Black People : Gay rights = Civil Rights?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by MasterDJ, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. MasterDJ

    MasterDJ Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    A college friend of mine wrote an article venting about the new cali Law banning Gay marriage. I wrote a response and another young lady replied. I in turn replied and upon awaiting her response I figured this would be interesting to discuss here also. I am gonna post The note on here to set up a preliminary and we can go from there......





    CALI PROP 8 BANNING GAY MARRIAGE
    Yesterday at 11:38pm
    Gays are blaming Blacks as the "culprits" of the passing of Prop 8...

    I am a young Black voter from San Diego. I am getting extremely annoyed with people in the media, be that celebs or anchors, equating the passing of Prop 8 with discrimination of Black people. No, actually, I am offended. I was born Black and it is something I cannot hide. I cannot keep my skin in a proverbial closet. And just because there are Black, Hispanic, Asian or whatever culture/race that are homosexual, it does not make me phathom or formulate my mind to equate the passing of Prop 8 with my ancestors and I finally getting the right to vote, etc. IT IS NO WHERE NEAR THE SAME.....STOP equating the struggle of Black people, a people who had no choice in the way they were born with a group of people that have chosen to live the way they are living. (yes, that means that I believe homosexuals have chosen to live this lifestyle and if thats what you want to do fine, great, lets eat cheese cake) Homosexuals have and always will claim that they live a lifestyle that does not adhere to societal norms and they claim to like it that way...yet they still want to get married...ooohhh, ohhhh, now they want to be "normal" huh...sit down, shut up, and have your unity ceremony like you guys always have and stop infringing on the rights hetero couples and families. If you want to be gay, fine, I love you and respect that decision, but its disrespectful to have my entire culture/race's struggle equated with this situation...most Black people are very traditional about marriage and very weary of homosexuality and do not see homosexuals having a struggle at all and most Black folk sure as hell don't see this in the same wave length as the civil rights movement--get the f outta here. Also, the reason some of us voted doesn't even necessarily mean its because of our religious beliefs...but yeah, the equation of gays not being able to marry each other and 400 hundered years of real denied rights against Black Americans by the American government in this country is ridiculous and offensive...I had to get that off my chest. I am so freakin annoyed.


    Again, I am not a "homophobe", I fear no man...except Hilary Clinton...I love everybody, including all sexuals...yes, sexuals.. but the media needs to stop blaming Black folks and gay celebrities need to get over themselves cause Melissa Etheridge and Ellen were the main one's spreadin that bull****...its bull****...all they have to do is appeal and we'll vote all over again...they were just shocked cuz Blacks voted for Barack...oh...that rhymed...lol..I'm engaged and pregnant and I do not want my child learnin about that bs when I don't want them to, I it want to be on my time and these schools have lost their damned minds teachin 7 year olds about Timmy and Tommy's great love----F&@#$$&$&$&K NO!!! I'm sorry, this is a rant and I just put Jesus aside for a moment forgive my language, my bad.




    and i lied...I aint engaged and I aint havin no baby...are u kidding me...it just made my rant sound a little more sane.
    (Chicago, IL) wrote
    at 12:39am
    Ummmmm, wow! But how canyou say **** and not say ****?! lol Excuse my language.



    Daniel Jones wrote
    at 8:21am
    Thats whats up G! This is why I miss the NP! We probably all would have been going off in burgh lobby if you brought this discussion up lol! Nawl, for real though...I have been feeling the same way ever since I first heard that argument about three years back! But when u have something thats not natural you have to deceive people into supporting because facts simply wont work. The civil rights struggle was won over time with fact not fiction...sorry but cakeism just cant say the same! A-Salaam a Laikum! LOL



    Chasity Lovelace wrote
    at 8:53am
    It's not necessary that gay and lesbian couples want to be "married" so much as have civil unions. How would you feel if the person you decided to spend the rest of your life with was in the hospital and you were denied the right to go back and see them because they can't show you as any relation? And not all gay and lesbians are excited about living a lifestyle against societal norms. In being queer, and as part of the larger queer community, I haven't run into anyone who was so jubilant about being different.

    It is a struggle, and I'm sorry for what you've heard in the media. But we all know the media has always had its own agenda and only speaks its biases anyway. The only correlation I see between the two movements is that we want to be recognized and given certain rights.

    It's ok that the gay and lesbian "lifestyle" is a choice, but most of the people in it do not see it that way. And even the term "lifestyle" regarding to this community is such a general term. Not all of us in this "lifestyle" are the same.

    But again, I'm sorry that whatever you heard in the media that offended you. But please be so respectful as to not generalize these statements to all people in the queer community. Some of us do want to get married. Some of us aren't ecstatic about being different, and some of us really just want our voices heard and to see some compassion, an act that isn't always shown to the queer community or to the black community.

    Sorry this is a long comment, and I know this note was probably just posted because you needed to rant, but I felt impelled to defend the other side. Please, I'm not looking for a debate, just an understanding. We just want a place in the broader community, because many times (especially if you aren't in a big city) these places are hard to find.




    Daniel Jones wrote
    at 9:19am
    @ Chasity,

    While your statement was well written I believe that the basis of your argument is more so an emotional appeal. However, Tramaines note is more about speaking out against a "factual lie"! I understand that its an oxymoron but it aids the mind in understanding the entirety of the issue. Like Tramaine stated, if thats your decision then leave at that but when the basis of your stance is contingent upon, what i call bandwagoneering, a previous movement in order to gain support then that is wrong. For example, we all are used to the slogans "yes we can" and "Change" due to the popularity of Obama's election.Those slogans have an undertone value of 450+ years attatched to them including struggles, beatings, rallies, riots, lectures, campaigns, movements, organizations, ballots, and so much more. If some guy shows up at a dog show claiming that for the past 5 years a yorkie has won because it was so cute but now he wants change to come to america and has the crowd chanting yes we can...it doesn't illegitimize his purpose but it is extremely disheartening and offensive for that guy to bandwagoneer off of a movement with an entirely different cause. What it boils down to is why not just be original? Why associate yourself with someone elses struggle when your mission and purpose and is completely different and the origin of circumstances are also. Creativity is what is lacking! If you wanna use historical instances to gain support then please let me direct you to Greek history but please do avoid using the struggles of Blacks to gain momentum for your cause...and I say this irrespective of my views on homosexuality! Peace!
     
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    it is analogous to civil rights

    i believe gay people should be free to do what ever they want to do. life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    i believe the state has no right to control marriage.
     
  3. Astrologer4U

    Astrologer4U Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Although I have nothing against gays and what they stand for, I voted yes on Prop 8. I voted yes because as a heterosexual, I can't have partner rights. I can't shack up with a man and the same rights two married people. Gays have rights strictly for them as partners which allows them to ad their partners to their health insurance or leave to them their estate.

    I work for my self and I can not find decent medical insurance that will not make me go broke paying the bills. I have to see a doctor once a year and because I am a female, I have to make sure that every other year I at least see the gynecologist. For that once a year of seeing a doctor, my medical bills are high. I don't get to pay a fraction of the cost, I have to pay the entire bill. If blood work needs to be done, I have to pay the lab in order to get the resutls and that is a seperate cost from paying the doctor who took the blood.


    Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to pretend that I was gay, and get me a female to play along with it so that I could use her benefits because she has a job where she gets medical benefits, that is what I could do. However, as long as I am black and the color of my skin shows that I am black, I can't pretend to be white, I can't hide the fact that I am black so that I may be treated as whites are treated.


    To sum it all up, I don't think homsexuality, gay rights is a fair comparison to the civil rights blacks fought and died for. How many gays are dying for their gay rights in comparison to blacks who died for civil rights? You cannot measure the numbers in comparison because to many gays are pretending to be straight, or just not saying anything about their sexuality at all. I think to compare gays to blacks is smiply a ridiculous ploy.

    Another thing to, I don't see gays fighting for the rights for everyone, I see them fighting for themselves. When those partnership rights were passed, they should have been passed for heterosexuals people as well.

    I could be wrong about one thing, the pertnership law may not be active everywhere in the US but it is in California.


    MasterDJ, I think this is an interesting topic, thank you for posting what the young black college students think.



    Sister


    Astrolger4u
     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!





    MasterDJ,

    No society known to mankind has been able to legislate Laws of Morality!

     
  5. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I agree 100%............

    and

    I agree 100%......
     
  6. Knowledge Seed

    Knowledge Seed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As far as laws go, I'm not for or against homosexuality. Whatever law gets passed, just passes. I could care less. :SuN020:
     
  7. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    There is no way on this side of the universe that gay rights & civil rights are comparable.
    Gay is a choice, and a wrong one at that. It goes against every law of nature. And though I truly feel that we all have the right of choice, homosexuality is just a wrong choice to make.
    To compare civil rights & gay rights is an insult.
     
  8. blackeyes

    blackeyes Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I totally agree. Prop 8 is like the best thing cali did since they closed those bath houses.
     
  9. free2b_me

    free2b_me Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    OMG!!!

    I am from California, and yes I voted "Yes" on Prop 8 - meaning a ban on Gay Marriages!! What the frenchtoast?? I just dont get it.. I whole heartedly agree with the ORIGINAL post. What does the institution of Marriage mean anyway? I thougt, if Im not mistaken, that it was a blessing from GOD bestowed upon a man and a woman to go out and be fruitful??? I could be wrong ya know, Ive never been married, but that's what I thougt.... Anyhoot, How can two men or two women benefit from that blessing by going out and adopting?? Sorry, not the same, not the same!!! I wish a m***f**** woulda been trying to teach that to my kids in school!! Moma dont play!! What is this world coming to?? Its bad enough that we are becoming more and more desensitised and accepting of this lifestyle.. We as str8 people dont go around having parades and blocking off city streets for the whole weekend talking about how proud we are being str8!!

    With that being said, I do not have any malice in my heart for Gay people, (actually I mean [WIKIPEDIA]homosexuals[/WIKIPEDIA] because [WIKIPEDIA]Gay[/WIKIPEDIA]can mean happy:spinn:)

    I put wikipedia on those words so no one gets them mixed up!!
     
  10. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The more you deny a people something, the more they reach for it, and fight for it, even if that thing is poison. It's actually a very effective method of social engineering. You know. Like Blacks and voting.

    Those in power, the social engineers- already know when you take power away from people, they will naturally gravitate towards any group or movement that is finding "loopholes" to gain power. Such is the case with the Homosexual moment.
    People will convert into anything in hopes to gain an avantage. Such is the case with being so-called white, christian and even the rich.

    It has nothing to do with giving gays the rights to get married. Homosexuals can get married all day long. Marriage is based on the imagination- not law. There are religious groups that define their own marriages. It has more to do with getting the Gov't to recognize same sex unions for legal and monetary purposes.

    But you see, even heterosexuals don't know what a real marriage is, so if gays think they can do a better job then they should give it a shot. The Gov't doesn't really care either way. What they do know is that homosexuality is a good population control tool. And the more people you have crying about how disenfranchising homosexuals are for not having the right to get married, the more accepted their movement becomes.

    When they announce they are going to give "Gays" reparations for being mistreated for all of these years, I expect to see some so-called Black Revolutionaries in line with their shirts tied above their navel. Because many of them are totally confused about what "civil" rights mean.

    Soon "Liberation" will be a franchise.
     
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