Black People : Gil Noble; 1960s, interview with: a mad man or wise man?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Ankhur, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    this was posted not as a personal opinion or ideology, but as food for thought pro or con
     
  2. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "A mad man or wise man?"

    ...Or a mad wise man who is blaming and pointing the finger
    at everyone/thing but us?:?:
     
  3. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    please listen to what he is really saying and you can see that even back then he was blaming our lack of focus or clarity regarding our understanding or penetration of the concepts of political ideology as a manifestation of voting for ones choices , ones own choices, decided by regular people not corporations andobviously,
    not just the lesser of 2 evils.

    His message clearly speaks to us, and our perceptions conceptions and misconceptions and how they effect our individual attitudes towards collective input regarding devlopment or lack of development of the community.
     
  4. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    First, let me began by saying,
    I was being sarcastic. Sometimes
    my use of sarcasm fails to get my
    point across to others.
    Oh well, feast or famine is how I roll
    with it.

    I was listening.

    I heard him say things like, "the vote has been used as a tool of oppression against"....(who?).... "black people".
    He goes on to quote, [albert] camus, by saying "what better way to enslave a man, then to give him
    a vote and call him free?
    "

    Brown then states something similar to what I've said regarding the vote in another thread:

    "It does not profit black people or poor people anything to have the vote and not be able to select
    the candidates they wanna choose"....."To really believe that we can put someone in office and that
    these people be responsive to our needs is naive, politically naive, because even if one of the black
    candidates ran for office were to take the office as president, then black people must be prepared to
    fight against that person....because the system mandates the action of that person
    ".

    What you said in the above seems to be an observation, not blaming.
    There is a difference. And yes, brown's message indeed speaks
    to us, not at us. There again, is a difference.

    "...Now in terms of black people-occupied positions, amerikkka has created in cleveland, washington dc and gary indiana
    a type of neocolonialism. In other words, the man has set up a puppet regime. These black people are responsive to the
    needs and the whims of the democratic party and not of the masses of black people.
    "

    Noble queries with regard to black folk in prominent positions amounting to tokenism.
    Brown's calls for an examination in the sense of progress and as to whether black
    people had made progress in this country, and h. rap's contention:

    "Black people have not made progress in this country. Amerikkka
    has given blacks some concessions out of political necessity. Their
    political necessity. They gave thurgood marshall a position on the
    supreme court to appease black people. In other words, we didn't
    put thurgood marshall there. They can take thurgood whenever
    they get ready. We put adam [clayton powell] in office, they
    took him out... That has to be viewed in the light of concessions.
    The very fact that a man could concede a position to you, tells
    you that you do not have a position of power where you can
    demand, or that you can mandate something
    ".

    Brown then ends by saying that black folks have to be about
    revolutionary change, because the system isn't gonna change
    itself. In his opinion, the system is incapable of changing
    itself.

    If from all that, we are to deduce that brown is calling us out for
    allowing black folks to come before us in some leadership
    capacity who are working more so in the interest of yt and not
    black folks as "pointing the finger at us", then okay.

    But this is where focus is lost....some folks will overlook all
    that
    only to see the "...yt" and from that piece cry out that we are
    entirely blaming everything on yt. All the emphasis on our detrimental
    level of naivete with respect to politics -being called to task,
    and rightfully so, vanishes whenever the term 'yt' or the connotation of, pops up.

    I am starting to see the term "blame" used as a thinly veiled
    convenient means of censorship. Because it takes a considerable
    amount of effort to get in there and grapple with the issues concerning
    black folks. Not saying that you, Ankur, don't make that effort...I'm speaking in general.

    Bytheway. What is the difference between blaming
    us and blaming "our lack of focus and clarity"?:10500:
     
  5. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    stuff on other post don't get me hung up, but please understand;
    "....."To really believe that we can put someone in office and that
    these people be responsive to our needs is naive

    that was in reference to a national election of a plutocracy or oligarchy,
    however he was not reffreing to the centralizedBlack ommunites were we could select our own

    remember how he said Powell was demonized?

    that was a call for us to form our own media, and to be honest a strong flow of progrssive and pro Black journals started to come about like Black News, Muntu and others


    , politically naive, because even if one of the black
    candidates ran for office were to take the office as president, then black people must be prepared to
    fight against that person....because the system mandates the action of that person".

     
  6. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I am starting to see the term "blame" used as a thinly veiled
    a convenient means of censorship.


    I responded away from that to keep it positive in my response, but since it is brought up again, please do understand that

    that particular time was the time for vanguard brothers and sisters who were children and toddlers during the real Jim Crow, a hell we cannot imagine or concieve, had the duty

    [U]back then

    to blame the white man clearly and openly, so that the folks at the time would not become complacent with the new defacto integration[/U]



    but let's be clear, if an elder contractor tells a person that there is a hole in a roof

    40 years ago
    Is it logical or productive to still talk about the hole 40 years later, or just repair it?

    Who wants to see their children get sick whie trying to eat breakfast, while holding umbrellas in the kitechen to keep from getting wet when it rains?
     
  7. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yet it still speaks to our political naivete, does
    it not?

    And also, what he says, is what we are still dealing with today.
    Because we are still on first base having yet to get on second.
    Or second to third. Anywhere but home.

    Yet again, when the mention of "yt" or the connotation of pops
    up, that is what some folks only hone in on, dismissing the
    whole case as "blaming" anything/body but us.

    If we examine closely what brown is saying, we can see he has addressed
    both parties of the issue with regard to our plight, which is in stark contrast
    of the 'cosby' method of approach. Which is why only a few are listening to
    his, cosby's, behind.
     
  8. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    bump
     
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