Black Spirituality Religion : Finding God in Nature

skuderjaymes

Contextualizer Synthesizer
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Nov 2, 2009
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I am genuinely interested in knowing and how we come to know. Spirituality and religion make calms about knowing. I don’t see any conflict with questioning how we come to know. This then is the perfect place to be if you are interested in knowing and want to know.
Take your statement that I will never find god in language and definition. How do you come to know this is true and is your way of knowing reliable? These are all questions we can ask and test.

Thank you for your warm welcome.


Peace LMagere,

communicate the taste of an orange to me in language. communicate the sensation of the sun against your face in Kenya... communicate to me the smell of a rose.. or the sound of the wind.

And if language can't do those simple things, why then would we expect langauge to be able to articulate the wonders of creation.. of God.. of the universe?

It is only our arrogance as a species that makes us believe their to be some connection between our words and the universe.

Language is limited. And anyone that seeks to see and understand the universe exclusively through human langauge will only see what is possible within the limits of language.

I've come to know this through living, observing, thinking and writing. Is it true and reliable? Yes, for me, it is thoroughly reliable and true,for it is my truth.. meaning.. the truth I've come to see over the course of my life. What you see, is what you see.. and context is everything.

peace again.
 

LMagere

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Jun 15, 2013
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The purpose of language is as far as I know is for communication. You say one of the ways you come to know is though writing which is a form of communication. I venture to say a lot of what you know comes though communication more then just by what you see. There is a lot about the universe you know yet are unable to observe with your own eyes.
I don’t understand what you mean when you say it’s arrogant to believe there is a connection between the universe and the world. Our world is in the only universe we know.
We all experience the sun differently but it’s the same sun. I may not be able to communicate to you just what the sun feels like to me when I’m in Kenya, but all this would show is you find my method of communication inadequate.

It may be that all you want to know about the world is through what you can observe and that’s fine. I doubt that this is true about you at all. I’m sure from time to time you ask, what’s the weather like over there, or what does that taste like? There is also the problem is atomic particles or do you deny there existence?
 

skuderjaymes

Contextualizer Synthesizer
REGISTERED MEMBER
Nov 2, 2009
8,801
5,869
theory to application to discussion to percussion
Occupation
independent thoughtist thinker, context linker
The purpose of language is as far as I know is for communication. You say one of the ways you come to know is though writing which is a form of communication. I venture to say a lot of what you know comes though communication more then just by what you see. There is a lot about the universe you know yet are unable to observe with your own eyes.
I don’t understand what you mean when you say it’s arrogant to believe there is a connection between the universe and the world. Our world is in the only universe we know.
We all experience the sun differently but it’s the same sun. I may not be able to communicate to you just what the sun feels like to me when I’m in Kenya, but all this would show is you find my method of communication inadequate.

It may be that all you want to know about the world is through what you can observe and that’s fine. I doubt that this is true about you at all. I’m sure from time to time you ask, what’s the weather like over there, or what does that taste like? There is also the problem is atomic particles or do you deny there existence?


Peace LMagere,

I said "It is only our arrogance as a species that makes us believe their to be some connection between our words and the universe", not "our world" and the universe".

no worries though.. it happens here alot.. it's another one of the limitations of writing. A single letter can completely change meaning. That said, please reconsider my post with the correction.

and just to summarize:

My point was about the disability of language to communicate the simplest of our experiences in the universe. meaning.. that if language cannot communicate such fundamental elements of experience, then how can anyone expect language to communicate the highest reaches of creation?... of God.. of the Universe?

And all of that was to illustrate how language, as a tool, limits perception.

and.. all of that speaks to your point about proving the existence of god.. and the hoovering subtext that seeks to squeeze the universe into the limited confines of what can be explained through the conventions of science.

It's important to remember what today's science actually is: Science is man's systematic attempt of describing the universe for the purposes of understanding the way the fundamental elements of the universe work.. for the purpose of manipulating those elements to his advantage.. and in his perpetual search for certainty.. for assurance.. for stability.

Farming is a good example of that. Man has over centuries investigated the interplay between the elements that result in the growth and development of eatible plant life. And man has used what he has learned to bring about consistent and reliable sources of food. That is practical science in a nutshell.

But how does observing and naming natural phenomena.. which is what science is... negate God?

And I'm not really arguing it one way or the other.. I just see it as a matter of context.. and the context of God is.. for me.. much larger than.. what I would call.. the limited description of the known universe that we know as "Science".. (limited both by the scope and functionality of the tools.. ie.. language.. and also perceptual and resulting conceptual limits of interpreting the universe through language).

If I as you to draw rainbow in the sand with a stick, you could do it, but their will be alot lost in that representation of a rainbow. It wont matter how much you embelish it.. or how impressive it is.. or what you are able to extrapolate from the principles represented in it.. that representation is limited.. and so too are any results. And anyone depending on that representation to understand rainbows will have a limited understanding as well.

And that is fine.. as long as you don't trot the earth and tell everyone else that your system is the only acceptible way by which to view and understand the universe.. and force them.. under the threat of anhililation over to your way of seeing/thinking/dreaming/being.

There is a context larger than the practicals of science. And it's only the arrogance of man that pits what he knows.. which.. as I illustrated in the farming example.. is practical in nature.. against all that can be known.. then declare himself.. and his methods.. the winner.

You ask for reliabilty.. for assurance.. for certainty.. all practical things from a practical mind.. educated in a practical method.. that would seek to invalidate anyconception outside the scope of it's own methods. Like a fisherman that denies the existence of fish outside of the range of his pole and line.

And all I'm saying to you is: there is a larger context.. and larger scope.. and other ways of seeing.. and being.. and understanding.. and it would be a shame to throw them all away for not fitting within a single way.

Notice how that is roughly the same thing a Scientist might say to a Christian/Muslim.
And quiet as it's kept, that is because both Religion and Science can be fit into a larger context of modern man's perpetual search for certainty.. reliability.. assurance.. control.

- peace again.


Context is everything.
 

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