Black People : Dr. Frank Wilderson on Nelson Mandela, South Africa and Afro-Pessimism

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by RAPTOR, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  2. Alarm Clock

    Alarm Clock Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    was a little confusing and how can any one discuss any economic systme at all in South Africa, an African created system as Dr Clarke sugfessted or the White man's; capitalism socialism or communism, if the South Africans never had a national fight for liberation! They only wanted integration, which they tried to dress it up by calling it "An end to aparthied"
     
  3. sekou kasimu

    sekou kasimu PanAfrikanist Revolutionary MEMBER

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  4. sekou kasimu

    sekou kasimu PanAfrikanist Revolutionary MEMBER

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    The integrationist reformers led by nelson mandela (anc) wanted integration. The masses of Afrikans led by Revolutionary Robert Sebuke (PAC) wanted their land back! :mad:
     
  5. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That is unfortunate you seemed to be unable to filter out the "laughing and joking".

    Dr. wilderson yields a lot of good information.

    Are you Familiar chris hani?
     
  6. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    After he either refused to talk about German genocide and bestial behavior in Namibia or wasn't aware of the history of Namibia, I lost interest.
     
  7. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Or maybe, they wanted to discuss mandela, s.africa and what he believes to be "afro-pessimism".

    However, I find you to be quite knowledgeable so please expand on german atrocities and nambia.
     
  8. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    Thank you. Give me a minute (I'm sighing as the headache creeps in). It's pretty bad.

    hint: think about it. Adolph Hitler-era Germans with power over black people..... **sigh**


    Later. I promise.


    P.S.
    Those thoughts keep 'filtering' in - think Dr. Mengele in the concentration camps.....
     
  9. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks for sharing. I'm over my data limit so I will get back to this next weekend.

    The assassination of Chris Hani failed to result in a race war which the white nationalists hoped would derail the negotiated peace settlement.
     
  10. Kadijah

    Kadijah Banned MEMBER

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    The following is only about HALF of the article. What the Germans did to black Namibians, was the blueprint for what they did to Jews of the Holocaust. Btw, if you think this is sickening, read the "details" I left out (Wikipedia):

    Herero and Namaqua Genocide
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Herero and Namaqua Genocide is considered to have been the first genocide of the 20th century.[1][2][3][4][5] It took place between 1904 and 1907 in German South-West Africa (modern day Namibia), during the Herero Wars.

    In total, from 24,000 up to 100,000 Herero and 10,000 Nama died.[6][7][8][9][10] The genocide was characterised by widespread death by starvation and thirst because the Herero who fled the violence were prevented from returning from the Namib Desert. Some sources also claim that the German colonial army systematically poisoned desert wells.[11][12]

    Genocide

    General Trotha stated his proposed solution to end the resistance of the Herero people in a letter, before the Battle of Waterberg:[42]
    “ "I believe that the nation as such should be annihilated, or, if this was not possible by tactical measures, have to be expelled from the country...This will be possible if the water-holes from Grootfontein to Gobabis are occupied. The constant movement of our troops will enable us to find the small groups of nation who have moved backwards and destroy them gradually." ”

    The pursuing German forces prevented groups of Herero from breaking from the main body of the fleeing force and pushed them further into the desert, and as exhausted Herero fell to the ground unable to go on, German soldiers acting on orders killed men, women and children.[43] Jan Cloete, acting as a guide for the Germans, witnessed the atrocities committed by the German troops and deposed the following statement:[44]
    “ "I was present when the Herero were defeated in a battle in the vicinity of Waterberg. After the battle all men, women, and children who fell into German hands, wounded or otherwise, were mercilessly put to death. Then the Germans set off in pursuit of the rest, and all those found by the wayside and in the sandveld were shot down and bayoneted to death. The mass of the Herero men were unarmed and thus unable to offer resistance. They were just trying to get away with their cattle." ”

    Trotha gave orders that captured Herero males were to be executed, while women and children were to be driven into the desert where their death from starvation and thirst was to be certain; Trotha argued that there was no need to make exceptions for Herero women and children, since these would "infect German troops with their diseases", the insurrection Trotha explained "is and remains the beginning of a racial struggle".[39] German soldiers regularly raped young Herero women before killing them or letting them die in the desert

    Upon the arrival of new orders at the end of 1904, prisoners were herded into concentration camps and given by the German state to private companies as slave labourers, and exploited as human guinea pigs in medical experiments

    Concentration camps

    Survivors, majority of whom were women and children, were eventually put in concentration camps, such as that at Shark Island, where the German authorities forced them to work as slave labour for German military and settlers, all prisoners were categorised into groups fit and unfit for work, and pre-printed death certificates indicating "death by exhaustion following privation" were issued.[64] The British government published their well-known account of the German genocide of the Nama and Herero peoples in 1918.[65]
    Many Herero died later of disease, overwork and malnutrition.[66][67] Camps, such as that in Windhoek, showed mortality rates as high as 61%[68] The mortality rate in the camps reached 45% in 1908.[69] The death rates are calculated at between 69 and 74%.[70]

    Food in the camps was extremely scarce, consisting of rice with no additions.[71] As the prisoners lacked pots, the rice they received was uncooked and indigestible; horses and oxen that died in the camp were later distributed to the inmates as food.[72] As a result dysentery spread, in addition to lung diseases,[73] despite those conditions the Herero were taken outside the camp every day for labour under harsh treatment by the German guards, while the sick were left without any medical assistance or nursing care.[73]

    Shootings, hangings and beatings were common,[74] and the sjambok was used by guards who treated the forced labourers harshly;[73] a 28 September 1905, article in the South African newspaper Cape Argus detailed some of the abuse, with the heading: "In German S. W. Africa: Further Startling Allegations: Horrible Cruelty". In an interview with Percival Griffith, "an accountant of profession, who owing to hard times, took up on transport work at Angra Pequena, Lüderitz", related his experiences.
    “ "There are hundreds of them, mostly women and children and a few old men ... when they fall they are sjamboked by the soldiers in charge of the gang, with full force, until they get up ... On one occasion I saw a woman carrying a child of under a year old slung at her back, and with a heavy sack of grain on her head ... she fell. The corporal sjamboked her for certainly more than four minutes and sjamboked the baby as well ... the woman struggled slowly to her feet, and went on with her load. She did not utter a sound the whole time, but the baby cried very hard."[75] ”

    The extermination camp on Shark Island, in the coastal town of Lüderitz, was the worst of the German South West African camps.[76] Think Auschwitz
    Benjamin Madley argues that it would be more accurate to describe Shark Island not as a concentration camp or work camp, but as an extermination camp or death camp.

    Medical experiments

    Eugen Fischer, a German anthropologist, came to the concentration camps to conduct medical experiments on race,[78] using children of Herero people and mulatto children of Herero women and German men as test subjects.[78]
    An estimated 3,000 skulls were sent to Germany for experimentation. In October 2011, after 3 years of talks, the first skulls were due to be returned to Namibia for burial.[84]

    Other experiments were made by Dr Bofinger, who injected Herero that were suffering from scurvy with various substances including arsenic and opium; afterwards he researched the effects of these substances by performing autopsies on dead bodies[85]

    With the closure of concentration camps all surviving Herero were distributed as labourers for settlers in the German colony, and from that time on, all Herero over the age of seven were forced to wear a metal disc with their labour registration number, and banned from owning land or cattle, a necessity for pastoral society.[88]

    In 1985, the United Nations' Whitaker Report classified the massacres as an attempt to exterminate the Herero and Nama peoples of South-West Africa, and therefore one of the earliest cases of genocide in the 20th century

    According to Benjamin Madley, the German experience in South West Africa was a crucial precursor to Nazi colonialism and genocide. He argues that personal connections, literature, and public debates served as conduits for communicating colonialist and genocidal ideas and methods from the colony to Germany.[104] Tony Barta, honorary research associate[clarification needed] at La Trobe University Melbourne, argues that the Herero Genocide was an inspiration for Hitler in his war against the Jews.[105]

    According to Clarence Lusane, Eugen Fischer's medical experiments can be seen as a testing ground for later medical procedures used during the Nazi Holocaust. Fischer later became chancellor of the University of Berlin, where he taught medicine to Nazi physicians.[78] One of his prominent students was Josef Mengele, the doctor who performed genetic experiments on Jewish children at the Auschwitz concentration camp.] Ben Kiernan, the director of the Genocide Studies Programme at Yale University, pointed out that Eugen Fischer was not the only person who took part in both genocides. Franz Ritter von Epp, who was later responsible for the liquidation of all Bavarian Jews and Roma[dubious – discuss] as governor of Bavaria, took part in the Herero genocide as well.[107]
     
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