Black People : Gay Rights

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by define, Aug 14, 2004.

  1. define

    define Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    America has a history of discriminating against those who differ from the majority. It wasn’t that long ago when Blacks weren’t allowed to eat in the same restaurants as Whites and women weren’t granted the right to elect government leaders. During World War II, innocent Japanese-Americans were sent to prison camps as a result of Pearl Harbor. Looking back at these past injustices, it seems ridiculous that these minorities were discriminated against. Today there is a new group that American society is discriminating against—gays. The most recent issue is that of gay marriage. An amendment to ban gay marriage has been proposed and is in the works of being passed as a law. Yet again America is proving again to be a prejudice nation. And also yet again, there is no logic behind the discrimination of the modern, social outcasts known as the gay community.

    I often hear the notion that gay marriages are “immoral.” Who’s to say what is and isn’t immoral? Not all religions state that gays are morally wrong. Divisions of the Buddhism support gay relationships, thus a ban on gay marriage would infringe on freedom of religion. Yes, a majority of Americans are Christians, and parts of the Bible state that same sex relationships are wrong, but what about the part where it says accept and “love thy neighbors” no matter what their differences are? Moreover, why is the United States following the guidelines of the Bible anyways? Isn’t their supposed to be a separation between “church and state”?

    I’ve heard my freshmen basketball coach say that two men kissing in public are “nasty” and shouldn’t be legal. Well just because a homosexual sees a heterosexual kissing in a public place, should the government pass a bill banning such a lifestyle? A common argument is that gay relationships are “unnatural.” However, according to http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm, about 1500 animal species were studied and over 450 of those species had homosexual behavior. If gay relationships are common throughout nature how can they be “unnatural”?
    Does anyone else find it ironic that in Georgia an adult can marry a sixteen-year-old with parental consent, but two adults of the same sex are frown upon when wanting to wed? It is ridiculous that children can be granted liberties to marry who they choose to, yet some politicians want to make it illegal for adults to “sanctify” their relationships.

    One may say, “Marriage is for reproducing children.” Of course two people of the same sex cannot produce children, but there are also other couples who can’t either. Such couple could consist of a family with an impotent man or a woman with her “tubes tied”. Of course there aren’t laws prohibiting such a couple of marrying, so it would be prejudice to ban two people of the same sex to marry because they can’t reproduce children. Furthermore, is it so horrible that gay couples would be unable to produce children in an already overpopulated world?

    In addition, homosexual couples can always adopt children. This then produces another argument: same sex marriages cannot provide adequate parenting because the children would either lack a mother or father figure. However, there are plenty of single-parent homes that produce children beneficial to society, so why can’t a same sex parented family do the same?

    Instead of waiting for a fifty year period to look back at these events of blatant bigotry, the American people need to see the foolishness in hating gays now! Homosexuals pay taxes and work just as hard as any other American citizens, so the government has no right to deprive them of their constitutional rights. It is up to the American people to fight against such inequality. The tyrannical majority can only be defeated if Americans can recognize that denying people their right to wed because of sexual preference is absurd and has no logic behind it.
     
  2. Smurfette

    Smurfette Member MEMBER

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    What ever happend

    What ever happen to letting one be them selves? We beg for freedom everyday but yet stated in the constitution, we are givin the right to express
    ourselves. I think people should just let gay people be happy with themselves, let them live their lives they only have one life to live and who are we to decide what they should do. This is childish, Im pretty sure no one is tieing anyone of you down telling you who you can like who you can marry or anything of that sort. Let gays, live their lives, its only fair.
     
  3. Emeka

    Emeka Banned MEMBER

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    Define, please do not bring your homosexual agenda to this forum. You're trying to link the struggle for the right to marriage of homosexual to that which Black people face in this country. Uh uh, that ain't gonna fly here! The current attempts by gays in the media to somehow equate the discrimination, which they face in not being able to marry due to their life style, to that of 260 years of slavery (in northern America) and 100 years of segregation is a joke! The gay marriage question has to do with the preservation of the very fabric of society itself—the family—and not of the rights of homosexuals to exist. This was not the case for Black people world wide. Caucasians seriously questioned and debated (and still do) our right to live on this world as human beings. I feel it is an insult to Black people for anyone to even mention (or in your case hint at) the homosexual cause with the Civil Rights movement in the same sentence. And NO, we WON'T "embrace" your cause, nor will we try and build a "coalition" with the gay rights movement! Thanx.
     
  4. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I would have to agree with brother Chukwuemeka. There certainly isn't a history of discrimination against homosexuals in America. Historically the only "right" denied to homosexuals was a refusal to have their partners included in their medical benefits, and the inability to join the military. This right is no longer refused because many states now recognize domestic partnerships; and the army has a don't ask, don't tell rule (which was an option available to them anyway). Besides this homosexuals have lived and been subject to the rights, benefits, and lifestyle of their race.

    Indeed the recently revelation of New Jersey's governor Jim McGreevey displays how little difficulty homosexuals (particularly white homosexuals) have in American society: He attended private all boys Catholic Schools (of whom many students were openly gay, and McGreevey himself was known to be very "liberal" on the topic). He attended Ivy League schools: Columbia University, Harvard, and obtained a law degree from Georgetown. He had a career in politics, and became the governor of New Jersey (one of the most powerful states in the country) at the extremely young age of 44. I might also add that he signed one of the country's strongest domestic partnership laws. McGreevey might not have been openly homosexual; however, he has always been in the company of homosexuals, and extremely gay friendly. This did not hurt his career or limit his progress because despite his sexuality Jim McGreevey was (and remains).....A WHITE MAN!!!

    McGreevey's statement that, "I am a Gay-American" like that makes him something other than a white man, is so ridiculous it is comical! As it is with McGreevey, so is it for every other homosexual. I don't support discriminating against any other people, but I have yet to be convinced that homosexuals are being discriminated against in society. They might be called nasty names, but so are many people. Show me that people don't get jobs because they are homosexual...denied medical care because of the same...are served in restaurants or hotels because of their sexuality...victims of police brutuality because of their sexual preferences, etc. The only right being denied homosexuals is the right for marriage. Well that isn't an important enough issue, for me to want to include them in the Black Civil Rights struggle.
     
  5. define

    define Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    First and for most, I agree with Smuf.

    Secondly, this is directed towards Chuk. Please, do not tell me what I can and cannot bring to the forum. This is a forum where we have political discussion, not withhold opinion. And, the whole point of the article seemed to blow right over your head. You got caught in my America discriminates rather then paying attention to the heart of the article. By no ways am I comparing the degrees of discrimination between Blacks and gays. Don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out American history.

    Thirdly, to Pan. You cannot say that just because one gay person was successful, which you admit in keeping his preference a secret, that makes it easy for all gays. Gays get fired all the time because they admit their sexual preference. Gays are victims of hate crimes, so have even gotten killed because of their sexual preference. And for anyone to deny the fact that they have been is absurd. And! Who's asking you to include it in the Blacks Civil Rights struggle? Did I ask that? I'm confused. I thought the title of this was "Gay Rights" not "Black Activist need to push for Gay Rights" Peaces
     
  6. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The gay rights movement is being linked to the black civil rights movement, you didn't have to mention this, because it is part of the discussion. McGreevey isn't the only successful gay man there is...Homosexuals are some of the most powerful businessmen in the country! Am I suppose to believe that some white man born to priviledge is suddenly an oppressed minority, because of his bedroom practices? No this is insane!

    Have some gays been attacked and killed because of their sexuality? Of course they have, and this is unfortunate. But homosexuals as a group are not discriminated against in America, and there is not a history of discrimination against them in this country...certainly nothing to compare to racism. If I'm wrong prove me wrong: Show me cases of discrimination against homosexuals (on a national level). In my extensive study of US history all I am aware of was a law against sodomy in Texas (which was local), the refusal to join the military, and denial of medical benefits to partners. This hardly compares to the experience of African Americans.

    Show me gays being denied home loans...show me leases banning renting property against gays...demonstrate that homosexuals have been placed in ghettos...where on a job application does it require a person to list their sexuality? How is an employer going to even find out a person is gay? Is that a daily water cooler discussion? Demonstrate that gays are not capable of blending or mixing into society, if they so choose to. The ability to do this has limited discrimination against gays, because as I said, race is more important than sexuality. Whether or not a person is homosexual they remain first and foremost a member of their particular race (whether it be white, black, asian, etc)...with the rights & benefits appertaining.
     
  7. define

    define Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Being denied the right to marry is a case of discrimination.

    Now it comes down to choice I see. So you are saying that if they choose not to express who they are, they can mix in with the race? So they have to sacrifice their beliefs and who they are in order to not be discriminated against. Sounds like the human stain.
     
  8. Emeka

    Emeka Banned MEMBER

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    I wouldn't have to tell you what to bring into this forum if you weren't so eager to push your degenerate sexual preference agenda! And no the whole point did not blow over my head you listed a whole range of weak points (such as homosexuality being present with animals?) as being a basis for gay marriage. Anyway, as Pan so succinctly stated, you didn't have to compare "...the degrees of discrimination between Blacks and gays", it's already being done for you in the media. Every time the topic of gay marriage crops up in the media, there is ALWAYS a tacit and a lot of times overt connection with the Black Civil rights movement. And the thing that vexes me is that our so-called Black "leaders" agree with them!! Just about every visible Black leader (including Jessie, Al, and even Coretta) has come in support of gay marriage. This is not what the Black community needs to attach itself to…I'm sorry.
     
  9. define

    define Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I am the media now I guess. :)

    And why can't Black leaders support Gay Marriage? Is that so wrong to stand up for others? Am I wrong for standing up for others?
     
  10. Emeka

    Emeka Banned MEMBER

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    There is EVERYTHING wrong with our leaders supporting Gay Marriage! Firstly their struggle is not our own; we have enough problems of our own without having to take care of any "disgruntled" groups who wish to further their own agendas. And secondly, homosexuality is a degenerate sexual preference, which goes against our Black culture, our God and is a threat to our families (which is already in crisis and doesn't need further attacks). And yes you are wrong for standing up for others if their cause threatens your own self interests. Homosexuality is clearly a threat to our Black society (and even that of the mainstream), which we should not advance but denigrate. That's right I'm advocating that we denigrate homosexuality, but NOT the people who practice it (just in case some idiot tries misconstrue my words to label me a homophobic). Thanx
     
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