Black Relationships : Friendship or Love?

Discussion in 'Black Relationships' started by A007, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I believe many people get married for the wrong reason..LOVE!

    I bet many of you are thinking.."what is this fool talking about?"

    I don't believe Love is anywhere close to enough for marriage, especially since most of us have no idea what love is. When presented with the question of what love is-- we all have varying answers; and because these answers are so different, often we get into marriages with people who have a completely different defintion of love. I mean...How many of us ask our partners what their definition of love is? It never crossed my mind until we started arguing about her selfishness.

    Her definition of love consisted of companionship, compliance, and lust...not her exact words but close.

    My definition of love was friendship, sacrifice, forgiveness, and affection (which sometimes includes lust).

    If we take away the affection and lust(cause they cancel themselves out) and take away companionship, compliance, and forgiveness (cause you can get that from a pet) take away sacrifice cause we can get that from our parents. We are left with friendship. I believe that friendship(which includes great communication) is more important than love in and of itself.

    So the questions are...What are your definitions of love? and...Would you date or marry someone who had a different definiton of love?
     
  2. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As you stated...everyone has their own definition of love, therefore it stands to reason that we will date or marry someone with a different definition.

    Even though it differs among us, the one thing that it has in common with us all is that it's a preconceived idea of how we relate to people we care about. I tried to substitute love one time in my life...tried to downplay it's importance in a relationship...tried to rationalize just as you are why it's not needed, oh yeah, I thought "respect" was more important at one time. That was then...this is now, without love (whatever your definition of it)...a relationship will not obtain the highest level it can achieve. The mystery of "love" is that we want to define it for others based on the definition we have for ourselves...it doesn't work that way...it was meant to be different. Whether a person's definition of love is simplistic in nature or complicated to the core, one doesn't override the other.

    I don't have a definition of love...so I can't answer your question. I've stop trying to define things that cannot be defined. To define it would mean to restrict it and love cannot be restricted.
     
  3. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    love is a mystery love is untouched and only that person
    feels it deep within their heart ......yes most really can't
    say what love really is nor how to love but love is a bond
    a whole heart emotional thing we all see it different
    love is a true feeling one pose to vow in heart and holds
    to giveth unto one's mate he/she offers
    love is brand by the motional bond of two
    yes respect is a key as loyality and comfort
    but who really know love
    God is da pure love ,
    how was love born well that's a whole different thing
    love can be defined many ways
    it all depend on the two soulmates

    the answer yet unknown !
     
  4. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good topic

    First, I want to be clear that my comments are confined to the love felt between a man and a woman. I need to make that distinction because there are different types of love.

    Dre', I sorta understand what your point is. Love alone, without some other ingredients in a relationship, may not survive the test of time. That's why I believe that a couple should also be spiritually (not religiously) compatible in order for love to genuinely blossom and evolve to its highest (or deepest) level.

    But as ZG pointed out and I agree, without it, what do you really have? You might have a relationship that works in other ways, but what happens when you have this strong desire to feel that special closeness to someone and that feeling doesn't exist in the home where you lay your head a night.

    Without love in a marriage I think all you have is a shallow relationship because love is the ultimate emotion that a person can feel. That's why it's so elusive and misunderstood because I believe to truly feel love, it takes the best that a person can give of him/herself.

    I also agree that love, like hate, cannot be defined. Opposite emotions but probably felt with the same or similar intensity. The difference between them though is that love has healing powers whereas hate can destroy you. Love can lengthen your life and improve the quality of it, whereas hate makes you a pathetic human being and will send you to an early grave. That's my opinion anyway. Hate is much easier to achieve though. It doesn't require much of a self-sacrifice or compel you to rise to a higher level like love can do.

    Finally, I believe that it's okay for a couple to have different definitions of love because if love is TRULY there, it won't matter. When you genuinely love someone, you will be more than happy to love them the way that makes them happy because when they are happy, so should you be too. To answer your question, yes, I could marry someone that had a different definition of love than me but I wouldn't marry someone whose value system was different than my own. I probably wouldn't be in a relationship with someone like that period.

    Love is a precious and scare commodity that I wouldn't want to let go to waste on the wrong person.
     
  5. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thanks

    Thanks everyone for your responses.

    I agree on some things and disagree on others. I disagree that love is necessary for a long lasting and meaningful relationship (at least at the start). Many people in other countries still have arranged marriages and their divorce rates are farrrr less than ours. In those arrangements in which mutual respect and fair treatment are prevailent the men and women have stated that they are fulfilled. Because they are commited from the outset (mostly for family reasons), they are forced to eliminate divorce as an option and begin to be friends because they realize its going to be a long life if they are not. And most times love grows from friendship and respect. Granted there are those arrangements in which the women are basically terrorized, but that happens here also.

    I agree that love can not possibly have one definition, but to not, at least, try to define it for onesself leaves it up to pure emotion to find or not find and my opinion is that it would be a mistake to leave it up to emotion. Our emotions are--in most cases--what leads us astray. Without some rules of thumb our quest for love leads us to people whom are all wrong for us.

    I don't have all the answers...as a matter of fact I have very few...but for me I will take a friend before a lover any day. If after time we have not grown to love each other then we can at least remain friends. See...hate is not the opposite of love...apathy is. In most cases those people we hate so much are the people who have the ability to hurt us the most because we still care so much. If we didn't care at all what they did...then that is a real lack of love.

    So from a rational standpoint...if love is sooo abiguous, immanagable, ever-changing, and elusive...Why do we continue to base our marriages solely on love?? especially if we don't know what it is or what its supposed to do for us because we either can't or won't find out what it means to us..personally. Of course its necessary to feel that ultimate elation that comes from being one with someone but I submit that it can grow from simple friendship and respect.

    What cha think??

    peace and luv
    Dre'
     
  6. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    People don't base marriages (or relationships for that matter) "solely" on love, there are other factors involved as well.

    I believe that love is a choice, we choose who and what we want to love, and that choice can be based on many things, and those things that might perhaps make me choose to love can be totally different from the things that perhaps will make you choose to love.

    I'm not saying to you that you shouldn't try to define it...just know that you can only define it for you...your definition will not work for others, so you're back to square one.
     
  7. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I Agree

    Zero--

    I agree with you 100% on everything you said except being back at square 1. The fact that I have defined what love means for me puts me many steps towards it. I believe that many of us don't get what we want because we don't really know what it is we want. Most of us know what we DON'T want but thats far from knowing what we want. For me...knowing that frienship, trust, and communication will be the foundation for my love keeps me from confusing things such as good sex, looks, money, and compliance with love. Like you said...thats for me, but I think that definition puts me a long ways from square 1.

    peace and luv

    Dre'
     
  8. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Because.............

    Love makes the world go round...all you need is love...love is a many splendored thing..because it's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all! All cliche's, but true.

    Dre', the way I see it, love is not the problem, it's people's confusion about love that is the problem.

    ZG...I don't quite understand the concept of love being a choice. In the context of feelings toward another human being, if all the stars are in proper alignment, do we really make the choice of who to love? I don't know, maybe that's too deep for me to grasp at the moment. I'm going to continue to reflect on that.

    Part of my struggle with that is that saying that can have the power to choose who to love makes it sound like it's this tangible thing that can be manipulated by us. I think of love as a source of energy. We emit this energy into the universe and it flows between people. I think the energy can either be attracted or repelled depending on the compatibility of the people. Maybe I'm more into the metaphysics of it.

    Where does love come from--the heart, the brain? I guess you would have to know something about it in order to recognize what it is if you think you feel it or want to feel it and don't think you do.

    Is love learned or is it a part of our human structure? Can animals feel love and do they know how to define it? Can an animal demonstrate love? For humans, is it so complicated to define it or are we simply making it complicated due to our modern day experiences?

    Can a simple act of kindness be defined as love? Can respect be a form of love? Can the qualities of love be defined as the fruit of the spirit that's found in the Bible?

    Maybe love isn't about the physical and everything about the spiritual. Maybe it's because some people might think that expressions of love are more physical, i.e., having sex, looking pretty, having lots of money--is what's got them confused.

    A friend can be a lover and a lover can be a friend. Maybe the problem with most relationships is that people have one without the other. Maybe the point to this whole conversation is to recognize that both are important (maybe not equally so) and that we should seek both qualities in the same individual.

    Whatcha think? :)
     
  9. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Love is Manipulated

    Queen, IMHO...if we didn't choose who or what to love and if we believed that love is a mysterious energy that flows between two people, then I would ask, would it be necessary for us to set criterias for finding our mate? If this energy determines who we love and we have no choice in the matter or control over it, I would think that marriages and relationships would be a lot more healthier than what they appear to be in the love department because it would occur without human intervention (we know how we can screw things up :D)

    I strongly feel that love cannot be defined. Each person has their own definition of what they think it is. I see a problem when we try to dictate what love is for someone else. I said earlier that "we want to define it for others based on the definition we have for ourselves...it doesn't work that way...it was meant to be different."

    If we have to have a "list" of what we want in a person to love that person or define love in abstracts, then I do believe that what we are doing are making choices of who or what to love.

    Hope I didn't introduce more confusion :)
     
  10. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Me? Confuzed? *lol*

    ZG, now you know you were confuzing a sister when you wrote that! *lol* I seem to be having problems with this system because I had crafted a detailed response to you and when I hit the reply button, it came up MIA! *Aarrrgggh!!* I'll try to recapture most of what I wrote in the first attempt. I would suggest that we might be agreeing on a deeper level than we might think.

    I will concede that it might be possible for people to make choices about love relationships. How they turn out is another discussion. But I want to add to that thought by saying that I think that most people choose who they want to be WITH as opposed to who to LOVE.

    Is it possible to shop for love like we do for a car or a house? Can you meet a person, get to know them and say, this is the person that I want to love or do we say this is the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with? We don't FALL in love do we? I like to think that we grow to love, but how is that choosing? See, that's how you keep me confused! *lol*

    Isn't love an evolutionary result of a set of biological, physiological and spiritual events that are beyond our control? Does man have control of or the power to manipulate everything around him in the physical world?

    Metaphysically, I believe that we attract things/people to us by what we say and what we pray for. People are energy and we operate according to the laws of the universe with the capacity to attract and repel other energy sources. Love is a source of energy so I don't believe there's anything mysterious about it.

    I don't think that love can be reduced to a simple choice alone without something else mixed in the formula. Can love happen when the criteria used as benchmarks are shallow and superficial: how a person dresses, how much money they make, even things they say to us that sound good. I guess it can since some of us don't think that love can be defined because it will differ from person to person.

    So for me, the love I want to experience has to use a totally different set of criteria than the "shallow" qualities I just described. They're shallow to me but may not be for someone else.

    As we all know too well, these are just physical or external trappings because people have the capability of wearing disguises and telling lies and if they're good at it we can attract them to us and eventually become a casualty to love. Looking with our two eyes is not enough, we need that third eye to protect us--that whole metaphysical experience. Too many of us are blind in our third eye--the one that among other things, helps us to recognize our "soul"-mate.

    Okay, now I think I've taken this conversation to a whole new level and I've written far too much. *lol* Whew, now a sista needs to go take a nap!

    All of this is IMHO :toast:
     
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