Black Spirituality Religion : EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO DIES FOR SINS

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Afru Shukuwr, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. Afru Shukuwr

    Afru Shukuwr Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It would have to be a highly spiritual person who messed up. And God said if he messed up how could I expect other people to come through also. Well he was highly spiritual but by no means the best and obviously he would have to change sides to so profoundly go against God's orders and die purposely rather than teach the word and take names on whos not and whos coming with me.
    So its a story that maybe true with alot of Jesus's throughout time. So there you have it I took what the Christians believed and showed that even their own story works against them. But anybody can switch it around and get whatever they want to get out of it.
     
  2. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Lord protect His devotees

    Veda says that every body carries on the good and bad results along with them (Priyaa priye…). At the same time Veda says that God is removing the sins of the deserving devotee (Ubhe punya pape, Apahatapapma etc.). Gita also says that one has to enjoy the good and bad results of the wheel of deeds (Tetvagham….tetambhuktva….).

    At the same time the Lord says that He protects His devotees (Yoga kshemam…). God is the judge, who has delivered these results based on His own constitution. How can He violate His own judgment even in the case of a deserving devotee? Judgment is Universal but devotion is personal. This needs link of interpretation. Krishna wanted to give all His wealth to Kuchela and transfer His poverty to Him self. In the incarnations of Datta this tradition is very clear in the experience. As a judge He fines His son and as father He pays the fine. The constitution is not violated and at the same time the devotee is saved. Jesus is another best example of this tradition.

    Gayatri asked that why Krishna, the Lord, could not repeat Gita when Arjuna asked again. She said that a chemistry lecturer can teach chemistry at any time. This point can be correct provided God is in the inet human body like the lecturer (Jeevatma) present in his inert human body. In the case of Krishna, God is present in the human body which is a composite of the three bodies (causal, subtle and gross). The subtle and causal bodies together are called as Jeevatma and the gross body is the inert house.

    In the case of the chemistry lecturer, he is just a composite of these three bodies i.e., Jeevatma present in the inert gross body. The chemistry is in the Jeevatma of the chemistry lecturer. In the case of Krishna, God spoke Bagavat Gita and Krishna spoke AnuGita. All the knowledge taught by Sandeepa is present in Krishna, who spoke Anugita. But Bhagavat Gita came directly from God and God never requires any knowledge from any teacher. Thus, a double personality exists and therefore it is said “God in flesh”.

    God speaks as a speaker and He does not require any aid. But if God speaks directly, people will get tension due to excitation by observation of the super power. Then knowledge is not grasped. To keep them in ground state, God speaks directly from human body and people approach without tension thinking that the human body is speaking. If God enters the inert body only, it is as good as entering an inert statue. Speaking through statue will again raise the tension. When God enters the human body He needs the Jeevatman also, which possesses all the qualities for His play. God need not use His special power for a work, when it can be done by the medium itself. Arjuna was retaining a little egoism and therefore the concept of the exhibition of such double personality is needed. Such analysis will pacify the egoism because God and Krishna are different. For higher level devotees like Gopikas there is no difference between Krishna and God.
     
  3. Goddess Auset333

    Goddess Auset333 Banned MEMBER

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    Correct me Scholars:

    Anyone who continues to refer to God as a He, and not the Energy, Power, and Divine Spirit IT IS, I would be leary of listening too, because to refer to God as a He is misleading.

    THERE IS NOTHING HUMAN ABOUT GOD.

    ITS (God)Energy, Power, and Divine Spirit resides in the She/He.

    Anyone who continues to refer to God as A HE does not Know What God Is.

    :qqb018: :qqb018: :qqb018:
     
  4. Zacharias

    Zacharias Banned MEMBER

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    g-a


    You God sound like the christian Trinity [ Energy, Power, and Divine Spirit ]
     
  5. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

    Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.

    For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe. It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy.

    Energy is always active. Action is the characteristic of Rajas. Such Spirit is unaware of its own creator who is the God. Therefore, it is having ignorance or Tamas. Thus, the Knowledge itself is action and ignorance. According to Gita Knowledge is Sattvam (Sattvaat Sanjayate Jnanam), action is Rajas (Rajah Karmani) and Ignorance is Tamas (Tamastva Jnanajam). Thus these three qualities are always inseparable. The pure knowledge (Suddha Sattvam) itself is pure action (Suddha Rajas), which is the pure ignorance (Suddha Tamas). Thus in the very first instant itself the three qualities are created simultaneously in the purest state. Since all these three co-exist, it is called as equilibrium of the three qualities. When the equilibrium is disturbed various items of awareness result in which the three qualities exist in various proportions. Such disturbance of the equilibrium resulting in various distorted items of the three qualities is the very creation. The various mixtures of these three qualities constitute this diversified universe, which is meant for the play of the God and for His entertainment. When the entertainment is over all the three qualities go into the equilibrium state. Thus the Universe is converted into Mula Prakruti.
     
  6. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

    God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam… Veda).
     
  7. Afru Shukuwr

    Afru Shukuwr Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Obviously Judas was the one that may have died for sins for whatever reason but didnt rise on the third day. I suspect that he died for sins but for the wrong reasons. He was not ordered to do so or got caught in a mess he couldnt get out of.
     
  8. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Betrayal of Judas

    Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities. Let us examine the scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide. The latter part of punishment was advised by Lord Jesus Himself. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire.

    If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire. Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi).

    Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, the scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.

    If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of the scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.
     
  9. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Nope, not anybody can switch it around, nor have you shown the truth to work against those who believe in it.

    It wouldn't have to be someone who's highly spiritual but has messed up, because being there are many people like that, as you state, there's nothing standing out whereas the Father would grant favor to them.

    This is why we must have faith and belief in His Son, and pray in His Name, if we seek justification, because only through One who is perfect, sitting at His right hand, would He grant such a pardon for. We have nothing to our own name that would gain us such, and would wipe away all iniquity we've committed beforehand.

    What we have to understand is that, the Most High doesn't need us, but does have a want for His children, so out of mercy has He sent His perfect Son to die for our sins, and be resurrected from the belly of the earth the 3rd day. Mercy, love, and compassion. If He didn't want to shower us in such, He could just destroy us all for being so wicked, and start all over, or never create another earth or being again, seeing that He's been for all eternity, anyway.
     
  10. Kemetstry

    Kemetstry going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Perhaps you need to read the scripture a lot more





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