our tears!!!

I understand your analogy that if your children and neighbors were starving and dying you would take the help......but suppose the one offering the help was the same one that was largely responsible for your children and neighbors starving and dying in first place?
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,674
2,166
I am really understanding your focus now, you are not saying the hell with Malcolm and Martin, you are saying ,
instead be creative and work towards new strategies and a new and fresh movement just like they back then designed a new one rather then dwelling on the past.
:toast:
 

Destee

destee.com
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Jan 22, 2001
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I disagree, Destee. In this particular case beggars can be choosy. Please take into consideration all things Haiti has endured for the past two hundred years. Haiti has been burdened with unfair economic policies from the West (particularly by the U.S.) and astronomical debt for liberating themselves from France two hundred years ago. The U.S. military took down president Aristide, deported him to Central Africa, and took over Haiti with hired thugs and death squads, then used the UN and the NGO squads to deflect charges of terror, racism and imperialism. That's what Amerikkka did, by cloaking themselves in altruism and "foreign aid." The U.S. has intervened and staged coups in every one of Haiti's democratic elections. I am certain the Haitian people are astute this dismal relationship with Amerikkka. If the Haitian people can take advantage of the moment and receive "help" from the U.S. while demonstrating their disgust for harmful U.S. economic policies against their nation, more power to them. What other outlet do the Haitian people have at the moment?

Reality is not simple, Destee. Reality is more like investors want your kidneys at a price where you will not be able to feed your kids as the basis for getting a good profit. And the fact that you have no other means of feeding your kids simply shows that you are in no real position to do anything else but to accept what they give you. Reality is you should put yourself in a position of independence by being able to acquire the things you need without depending on the U.S. and their self interests for your survival.

Hi Destee,

Mad Skillz has pretty much said what I planned to say so I'll just add to rather than repeat what has been said. In 1804 the US imposed a blockade (similar to the current Cuban one) on Haiti designed to starve and alienate it as it didnt want its own slaves to get any ideas. The US supported France unfair and unjust claims for reparations which took Haiti over 100 years to repay and broke and bankrupt the country long before the evil lying thieving Duvaliers came on the scene.

They also "loaned" Haiti money which the Haitians ended up paying back many times over due to excessive interest rates.

The US invaded Haiti in 1915 to 1934 (to "help restore order") killed thousands who resisted, and took over all of there financial institutions and rewrote their constitution. Whereas only those born in Haiti could own land the Americans rewrote it so that only those NOT born in Haiti could own land!! They then milked Haiti for all the timber and agriculture they could.

They installed puppet uncle tom yes men who were happy to hand over all power and control to USA.

They supported the DuValiers who stole looted starved and bankrupted whatever little the country had, both Papa and Baby Doc made sure France and USA got their cut so USA was happy no matter what these evil butchers did.

When Aristide came to power and was making a compelling argument to the UN that France should at least pay back some of the money taken as reparations because it was one of the richest countries in the world and Haiti one of the poorest, he was building a museum as monument to Haitian freedom fighters Dessalines and Boukman, three guesses which country decided he was getting too uppity and assisted his overthrow and expulsion?

In short maybe the Haitians are thinking maybe we are poor and destitute but in the last 100 years when has the US ever "helped" us and we not ended up the poverty stricken loser anyway? All the help we get from the US always ends up with uncle tom sellout thugs running our country a great deal for the US a lousy one for us! Maybe we need to struggle this one out by ourselves this time since help from Uncle Sam always ends in tears, our tears!!!

I understand your analogy that if your children and neighbors were starving and dying you would take the help......but suppose the one offering the help was the same one that was largely responsible for your children and neighbors starving and dying in first place?

Oh My Gosh ... i think i'm having an intellectual orgasm ... :love:

I Love You Both So ... and to be sharing with you like this, at the same time ... well ... is this what they call a 3-some? :blush:

Okay Destee ... focus ... :look:


::
::


My Dear Darling Brothers Mad Skillz and King Tubbs,

I've grown weary of hearing about all the many times they've abused us, while we continue to eat from their hand, still not able to feed ourselves.

I liken us collectively, to an abused woman, that continually returns to the man that beats her ... after so many times of this, you can't blame the abuser alone.

You all have highlighted the many times that we have been subject to these people, able to easily show how they have abused, beat, tricked, deceived, bamboozled, killed us ... over and over, yet here we are again ... eating from their hand ... while complaining about it all between slurps.

Who are these people, that can overwhelm us, every single time, over and over again? Are their men more than our men? Are their women more than our women? Were they provided an extra limb, an extra mind, or anything from God, that would explain our continually remaining under their feet? Our Own Beloved Ancestor Marcus Garvey said something similar, which is where I got it from.

This reminds me of Katrina, and how we were all up in arms regarding the way the government responded ... but we are now, no more able to save our people from a storm, or small catastrophe, anywhere on the planet, than we were with Katrina. This catastrophe proves that, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one, will do the same. There is absolutely no evidence to prove otherwise. Is this the best we have to offer, the telling of these numerous defeats, as we stand yet again in their food lines?! When will we talk of our victory, of being able to feed and save our own people, without our abuser's help?!

If we don't like the representatives / help sent by the USA, then we should be able to send that of our own choosing, but we are not qualified.

Yes, they have done us wrong, and will let us talk about it, as they continue to do us wrong.

An abused woman will talk of her beatings, and even show you the scars, as she allows him to continue to "f" her.

Until she gets tired of being abused, it will never stop, and likewise, until we get tired, it will not stop.

Until then ... like her, we can reminisce over the many beatings, that are added to daily ... as we continue to eat from their hands.

Thank You for sharing with me, and I hope you don't mind that I combined my response to yall ... always a pleasure ... :love:

I Love You Both! :grouphug:

:heart:

Destee


::
::


ps ... i think this quote is applicable from Our Beloved Ancestor Marcus Garvey, March I8, I923 ... almost 100 years ago :

::
::

I am going back now to the bread-and-butter question. Do you know that every Negro in Liberty Hall tonight can die out by the end of this month without anybody poisoning you, without anybody putting a rope around your neck, without anybody shooting you or without anybody doing any bodily harm to you? Do you know? By starving. There is not a man in this building tonight who, if denied food for thirty days, would be able to resist death by starvation. What do I mean by that? I mean this: that we are so careless of ourselves, so careless of our future, that tonight 15,000,000 of us in America are dependent upon the white man for our daily existence, our daily sustenance and our daily bread. If the white man should say in another twenty-four hours that "I will not employ any more Negroes in my industry, on my farms or in my business," what would happen? Fifteen million Negroes would be jobless in the United States of America. And if you were kept jobless for a day or a week and rendered unable to go to the grocer to buy your provisions or to pay your rent to your landlord on the 1st or the 15th of the month and you were kept jobless for two weeks, everyone of us would have to leave our homes in Harlem and go out into the streets, unable to go to the grocer, and every one of us would be dying on the streets of New York, and I feel sure the white man would not have any objection to supplying the coffins to bury us by the hundreds, because it will be in keeping with his plan to get rid of us. Such a condition of unemployment would rid this country of 15,000,000 people just as the North American Indian was exterminated. And that was the white man's plan to get rid of the Negro problem in America up to 1913. But God Almighty sent the war and created a breach. We are still in that breach and ff the 15,000,000 Negroes of America remain without action for another five or ten years and allow this country to return to normal to carry out their pre-war program, it is only a question of fifty or 100 years more when you and I will be weeded out from this Western civilization.

http://www.marcusgarvey.com/wmprint.php?ArtID=558

::
::
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,674
2,166
Yes..

I come to you as an advisor and to assist whatever you (among others) feel and think will advance the best interests of us--here/there/everywhere...

But...

I consider those who speak up/out/etc. the advance troops of a new movement--not those who merely did and do consider us--or our various relations--somebody to be pitted--and/or hapless victims--etc.

Simply put?

While some did or do consider us a bunch of constant whiners ad naseum:

Also I strive and try to advance the idea etc. of us returning to to the warriors traditions...

:SuN044:
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,674
2,166
:thinking:

Oh My Gosh ... i think i'm having an intellectual orgasm ... :love:

I Love You Both So ... and to be sharing with you like this, at the same time ... well ... is this what they call a 3-some? :blush:

Chuck:

First of all?

Whenever and whereever, do remember how you began your comments

:em16:

Okay Destee ... focus ... :look:

My Dear Darling Brothers Mad Skillz and King Tubbs,

I've grown weary of hearing about all the many times they've abused us, while we continue to eat from their hand, still not able to feed ourselves.

I liken us collectively, to an abused woman, that continually returns to the man that beats her ... after so many times of this, you can't blame the abuser alone.

You all have highlighted the many times that we have been subject to these people, able to easily show how they have abused, beat, tricked, deceived, bamboozled, killed us ... over and over, yet here we are again ... eating from their hand ... while complaining about it all between slurps.

Who are these people, that can overwhelm us, every single time, over and over again? Are their men more than our men? Are their women more than our women? Were they provided an extra limb, an extra mind, or anything from God, that would explain our continually remaining under their feet? Our Own Beloved Ancestor Marcus Garvey said something similar, which is where I got it from.

This reminds me of Katrina, and how we were all up in arms regarding the way the government responded ... but we are now, no more able to save our people from a storm, or small catastrophe, anywhere on the planet, than we were with Katrina. This catastrophe proves that, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one, will do the same. There is absolutely no evidence to prove otherwise. Is this the best we have to offer, the telling of these numerous defeats, as we stand yet again in their food lines?! When will we talk of our victory, of being able to feed and save our own people, without our abuser's help?!

If we don't like the representatives / help sent by the USA, then we should be able to send that of our own choosing, but we are not qualified.

Yes, they have done us wrong, and will let us talk about it, as they continue to do us wrong.

An abused woman will talk of her beatings, and even show you the scars, as she allows him to continue to "f" her.

Until she gets tired of being abused, it will never stop, and likewise, until we get tired, it will not stop.

Until then ... like her, we can reminisce over the many beatings, that are added to daily ... as we continue to eat from their hands.

Thank You for sharing with me, and I hope you don't mind that I combined my response to yall ... always a pleasure ... :love:

I Love You Both! :grouphug:

:heart:

Chuck:

Whenever I use my life experiences etc., i. e., as an example of what I'm striving and trying to move above and beyond, I also kinda sorta realize and recognize there will be reactions and responses, i. e., based on whether those other folks have had the same ones or not at all...

So do reconsider what you said and wrote from my take as well...

Good luck!

Best wishes...

Take care...

Peace...

:10200:


::
::


ps ... i think this quote is applicable from Our Beloved Ancestor Marcus Garvey, March I8, I923 ... almost 100 years ago :

::
::

I am going back now to the bread-and-butter question. Do you know that every Negro in Liberty Hall tonight can die out by the end of this month without anybody poisoning you, without anybody putting a rope around your neck, without anybody shooting you or without anybody doing any bodily harm to you? Do you know? By starving. There is not a man in this building tonight who, if denied food for thirty days, would be able to resist death by starvation. What do I mean by that? I mean this: that we are so careless of ourselves, so careless of our future, that tonight 15,000,000 of us in America are dependent upon the white man for our daily existence, our daily sustenance and our daily bread. If the white man should say in another twenty-four hours that "I will not employ any more Negroes in my industry, on my farms or in my business," what would happen? Fifteen million Negroes would be jobless in the United States of America. And if you were kept jobless for a day or a week and rendered unable to go to the grocer to buy your provisions or to pay your rent to your landlord on the 1st or the 15th of the month and you were kept jobless for two weeks, everyone of us would have to leave our homes in Harlem and go out into the streets, unable to go to the grocer, and every one of us would be dying on the streets of New York, and I feel sure the white man would not have any objection to supplying the coffins to bury us by the hundreds, because it will be in keeping with his plan to get rid of us. Such a condition of unemployment would rid this country of 15,000,000 people just as the North American Indian was exterminated. And that was the white man's plan to get rid of the Negro problem in America up to 1913. But God Almighty sent the war and created a breach. We are still in that breach and ff the 15,000,000 Negroes of America remain without action for another five or ten years and allow this country to return to normal to carry out their pre-war program, it is only a question of fifty or 100 years more when you and I will be weeded out from this Western civilization.

http://www.marcusgarvey.com/wmprint.php?ArtID=558

::
::
 

Destee

destee.com
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Jan 22, 2001
35,801
9,734
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destee.com
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Brothers ... how yall gonna do me like this ... get me all excited think'n i'm finna ... well ... enjoy a great discussion ... and yall leave me hang'n ... :pc:

What happeneded? Where yall at? No comments at all?

I know yall aint finna leave a Sister hang'n like this ... :injured: ... iz yall ... :love:

:heart:

Destee
 

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