Black Spirituality Religion : Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Greatest I am, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Banned MEMBER

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    Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?


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    “Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.”

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    From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged.

    “What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they **** him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.

    Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.”


    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Gen 3;22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;


    Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?


    Regards

    DL
     
  2. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Welcome to Destee.com, Greatest I am ... Even though I don't normally talk with snakes(your avatar), I'll answer a couple of your posts, nonetheless.


    "Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?"


    In your argument, one salient point is overlooked, and that is, no one wants to die. In fact, neither were we going to have to die, until that sin was committed. So, from my view point, it's a sin and not a virtue.

    ...

     
  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Banned MEMBER

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    Oh my. What is wrong with my avatar?

    Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

    Genesis 3 ;3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

    The bible seems to respect the serpent more than you do. Oh well.

    To your last.
    You have swallowed the supernatural and fantasy aspects of this myth so I am not surprised that you would see it as a sin.

    You should wonder though why A & E would ignore eternal life without the knowledge of good and evil, which is basically the knowledge of everything as everything is subject to good and evil.

    Life being as bright as a brick and too stupid to reproduce, all should shun.

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    On snakes, serpents and your avatar:


    Genesis 3:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain


    Personally, I don't follow John Galt, as closely as you, and, as you cited below:


    "From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged"


    Talking about fantasy aspects :facepalm:



    Atlas Shrugged Book Club, Entry 7: The Impotent Irrationality of John Galt

    In the final, climactic part of Ayn Rand's novel, the mysterious John Galt gives his big speech. But is it revelatory or ridiculous?


    .
    .. The crux of the Atlas Shrugged, the core of Rand's project, is John Galt's famous 60-page speech (roughly double the length of The Communist Manifesto), which can be regarded as a philosophy lecture or Objectivist sermon or Randian rant, depending on your point of view. In it, Galt presents his rationale for the strike -- a removal of sanction from the inverted morality of the "mystics" -- and his call to those to withdraw their support from the system, to join the strike themselves.

    He thus ushers in the novel's Götterdämmerung ...

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...e-impotent-irrationality-of-john-galt/274273/

    ...



     
  5. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Assuredly, this will have absolutely no meaning to you, but, gods is spelled with a small ... g ..., got it?



    Psalm 82:6King James Version (KJV)
    6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain


    ...
     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    After trying incessantly, one word above throws me off, use of the word ... ignore.

    Please help me see exactly what you are saying in that statement.

    ...

     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Banned MEMBER

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    People are always saying that A & E chose the tree of knowledge and they did. The tree of life was always there yet they chose to ignore eternal life for a life with knowledge in it even if it was just going to be a short one.

    You will note that elsewhere in scriptures, that when they use the term tree of life, they just mean a good life. They do not think in terms of eternal life. Even then, most of us would choose a short life with knowledge.

    Only those lost to fantasy and the supernatural will think that humans, just the best animal on earth, would ever live forever.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here's where you get off script and are wrong, they were told not to eat from that tree of knowledge, while having access to the tree of life, all along. You proclaim they had choices without instructions.

    Also, the tree of life, in the garden, bared 12 different fruits a month, every month. So, not only would eating from that tree allow them to eat and live forever on earth, but it had to be block because of their newly acquired, sinful condition.

    Please keep this in mind, folk today are trying to live longer by following a healthy diet. But without access to the tree of life, all fall short and must die ... again, no one that I know wants to die, this may not be the case for you though.

    ...

     
  9. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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  10. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ...

    Greatest I am, please consider changing that ugly avatar, Its hard for me to look at, as I explained already.



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