Black People : Dr. John Henrik Clarke - Debate With Cornell West: The Politics of Assimilation verses Nationalism

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by RAPTOR, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    6,889
    Likes Received:
    3,608
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,094
     
  2. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Always interesting to hear two great minds discussing alternating thesis on the dynamics of the politics and politricks of "African" survival in a globalization crazed system of networks, designed to destroy cultural diversities.

    Both points made by West on the broad reaching proclamation of "African tradition", and the "connective African bonds", show the well thought out balance from them, while not conflicting with each other.

    First time I saw this I remember thinking... West was just a curious brother asking an elder with rich life experiences, in genuine candor and not in the context of a debate.

    Are there any elders today that we would desire for them to sit down and allow us to inquire of them the wisdom or perspectives that they offer?
     
  3. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    13,481
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +2,528
    Yes, in a perfect would filled with like minded people, easy to accomplish elder brother Clarke's alleged or real agendas....

    But, I dare to contrast that with the real one, whereas today's role models are the likes of Lil' Wayne and Jaycee ad naseum, whose fantasy trips have to be contrasted with true life reality checks, wake up calls, etc.

    Such is why our black youth at risk have to cope and deal with, some knowing what the white haters are up to, some of whom also reveal their own self hatred, by going along to get along too, to advance their own dreams and schemes, as well...

    I. e., we are slow (if at all) to both be for real about why our ancestors got exiled to begin with, let alone to embrace our own uniqueness, ( as though we of al people are any less important/relevant/siginificant than the rest of black diaspora), more so high on the learning curve, in the era of transnational capitalism, etc.

    It was and is as much about how we respond to their latest b. s., wherever we wound up, by chance or by choice....

    As in to our peoples exploiters and oppressors....

    FYI
     
  4. Storymaster

    Storymaster Banned MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +25
    ...I'm from the South Bronx. An African, Caribbean, American. The rap generation started there as an honestly occurring and doable cultural event for free. It started with the MC's coming out with their huge Tower speakers and turntables and hooking up to the street lamps to produce a mass party.

    ...of course the Gangs and the roughnecks put a stop to that, but it was good while it lasted and it spawned a massively conforming music industry with revolutionary new ideas and genres to come. That is a credit to us regardless of how you feel about it, because it was the creation of
    "OURS EXCLUSIVELY" and it grew like wild fire to reach the world.

    ...Jay Z is worth over $500,00,000, Lil Wayne is worth $135 mil - his two proteges are more popular than him and Drake is worth $55 mil while Nikki Minaj is worth $50,000,000. Only Drake is really mainstream. Nikki has a few mainstream hits, but they are mainly underground Rappers where Jay Z is completely above ground and popular in the main Stream with most everything.

    These artists are arguably more popular and definitely more financially successful than some social / political advocates who are tagged with leadership. These artists contribute to the social political causes. jay Z and Beyonce can host fundraising events for Political Candidates and have done that on more than one occasion...That is POWER.

    ...I understand the criticism of Rap as violent and excessively sexual or low down. That label will be applied by some even if the accused are not guilty. That is because they are non conventional movers...they indulge the Party life for their networking...they use sex and Free Will / Free Enterprise as their forte. But they are entertainers who are creating and telling stories like any other artist, whether it's protest, action, drama, shoot'em up salacious image...whatever. That is what sells in America whether it's about crime, politics or history...it's all about drama to a large or very large extent.

    ...African Americans are disciples of this culture...we can't escape it. That is one of the most ignored or unsaid aspects of our struggle...we are split by indoctrination, by Racism, by self hate, by scape goat, but we are also divided by accomplishment. The have's and the have not's who have necessarily different objectives, goals, values and lifestyles.

    ...I bet that if a hard core Black Revolutionary, rap hating, down on Holly Wood type brother was invited to come and hang out with Lil Wayne or Jay Z, - full V.I.P. treatment just for a look?...it would change their lives and perspectives permanently. You need to see that other side. I have and now I REALLY know how much we don't have and the freedom and world reach that we do have when we are connected in that world of privilege.

    ...These artist are criticizeable like any one else, but they are doing things that are powerful that most of us can't even fathom! That's a good thing!
     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    31,999
    Likes Received:
    11,478
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired computer geek
    Location:
    north philly ghetto
    Ratings:
    +13,733
    :SuN026:we are here most days......
     
  6. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Elder vs. Older... these two understandably get conflated at times
     
  7. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    31,999
    Likes Received:
    11,478
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired computer geek
    Location:
    north philly ghetto
    Ratings:
    +13,733
    :11100:thank you for your support......
     
Loading...