Brother AACOOLDRE : Garvey Vs Dubois

Discussion in 'AACOOLDRE' started by AACOOLDRE, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    MARCUS GARVEY VS. W.E.B DUBOIS
    By Andre Austin

    In 1915 Booker T Washington had died making Dubois the defacto spokesperson for the black race until Garvey came to America the same year from Jamaica. Dubois didn’t like Garvey and said because he was a West Indian he couldn’t speak for Africa or Blacks in America. Now Garvey could have countered and said Dubois was half white so how could he speak for the souls of black folk here in America. If all of this was true then Elijah Muhammad or Malcolm X couldn’t speak for black folk because their grandfathers were white through rape of black women. I recall a white Republican newspaper Jackson Citizen Patriot publishing articles of mine on thanksgiving day implying I was native American and couldn’t speak for Black folk because I have a Native-American grandfather on my mother side but what about my Black grandfather on my father with whom I knew. You see when you deal with a Republican newspaper your dealing with Willie Lynch the architect of black division. Dubois could have been a student of lynch.

    Dubois biggest mistake was helping the FBI bring down Garvey who had 2 million followers in America and 4 million worldwide. Garvey owned the Black Star Line company that own several ships; and one was privately called Booker T. Back in 1912 The White star Line owned the Titanic. In 1924 trumped up charges of mail fraud came against Garvey. Garvey had apparently converted stock money from the ship shareholders into his restaurant and newspaper business. The moment Garvey went into jail Dubois used Garvey’s famous slogan: “Africa for Africans” and said Garvey was West Indian and shouldn’t use the phrase.

    Garvey didn’t hate whites he just wanted to separate from their injustice and get some economic power to insulate self from racism; whereas Dubois wanted to go to court and get a law to make whites love blacks. Garvey created the red, black and green flags we used to this day and had the first Miss black America pageants. They say Elijah Muhammad was a corporal in the UNIA and Malcolm X father was member leader of one of his branches in Michigan. Dubois hated Garvey with a passion and said in an article: “Lunatic or Traitor”. Garvey shot back: “Dubois is speculating as to whether Garvey is a lunatic or a traitor. Garvey has no such speculation about Dubois. He is positive that he is a traitor”. In 1924 Dubois was a traitor to one half part of his race =Garvey who was now in prison then deported. I wish Dubois wouldn‘t of came into contact with Garvey until 1934 when Dubois left the NAACP because he advocated black progress through self-segregation and economic advancement. He would have got along with booker T and Garvey. Dubois rejoined the NAACP in 1944, Garvey died in 1940 broke in London. Dubois asked Amy Garvey, the wife of Marcus for help in getting delegates to a Pan African Congress in 1944. Was this Dubois gesture of admitting he was wrong?

    The eminent Sociologist E. Franklin Frazier mirrored Garvey’s assessment of Dubois:

    “In the Souls of black folk we have a classic statement of a cultural hybrid with his double consciousness. On the one hand sensitive to every slight concerning the negro, and feeling on the other hand little kinship or real sympathy for the great mass of crude, uncouth black peasants with whom he was identified. For, in spite of the way in which Dubois having written concerning the masses he has no real sympathetic understanding of them. The souls of black folk is a masterly portrayal of Dubois soul and not a real picture of the black masses”.

    Was Dubois Double consciousness due to his double race of black and white. To be fair to Dubois I will quote from his book, the classic The Souls of Black Folk:

    “The negro is a sort of seventh son, born with a veil, and gifted with second sight in this American world-a world which yields him no true self-consciousness, but only lets him see himself through the revelation of the other world. It is a peculiar sensation, this double-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one’s self through the eyes of others, of measuring one’s soul by the tape; of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity. One ever feels his two-ness-an American, a negro; two souls, two thoughts, two unrecognized strivings two warring ideas in one dark body, whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder.

    The history of the American negro is the history of this strife-thins longing to attain self-conscious manhood, to merge his double self into a better and truer self…he simply wishes to make it possible for a man to be both a negro and American, without being cursed and spit upon by his fellows, without having the doors of opportunity closed roughly in his face”.

    Does this sound like a man trapped in two worlds of black and white blood in self or speaking for black America. Garvey made his own doors of opportunity like Booker T and didn’t care to be in bed with a white girl. Garvey was comfortable being dark skinned and booker T brown skinned. Dubois was light and **** near white and didn’t appreciate the self reliance booker T and Garvey wanted. To illustrate the point read this poem:

    Booker T & W.E.B

    By Dudley Randall

    “It seems to me”, said Booker T.,
    “it shows a mighty lot of cheek
    To study chemistry and Greek
    When mister Charlie needs a hand
    To hoe the cotton on his land,
    And when Miss Ann looks for a cook
    Why stick your nose inside a book?”

    “I don’t agree”, said W.E.B.
    “If I should have the drive to seek
    Knowledge of chemistry or Greek,
    I’ll do it. Charles and Miss Ann can look
    Another place for hand or cook
    Some men rejoice in skill of hand,
    And some in cultivating land,
    But there are others who maintain
    The right to cultivate the brain”.

    “It seems to me”, said Booker T,
    “That all you folks have missed the boat
    Who shout about the right to vote,
    And spend vain days and sleepless nights
    In uproar over Civil Rights.
    Just keep your mouths shut, do not grouse
    But work, and save, and buy a house”.

    “I don’t agree”, said W.E.B
    “For what can property avail
    If dignity and justice fail.
    Unless you help to make the laws,
    They’ll steal your (draws) and house
    With trumped -up clause.
    A rope’s as tight, a fire as hot,
    No matter how much cash you’ve got
    Speak soft, and try your little plan
    But as for me, I’ll be a man”.

    “It seems to me”, said Booker T.
    “I don’t agree”, said W.E.B

    I love this binary battle.
    Past Future
    1.Dubois (d.1963) Dubois spoke for the talented tenth (Cornel West/ Julian Bond)
    2.Booker T (d.1915) T spoke for business class (Urban league/Sports/Arts)
    3.Garvey (d.1940) Garvey spoke for the Black masses ( Louis Farrakhan)

    All three spoke for freedom, justice and equality and should have come together AS One on those principles but differed on how to achieve them. In America there are always these three type of men in our society . We should never try to imprison or harm each other just because we are on a different path towards manhood.

    Note:
    1925 Garvey went to federal prison in Atlanta. President Coolidge communted garvey sentence in 1927 and was released and deported. He tried in vain to come back to America. He even pleaded to get medical care for diabetes but was denied.

    Garvey original came to America to replicate Booker T Washington school and business but ended up staying and creating the UNIA.
     
  2. 360

    360 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm sorry, but lol I have to fix that.

    Dubois(spoke for whites)West, Dyson, Bond, Al, Jesse, Farrakhan, Obama,etc
    Booker T(spoke for whites)West, Dyson, Bond, Al, Jesse, Farrakhan, Obama, etc
    Garvey(spoke for folk(mostly))random folk who's voices can't be heard over the sound of house negroes licking massa's boots and sucking on his table scraps
     
  3. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think it is somehwat more complex than that. Garvey was greatly influenced by Washington's work to uplift the African masses. In other words, Wahington's work was a mass movement which is what we need now. He coolected pennies and sold eggs to build a school up from a henhouse. Nobody has exceded that level of leading the African masses towards freedom. But, we have been taught to hate Washington although he is the ONLY ONE of the people mentioned who has left and enduring legacy to instituion building for Africans. He built a great university at a time when virtually all African schools were owned and operated by Europeans, especially the missionary types. The others made some intersting theories. But, Washington actually did sonmething towrds nation building. To build institutions is what nation building is all about. So in this sense, Washington was probably the greatest African nationalist of his time.
     
  4. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    I have always LOVED this poem! :toast:

    However, I see the oppositional stances of Booker T/DuBois as being reflective of every other 2 leadership sides in the history of Black Civil Rights.

    A. Philip Randolph and Garvey are another example of Booker T and DuBois, just as Malcolm and Martin were.

    Actually, Booker T and DuBois BOTH had wonderful ideas for Black empowerment....It's just that, sadly, as usual with Black folks, they couldn't come to a consensus between their ideologies.

    Moreover, there is a "Time and Season" to everything.

    So, IMO, Garvey, Booker T, DuBois, Randolph, Malcolm and Martin ALL provided parts of what Black people in America needed in their "Times and Seasons."

    Booker T advocated personal/financial empowerment through vocational and agricultural studies. He thought those things would help Black people out of our abject poverty, in that "Time and Season" and enable us to have some "ownership" of land and property while working for/around White people and not forfeiting our Right but just postponing them a while.

    DuBois advocated an immediate fighting for Civil Rights and social change by demanding what the Constitution says Black people are guaranteed and that a higher education was needed for this, i.e. "The Talented 10th," and NOT domestic/ vocational work and farming.

    Booker T received a lot of negativity from DuBois and others for his
    speech given in 1895 in Atlanta, GA.

    Because of this speech, Washington was called an "Accommodadist" and berated for his downplaying of Black Rights and uplifting working/serving White people.

    But, we also should remember that this speech was given only 30 years after the end of slavery.....Of course, the White people LOVED his speech and many of the Blacks heard him encouraging Black men having LIVING WAGE JOBS. (However, we also know that didn't happen in the South or North for a loooong time.)
    .

    And I still see his words today in how too many of us place more importance on the "superficial" versus the "substantial."----Just because we, now, CAN do things we once couldn't do and go places we once couldn't go and buy what we want, we BUY either BUY a lot of it or we BUY what we WANT before we BUY what we NEED....still caught up in the "ornamental gewgaws" instead of the "USEFUL.".

    And 8 years after Washington gave his speech, in 1903, DuBois wrote "The Talented Tenth.
    So, again, Booker T and DuBois both worked from their sides of the street.

    But, again, sadly, many African Americans have ridiculed both, still separating ourselves with labels of "Field N!gg3r" and "House N!gg3r."
     
  5. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I love all these replies and the "FBI and willie Lynch" it follows
     
  6. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Dubois was a highly educated intellectual. I will not berate him here. But, we need to see him for what he was.

    Washington was also highly educated. Most do not know that he was a PHD. Thus, it is proper to call both Africans "Doctor", Dr. Dubois and Dr. Washington. What annoys me is the fact that people generally do not give Dr. Washington his props.

    Now, one of the Africans was educated in the soft sciences, the arts and liberal studies sort of stuff. He is the Father of Sociology in the USA. The other was educated in more hands on, practical matters. If memory seves me, Dr. Washington was educated in education. Dr. Dubois did a lot in terms of literary work and the socila sciences. His history of the slave trade is still the best work on the subject. But, Washington did it in concrete implementation of ideas and thought.

    Here is the key for those who sincerely want an answer to this matter.

    Dubois picked up the reins of the Pan-African Congress Movement. But, he kept it in the arena of elite intellectuals. Thus, after decades of big meetuings and long discussions, Pan-Africanism pretty much fittered out.

    In 1945, Osagyefo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah took Dubois' high fallooting theories and ideas and merged them with Washington's practicality. Thus, a Fifth Pan-African Congrees was called and Nkrumah and George Padmore became the leaders of the Movement.

    The merger of the two approaches gave way to the African Revolution in which first Egypt, then Ghana and Guinea became independent. (Another important note is that the Garvey Movement which had been inspired to a large extent by Islam had an impact in terms of the Liberation of Egypt under the Muslim Abdel-Nasser. Thus, the Christians found common ground with the Muslims. Nkrumah spells this out in his book, Consciencism: Philosopy and Ideology fro decolonization. Read it.)

    So, the key is Nkrumahism. Nkrumahism contains the best thought and actions of both Dubois and Washington. But, Nkrumah's government was overthrown early on. And, it was Ahmed Sekou Toure who implememtned Nkrumahism in a much more practical manner. Thus, Nkrumahism-Toureism is the ideological framwork that we discovered nearly 20 years ago to carry the African Revolution to its next stage.
     
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