Black People : Genocide or just Racism...? You decide...

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Sun Ship, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Aug 31, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I think these original drafts are important because there were changes made that probably enhanced the exploitation of people through hegemony and imperialism and to make sure that the ruling white supremacist and western oligarchies of the world would never be held accountable for past and present acts of genocidal rule.

    I have highlighted some points that most Black and Brown don't think about when they hear or define the word genocide.

    The final text of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide was adopted on December 9, 1948 by the 3rd U.N. General Assembly, meeting in Paris. Two earlier drafts (the Secretariat Draft and the Ad Hoc Committee Draft) were written in May 1947 and April 1948 . These drafts incorporated many important and controversial features which were not included in the final text. Among these features were: inclusion of political and linguistic groups in the list of protected groups, definitions of cultural genocide, provisions for suppression of preparations for genocide, provisions universal jurisdiction and for an international criminal tribunal.

    Two earlier drafts (the Secretariat Draft and the Ad Hoc Committee Draft) were written in May 1947 and April 1948:

    Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
    - the Secretariat and Ad Hoc Committee Drafts

    Secretariat Draft
    First Draft of the Genocide Convention,
    Prepared by the UN Secretariat, [May] 1947 [UN Doc. E/447]

    Preamble: The High Contracting Parties proclaim that Genocide, which is the intentional destruction of a group of human beings, defies universal conscience, inflicts irreparable loss on humanity by depriving it of the cultural and other contributions of the group so destroyed, and is in contradiction with the spirit and aims of the United Nations.

    1. They appeal to the feelings of solidarity of all members of the international community and call upon them to oppose this odious crime.
    2. They proclaim that the acts of genocide defined by the present Convention are crimes against the Law of Nations, and that the fundamental exigencies of civilization, international order and peace require their prevention and punishment.
    3. They pledge themselves to prevent and to repress such acts wherever they may occur.

    Article I: Definitions

    I. [Protected groups] The purpose of this Convention is to prevent destruction of racial, national, linguistic, religious or political groups human beings.

    II. [Acts qualified as Genocide] In this Convention, the word 'genocide' means a criminal act directed against any one of the aforesaid groups of human beings, with the purpose of destroying it in whole or in part or of preventing its preservation or development.

    Such acts consist of:

    1. [Physical genocide] Causing the death of members of a group or injuring their health or physical integrity by:

    (a) group massacres or individual executions; or
    (b) subjection to conditions of life which, by lack of proper housing, clothing, food, hygiene and medical care, or excessive work or physical exertion are likely to result in the debilitation or death of the individuals; or
    (c) mutilations and biological experiments imposed for other than curative purposes; or
    (d) deprivation of all means of livelihood, by confiscation of property, looting, curtailment of work, denial of housing and of supplies otherwise available to the other inhabitants of the territory concerned.

    2. [Biological genocide] Restricting births by:

    (a) sterilization and/or compulsory abortion; or
    (b) segregation of the sexes; or
    (c) obstacles to marriage.

    3. [Cultural genocide] Destroying the specific characteristics of the group by:

    (a) forcible transfer of children to another human group; or
    (b) forced and systematic exile of individuals representing the culture of a group; or
    (c) prohibition of the use of the national language even in private intercourse; or
    (d) systematic destruction of books printed in the national language or of religious works or prohibition of new publications; or
    (e) systematic destruction of historical or religious monuments or their diversion to alien uses, destruction or dispersion of documents and objects of historical, artistic, or religious value and of objects used in religious worship.

    Article II: [Punishable offences]

    I. The following are likewise deemed to be crimes of genocide:

    1. Any attempt to commit genocide;
    2. the following preparatory acts:

    (a) studies and research for the purpose of developing the technique of genocide;
    (b) setting up of installations, manufacturing, obtaining, possessing or supplying of articles or substances with the knowledge that they are intended for genocide;
    (c) issuing instructions or orders, and distributing tasks with a view to committing genocide.

    II. The following shall likewise be punishable:

    1. wilful participation in acts of genocide of whatever description;
    2. direct public incitement to any act of genocide whether the incitement be successful or not;
    3. conspiracy to commit acts of genocide.

    Article III: [Punishment of a Particular Offence] All forms of public propaganda tending by their systematic and hateful character to promote genocide, or tending to make it appear as a necessary, legitimate or excusable act shall be punished.

    Article IV: [Persons Liable] Those committing genocide shall be punished, be they rulers, public officials or private individuals.

    Article V: [Command of the Law and Superior Orders] Command of the law or superior orders shall not justify genocide.

    Article VI: [Provisions Concerning Genocide in Municipal Criminal Law] The High Contracting Parties shall make provision in their municipal law for acts of genocide as defined by Articles I, II, and III, above, and for their effective punishment.

    Article VII: [Universal Enforcement of Municipal Criminal Law] The High Contracting Parties pledge themselves to punish any offender under this Convention within any territory under their jurisdiction, irrespective of the nationality of the offender or of the place where the offence has been committed.

    Article VIII [Extradition]
    The High Contracting Parties declare that genocide shall not be considered as a political crime and therefore shall be grounds for extradition.

    Article IX: [Trial of Genocide by an International Court]
    The High Contracting Parties pledge themselves to commit all persons guilty of genocide under this Convention for trial to an international court in the following cases:

    1. When they are unwilling to try such offenders themselves under Article VII or to grant their extradition under Article VIII.
    2. If the acts of genocide have been committed by individuals acting as organs of the State or with the support or toleration of the State.

    Article X: [International Court Competent to Try Genocide] Two drafts are submitted for this section:

    1st draft: The court of criminal jurisdiction under Article IX shall be the International Court having jurisdiction in all matters connected with international crimes.
    2nd draft: An international court shall be set up to try crimes of genocide (vide Annexes).

    Article XI: [Disbanding of Groups or Organizations Having Participated in Genocide] The High Contracting Parties pledge themselves to disband any group or organization which has participated in any act of genocide mentioned in Articles I, II, and III, above.

    Article XII: [Action by the United Nations to Prevent or to Stop Genocide] Irrespective of any provision in the foregoing articles, should the crimes as defined in this Convention be committed in any part of the world, or should there be serious reasons for suspecting that such crimes have been committed, the High Contracting Parties may call upon the competent organs of the United Nation to take measures for the suppression or prevention of such crimes.
    In such case the said Parties shall do everything in their power to give full effect to the intervention of the United Nations.

    Article XIII: [Reparations to Victims of Genocide] When genocide is committed in a country by the government in power or by sections of the population, and if the government fails to resist it successfully, the State shall grant to the survivors of the human group that is a victim of genocide redress of a nature and in an amount to be determined by the United Nations.

    Article XIV: [Settlement of Disputes on Interpretation or Application of the Convention] Disputes relating to the interpretation or application of this Convention shall be submitted to the International Court of Justice.

    [Omitted: final clauses, Articles IX to XXIV]

    Ad Hoc Committee Draft

    Second Draft Genocide Convention
    Prepared by the Ad Hoc Committee of the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC),
    meeting between April 5, 1948 and May 10, 1948 [UN Doc. E/AC.25/SR.1 to 28 ]

    The High Contracting Parties

    Declaring that genocide is a grave crime against mankind which is contrary to the spirit and aims of the United Nations and which the civilized world condemns;

    Having been profoundly shocked by many recent instances of genocide;

    Having taken note of the fact that the International Military Tribunal at Nürnberg in its judgment of 30 September-1 October 1946 has punished under a different legal description certain persons who have committed acts similar to those which the present Convention aims at punishing; and

    Being convinced that the prevention and punishment of genocide requires international co-operation,

    Hereby agree to prevent and punish the crime as hereinafter provided:

    [Substantive articles]

    Article I: [Genocide a crime under international law]
    Genocide is a crime under international law whether committed in time of peace or in time of war.

    Article II: ['Physical and biological' genocide]
    In this Convention genocide means any of the following deliberate acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, racial, religious or political group, on grounds of the national or racial origin, religious belief, or political opinion of its members:

    1. Killing members of the group;
    2. Impairing the physical integrity of members of the group;
    3. Inflicting on members of the group measures or conditions of life aimed at causing their deaths;
    4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.

    Article III ['Cultural' genocide]

    In this Convention genocide also means any deliberate act committed with the intent to destroy the language, religion, or culture of a national, racial or religious group on grounds of the national or racial origin or the religious belief of its members such as:

    1. Prohibiting the use of the language of the group in daily intercourse or in schools, or the printing and circulation of publications in the language of the group;
    2. Destroying or preventing the use of libraries, museums, schools, historical monuments, places of worship or other cultural institutions and objects of the group.

    Article IV: [Punishable acts]
    The following acts shall be punishable:

    (a) Genocide as defined in Articles II and III;
    (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
    (c) Direct incitement in public or in private to commit genocide whether such incitement be successful or not;
    (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
    (e) Complicity in any of the acts enumerated in this article.

    Article V: [Persons liable]
    Those committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article IV shall be punished whether they are heads of State, public officials or private individuals.

    Article VI: [Domestic legislation]
    The High Contracting Parties undertake to enact the necessary legislation in accordance with their constitutional procedures to give effect to the provisions of this Convention.

    Article VII [Jurisdiction]
    Persons charged with genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article IV shall be tried by a competent tribunal of the State in the territory of which the act was committed or by a competent international tribunal.

    Article VIII: [Action of the United Nations]

    1. A party to this Convention may call upon any competent organ of the United Nations to take such action as may be appropriate under the Charter for the prevention and suppression of genocide.
    2. A party to this Convention may bring to the attention of any competent organ of the United Nations any case of violation of this Convention.

    Article IX: [Extradition]

    1. Genocide and the other acts enumerated in Article IV shall not be considered as political crimes and therefore shall be grounds for extradition.
    2. Each party to this Convention pledges itself to grant extradition in such cases in accordance with its laws and treaties in force.

    Article X: [Settlement of disputes by the International Court of Justice]
    Disputes between the High Contracting Parties relating to the interpretation or application of this Convention shall be submitted to the International Court of justice provided that no dispute shall be submitted to the International Court of justice involving an issue which has been referred to and is pending before or has been passed upon by a competent international criminal tribunal.

    [Omitted: final clauses, Articles X to IX]

    Texts: Nehemiah Robinson, The Genocide Convention: A Commentary (Instutute of Jewish Affairs, 1960), Appendices II and IV; or William A. Schabas, , Genocide in International Law: The Crime of Crimes (Cambridge, UK: Cambridge Univeristy Press, 2000), p. 553-564.



    Brother Sun Ship
  2. Virtual_GOD

    Virtual_GOD Member MEMBER

    Sep 21, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Racism is White Supremacy...cause and effect. No non-white person can practice racism (white supremacy). Non-white will say that other non-white people are "racist" against each other. The white people who practice racism (white supremacy) often use non-white people against each other to maintain, expand, and refine the current supreme global SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism).

    Any non-white person that critiques another non-white person or fights another non-white person unjustly or kills another non-white person unjustly is helping the white supremacists (racists). Any behavior by a non-white person that does not help to ensure that no person is mistreated and also helps to ensure that the people who need help the most get the most help, using thought, speech, and/or action...that non-white person is helping to maintain the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism). In some form or fashion all non-white people help the white people who practice white supremacy (racism) to maintain this unjust SYSTEM. That being said no non-white person is justified in mistreating any other non-white person because we think that person is helping the white supremacists (racists). We all do it.

    The objective is to minimize and eventually eliminate your participation in this unjust SYSTEM. The fastest and most efficient way to replace a SYSTEM of injustice with a SYSTEM of justice is to begin to produce a SYSTEM of justice. Justice meaning guaranteeing no person is mistreated and also guaranteeing the person that needs help the most get the most help. Some people may say "there are no guarantees".

    But you can guarantee that you can make sure no person is mistreated and also guarantee that you can make sure that you give the person who needs help the most will get the most help to the best of your ability. As you begin to do this and practice it on a daily basis you will become more able to do it...your ability to do it will increase and at the same time you minimize your participation in helping the white people who practice white supremacy (racism) because injustice and justice cannot exist in the same universe at the same time.

    If injustice exists anywhere in this universe then justice doesn't exist anywhere in this universe. Once injustice doesn't exist anywhere in this universe...and only can guarantee no person is mistreated and also guarantee that you can make sure that you give the person who needs help the most will get the most help. But you can't wait on anyone have to get started doing your part.
  3. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Aug 31, 2003
    Likes Received:
    gen·o·cide (j n -s d )
    The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

    [Greek genos, race; see gen - in Indo-European Roots + -cide.]

    gen o·cid al (-s d l) adj.
    gen o·cid al·ly adv.

    Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

    Main Entry: geno·cide
    Pronunciation: 'jen-&-"sId
    Function: noun
    : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group —compare HOMICIDE —geno·cid·al /"jen-&-'sId-&l/ adjective

    Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Inc.
  4. indya

    indya Well-Known Member MEMBER

    United States
    Aug 4, 2004
    Likes Received:
    This argument has been on posts here before. Yes, non-white people can be racist. Just go to the corner and listen to some Asians talk about blacks or some blacks talk about Mexicans. If you hate a group of people because of the color of their skin your racist. Racism doesn't equal white supremacy, anyone can be racist.
  5. Mad Skillz

    Mad Skillz Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Oct 28, 2004
    Likes Received:
    Real Estate
    So. Cal by way of L.I., New York
    I believe you're off base once again Indya. You must be very young. You are confusing racism with being prejudice. Two totally seperate scenarios. People who "talk" about others in a disparaging context would be defined as prejudice.

    According to Websters Dictionary racism is defined as "a belief that race is the primary determent of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

    Now Indya, do you honestly believe, or is there any consorted effort on behalf of Black people practicing "inherent superiority" over another? I don't know of any. However it's apparent for the last 500 years white people have exercised racism and continue to subcribe to the belief of inherent superiority in the most repugnant fashion. If anything, and sadly though, far to many Blacks believe they're inferior to others when that's not the case. Please don't tell me otherwise. Furthermore, Blacks don't possess the political, economic, nor military means (domestically or internationally) to manipulate others in their right of passage in the manner caucazoids have so eloquently orchestrated.

    To further illustrate my point a small white minority in D.C. or South Africa has more economic influence to manipulate and veto the present and future state of the Black majority. This is racism. But i'm sure you will some how engage in semantics to defend your original thesis. I can only wonder why.
  6. indya

    indya Well-Known Member MEMBER

    United States
    Aug 4, 2004
    Likes Received:
    To answer your question of why it is because I have a differing view than you... I am not very young, nor am I confused. I have traveled outside the US. Travel to Asia sometime and watch how they treat others who arn't Asian. Anyone can be racist, if you hate another race your racist whether or not you can suppress them or not, you hate a whole race, your racist.
    You can post whatever you wish on this issue I still believe that anyone has the abilty to be rascist. You can take the one deffinition that states you have to have power over someone else. I for one do not subcribe to that reasoning. I will give you the following quote and than I am done with this whole issue...., since we'll never agree anyway.


    -the attitude or belief that one's own race or ethnic group is superior to another or others, or that some other race or group is inferior to others.

    There are 6,153,407,895 people of different skin tones, beliefs and cultures that reside on our planet .The diversity of race, religion and culture on Earth should be the catalyst for mutual enrichment and growth. Racism is a product of fear and ignorance. The world is richer for the mixture of different types of people. Racism, to varying degrees and in various forms, infects virtually every country of the world. Racism is illogical. We all have the same DNA.

  7. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Aug 31, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Racism like genocide has a real intelletual and pseudo-scientific backbone.

    I hope this thread doesn’t digress to far into personal opinions that are not directed at the subject, but I agree with everybody’s right to opine and elaborate as they see fit. Mad Skillz, I agree with your definitive description of Racism. But let me try to remove the semantics that some may imply and maybe I can connect any digressions to the topic at hand…genocide.

    The term Racism could easily be articulated describing the simplest act of prejudice between two “so-called” races and could have some degree of accuracy if we want view everything through lens of reactionary Negroes. But, White Europeans pseudo-scientifically constructed systemic racialization, which is at the core of the modern world’s concept of Racism. It has a chronological history and was justified and inculcated by anthropologist, archeologist, sociologist and theologians, just to name a few. It wasn’t just fear and ignorance fueling the redneck hillbilly or the corporate executive. It was a systematic attempt of controlling the usable Negro and genocidally annihilating the unusable, who was sometimes view as an offensive opponent to White European hegemony and imperialism.

    Racism is illogical…?

    The greatest rationalist and intellectuals of European academia have historically embraced systemic racism. It was to them, the most logical defense and offense for a people who came from a small nation of marauders (Europeans) and who were intellectually ill-equipped to impress other greater nations to live under their long term subjugation.

    Europeans had just entered through the back door of civilization when most Great long-lived civilizations of color were at their zenith or downturn. This fact invoked an “inferiority complex” among Europeans, which in turn, began a new science and enterprise, based on old ideals…and that’s how systemic and institutional racism was born.

    For the one hundredth time…Read Marimba Ani’s, YURUGU…:teach:

    Peace and love,

    Brother Sun
  8. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    United States
    Feb 9, 2001
    Likes Received:
    Brother Sun Ship, I've read and meditated on this thread for a couple of days now. Initially, the question posed in your topic intrigued me but I wasn't sure about the correlation being presented. I admit that I haven't read the book that you recommend, Yurugu, but I definitely intend to now that I think I understand the focus of the topic, which stunned me. Having never thought of defining that which we consider to be "racism" in the more hardcore category of "genocide", I found the correlation shocking to say the least. Racism has a more limited and benign emphasis as compared to genocide which is far more pervasive, strategically designed, purposeful and ill-will intended. As I think this through slowly and very carefully now, it's not about white people once being masters and Black people once having been slaves. And it certainly isn't about integration and can we all just live happily together. Do even those whites who consider themselves liberal understand this concept that is being posed here? I wonder. Okay, I'm really thinking radical now and on the edge....suppose interracial marriages are part of a strategic plan designed to make us think that the concept of "love" goes beyond race just so that children born in these unions move Blacks further away from their original cultural identity? Thereby, these children are bred to become a part of the European cultural norm. Sort of like taking Hitler's plan one step farther to include interracial breeding.

    Minimally, the construct of genocide sheds an entirely different perspective on the subject of racism and the Black experience. It's almost too deep and far more scarey to even contemplate. Scarey or not though, you can't ignore the facts, can you Brother Sun Ship? Having said that, maybe we're fighting a ghost that has been coined as "racism" and not the real enemy (genocide) because we lack a thorough understanding of what we're up against. You think? Do we think a democracy (or what on the surface appears to be that) can bring about the changes we really need to survive this struggle? But thinking more about what we frequently call a struggle--it's more than a struggle if what we're experiencing truly is an act of genocide. This is a war and we need to be battling to save ourselves from further exploitation and ultimate extinction. The question you pose Brother Sun Ship is provacatively deep and should have us ALL thinking deeper. Have we become products of someone else's culture such that we're rendered powerless and in a perpetual state of confusion? I'm looking forward to some real discussion on this topic.

    Queenie :spinstar: :bowdown: