Black Spirituality Religion : Fornication...

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by soulful03, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. soulful03

    soulful03 Member MEMBER

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    I've always known, based on the bible that fornication (sex before marriage) is sinful, but I've been told it's ok as long as the two involved are going to get married. I have found no where in the bible that this true. Does anyone know any scriptures that says this? :confused:
     
  2. SwtT

    SwtT Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    nope, I think that the Bible says that sex before marriage is just WRONG!...no exceptions
     
  3. ifasehun

    ifasehun Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    why is it important what the Bible says? Africans dont live by the Bible. We live by African standards. Perhaps you should align yourself with a west african tradition and then discover what it says on the issue.
     
  4. soulful03

    soulful03 Member MEMBER

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    so what does one of the many west african traditions say ifasehun? please, enlighten me
     
  5. ifasehun

    ifasehun Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i know what the one that i practice says for me. my point is that maybe you want to do the research for yourself...heck, maybe you dont even care what your west african ancestors said on the topic. who knows..

    i know my answer wont be worth much. but the answer you pursue on your own will be invaluable.

    in any case, i dont think it matters what the Bible says, as its a poor excuse for a spiritual doctrine and clearly corrupted after years of misuse and political agenda.
     
  6. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is an interesting subject. The concept of marriage, in most cultures is more ceremonial than a legalistic bound before god and man. I don’t mean that this shouldn’t be a ritual of spiritual and social importance, but it didn’t hold the same sort of immoral versus moral sexuality judgments, as it has in Aryan Indo-European culture (i.e. Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Persians and Hindus, etc.). Remember these cultures had a dislike for anything feminine, be it the woman’s body, mind or soul. Their problems were more with femininity than it was with sex. Matter of fact the marriage contract, until recently, described marrying women as chattel (property/slave) rather than an equal partner (AND THIS WAS CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE!). The early church fathers believed that sex was a necessary evil, and women who enjoyed it, even within marriage, were sinning (THIS MEANT NO ORGASMS!); even Paul, the apostle said, it was better not to marry. He was first and foremost directing this statement to male congregants of the Christian church. These teachings of Paul reinforced the ideal of a celibate priesthood that predated the church, for this practice already existed in pre-Christian European paganism and virgins had more to do with sacrifices and temple orgies, than Christian spirituality. In some pagan traditions if the temple virgin had sex with the presiding priest she was still considered a virgin, for she had not copulated with an everyday mortal man and you know the priest was gods representative.

    I can go on and on about the misconceptions of sex and marriage in a historical and cultural context. But, you need to make a thorough analysis of the traditional concepts given to you, and the contradictions. I find it interesting that the same Christian slave master who preached these ideals, could sleep with and even rape African women, and still felt he had broke no moral Christian code. You should read or peruse the book Yurugu – written by Marimba Ani (a sister!) so that you can understand that defining African sexuality and communal living, i.e. marriage, through European ideals, laws and definitions (i.e. what’s moral, what’s ethical, fornication, adultery and so on) has been disastrous to African people worldwide. The same Euro-Christo culture that supposedly upholds marriage sanctity, wouldn’t allows us to marry for 400 hundred years. There is not always a right and wrong when it comes to culture, religion and lifestyle when viewed in a broad and historical perspective, but you must study; for the creative art of sex and soul mating are the core of our existence.

    From male/female union, to family, to village, to tribe, to nation, to hopefully sacred people-hood.

    LIVE LONG!
     
  7. DreamFunk

    DreamFunk Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ....this is 'True' if you understand what sin is...Sin literally means "to miss the mark".....in the case of Scripture, sin is the transgression of the Torah/Law (which are instructions for mankind to live long, happy, prosperous, and healthy lives)....our parents set rules and regulations for us (usually for our own benifit)....and if we 'missed the mark' they set, we sinned against them, and usually that sin resulted in negative consequenses.....

    ....all Laws from the Wise/'Bible' have meaning and purpose, they are not in vain....they all have reason....be it reasons of health, order, happiness, or whatever....


    ....but getting to Scripture....yes, it is "OK" just as long as you get married and the fornicating man pays 'homage' to the womans father....Im not justifing pre-marratal sex, but a more appropriate expression is "to make it right", or whatnot....

    Exodus 22:16-17
    And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

    ....this particular Law is one for order in a society, it also stops the drama that both the present parties, and the future parties may have....but if you heed to the Words, there will be no future parties....

    ....'Baby-Mama drama' and STDs are the main negative consequences of not living up to the standards of the Torah.....because our views on sin, heaven, and hell are distorted, we remain content in our hellish lives that we live in....we think we are so "blessed", but in reality we live in the hell of our non-acceptance of Wisdom.....
     
  8. NITAINO75

    NITAINO75 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Can you quote some of these "Church fathers"?

    That would be in direct contradiction to "be fruitful and multiply".

    "Fruitful" in this sense is a good thing, not an "necessary evil".

    Can you quote some of these "Church fathers"?



    That would be contradicting "it is not good that man should be alone". Perhaps there is confusion as to what Paul ment by those words??


    There are people then and now who call themselves Christian, Muslim, African Traditional Spiritualist, Buddhist, etc, but it doesn't mean that they are these things, when they break the very laws contained within their doctrine, and are contradictory in their morals.


    To answer the question, sex is marriage according to the Bible. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. The celebration of their union took place soon after.

    Peace!
     
  9. EVE

    EVE Banned MEMBER

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    One of the biggest reasons fornifaction is a Biblical sin is because of this... When a man sleeps with a virgin, and breaks her hyman, he just made a *Blood Covenant* with her. The purpose of the blood covenant is to bind two individuals, families, or tribes together. The covenant was cut in blood to demonstrate that it was to be an everlasting covenant. The life or spirit of a man, according to the scriptures, is said to be in the persons blood itself.





    (Deu 12:23 KJV)

    Only be sure that thou eat not the blood:
    for the blood is the life;
    and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.




    Fornication leads to many broken covenants.Think about this. every time you *sleep* with someone, your actually making a covenant with that person.
     
  10. NITAINO75

    NITAINO75 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace EVE

    I once heard someone describe that as being a "soul tie", or "soul ties".


    PEACE
     
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