Black People : Dr Henry Louis Gates says that Africans were 90% responsible for the slave trade

[Ken Taylor]

The above is disingenuous on a number of levels.

3.5 seconds ago you were referring to a Member's wife as a whore, prostitute, porn star, etc., but now you want to wax poetic regarding the virtues of discussing and debating without calling names, using labels, etc. ... really?

you absolutely know the rules, and to come to me talking about what someone else did, when you're getting fussed at ... (though you're not getting fussed at this time, you've simply inserted yourself in the middle of someone else's fuss'n) ... never having presented one report to me about someone violating the rules ... is well ... hogwash ... i aint hear'n it ... if you don't report the possible violation ... don't come crying to me later about what someone else did ... after i caught you wrong and am fussing at you ... 'cause i aint hear'n it.

If you want me to take you seriously regarding our higher standards, respectful discussion, etc., you're gonna hafta be operating from within the confines of them ... maintaining "clean hands" your own self ... or you don't have a leg to stand on with me.

So work on that ... getting your own debate prowess up to par ... and then maybe i can take you seriously.



Destee

I understand that if I don't report violations, I can't expect them to be dealt with. But, frankly, it happens so often here that I didn't even realize it was a violation of the rules to tell someone they are an Uncle Tom, Sell Out, or Uncle Ruckus...or any of the other advanced debate tactics used by those without a valid argument or evidence for their claims.

As for the "referring to a members wife" comment, I have agreed to disagree with you and being that it's your house, I disengaged and complied with your wishes. But, I asked a sincere question that a mature adult could answer without taking offense to....especially if they opened their marriage model up as a topic of discussion. He could have easily responded with something to the effect of "No, it's not like that at all. You have a misconception of how it works...It works like this...)

There is a big difference between labels being applied as a debate tactic of division or distraction and a sincere question directly focused at the issue raised for discussion. It's sad that you can't see that distinction.

The fact that I have never reported violations to you is a reflection of the fact that I'm simply not easily offended. Furthermore, it doesn't bother me that someone holds a view of me that I know is not true. You see this as a problem but let me assure you, this mentality have benefitted me greatly throughout my life. It goes in one ear and out the other because my focus is the matter that is relevant, not the diversion.

Kinda funny, but you remind me of my wife in dealing with our children. LOL I'll give you an example from yesterday. When I got home I noticed that the foyer was a mess. I called my son, whose choir it is to keep that area clean. He got off the computer and came to me. I asked, "Son, why aren't your choirs done?" He responded with some lame excuse. I told him to get it clean and I would deal with him once I got settled in. As I was settling in, one of my other sons came to me. He said, "Dad, I told mom that he hadn't done his choirs and that you would be home soon." I said, "Really, so what happened?" He said, "She jumped on me and claimed that I just wanted him off the computer so that I could get on and told me that I didn't do my choirs" She was right, it's likely he did have an ulterior motive and he didn't have all of his choirs done to the standard we require. But, she allowed the one who was on the computer to continue although she had been advised he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do. She never dealt with what was reported to her because the one reporting it was imperfect.

My point being...if you have a problem with what I'm saying here it is your right as the momma here to correct me. But, you shouldn't require me to be perfect before my valid points are taken seriously. If the point I make is valid, take it as such. If it's not, reject it.

 

[Destee]

I understand that if I don't report violations, I can't expect them to be dealt with. But, frankly, it happens so often here that I didn't even realize it was a violation of the rules to tell someone they are an Uncle Tom, Sell Out, or Uncle Ruckus...or any of the other advanced debate tactics used by those without a valid argument or evidence for their claims.

As for the "referring to a members wife" comment, I have agreed to disagree with you and being that it's your house, I disengaged and complied with your wishes. But, I asked a sincere question that a mature adult could answer without taking offense to....especially if they opened their marriage model up as a topic of discussion. He could have easily responded with something to the effect of "No, it's not like that at all. You have a misconception of how it works...It works like this...)

There is a big difference between labels being applied as a debate tactic of division or distraction and a sincere question directly focused at the issue raised for discussion. It's sad that you can't see that distinction.

The fact that I have never reported violations to you is a reflection of the fact that I'm simply not easily offended. Furthermore, it doesn't bother me that someone holds a view of me that I know is not true. You see this as a problem but let me assure you, this mentality have benefitted me greatly throughout my life. It goes in one ear and out the other because my focus is the matter that is relevant, not the diversion.

Kinda funny, but you remind me of my wife in dealing with our children. LOL I'll give you an example from yesterday. When I got home I noticed that the foyer was a mess. I called my son, whose choir it is to keep that area clean. He got off the computer and came to me. I asked, "Son, why aren't your choirs done?" He responded with some lame excuse. I told him to get it clean and I would deal with him once I got settled in. As I was settling in, one of my other sons came to me. He said, "Dad, I told mom that he hadn't done his choirs and that you would be home soon." I said, "Really, so what happened?" He said, "She jumped on me and claimed that I just wanted him off the computer so that I could get on and told me that I didn't do my choirs" She was right, it's likely he did have an ulterior motive and he didn't have all of his choirs done to the standard we require. But, she allowed the one who was on the computer to continue although she had been advised he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do. She never dealt with what was reported to her because the one reporting it was imperfect.

My point being...if you have a problem with what I'm saying here it is your right as the momma here to correct me. But, you shouldn't require me to be perfect before my valid points are taken seriously. If the point I make is valid, take it as such. If it's not, reject it.

I'm not going to continue this ... because you're absolutely disingenuous.

You know that name calling is not allowed here, you've been banned for it your own self.

Others have been warned / suspended / banned for doing it to you as well.

I'm reluctant to say you're lying, because it makes no sense, when i can easily disprove it.

But since you insist on continuing in this vein ... you are lying ... and here's the proof:

http://destee.com/index.php?threads/brother-hellogood.60821/#post-626618

http://destee.com/index.php?threads/brother-excel10k.56243/page-8#post-575558

That's 2 examples, and there are many more where this rule has been pointed out to you.

Until you get your discussion skills to a higher level ... sans the blatant lies ... don't talk to me.

Thanks.



Destee

 

[Changes_Changes]

Chuck the other day posted a link to an essay about the Senagalese filmmaker, Ousmane Sembène. I'd never heard of Sembène, but searched for his films after seeing Chuck's thread, and ended up watching his 1977 movie, Ceddo.

The movie's about an uproar amongst the nobility and commoners in a quasihistorical Wolof kingdom after the king declares Islam the state religion. Sembène is a master filmmaker, and the film is drenched with primers on Wolof statecraft, ontology, philosophy, and histories. It lays bare the reductionism in Gates's op-ed, and effectively illustrates how arguments peddled by Gates and some commenters in this thread are based in a shallow, simplistic command of the histories being discussed.

Importantly, the Wolof Empire was far more heavily involved in kidnap than most other major African states of the day. Yet even in Sembène's encapsulation, we see that kidnap and forced labor were subjects of major controversy. Childish statements like, 'Africans were responsible for the slave trade' completely elide such details; they pathologize all African men and women, something Gates seems to delight in; they have the relative effect of absolving the European and Middle Eastern invaders of their criminality, or at best dismissing it; and they throw fuel on fires lit by our enemies to attack African interests.

Here's the movie uploaded at youtube. Make sure to enable closed caption for English subtitles.

 

[Orisons]

James, suppose what he said is truth? Rather someone would say such a thing is not an issue. The issue is rather such a thing is true. The same is the case with Gates.

Even if you don't like him, the accuracy or inaccuracy of his statement is the only thing that matters. Everyone you like is not always accurate nor is everyone you don't like always wrong. IMO, if these issues are going to be discussed, the only thing that matters is rather what's said is true or not.

Or could it be that YOU genuinely are so infantile, completely naive or just hoping that we are, or is there another reason why you haven’t addressed/answered the questions below?

Two things. I find it interesting and quite telling that no one who opposed Mr. Gates statement made any attempt to prove it to be false, but only made unsubstantiated assumptions about his motives. I care about truth and truth alone, be it pleasant to hear or troubling.

Are you genuinely this naive or just totally unaware of the FACT that despite paying China over $50 billion in reparations for the 11 million Chinese the Japanese armed forces slaughtered between 1930-45; any Japanese school teacher who tries to teach the so easily verifiable facts with regard to the brutal human rights violations committed by the Japanese Armed forces is immediately fired?

Comparing Japan’s position today to that of the African collective [who truly need both the technical skills and finance wealthy African American can provide] who totally failed to avoid chattel Slavery and the European Colonialism it evolved into; shouldn’t WE be the ones most focused on protecting our people’s individual/collective self esteem with regard to past mistakes as opposed to [Boulé AUTOMATON/CLOWNS like Mr Gates undermining us even further] easily the biggest non-white WINNERS [Japan] of the past 500 years?

Isn’t ANYONE who genuinely believes they are not programmed ​

graphically illustrating that their programming is COMPLETE?​

 

[jamesfrmphilly]

​