Black Spirituality Religion : Don't Blame Religion

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Dual Karnayn, Nov 5, 2005.

  1. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ...for the world's problems.

    Rather we should blame those who CLAIM a religion yet still do wicked deeds even if it contradicts what they profess to believe.

    Murder is muder.
    Theft is theft.
    Rape is rape.

    ...regardless if it was done by a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheists, or Communist.

    No group on this planet can claim to be innocents from immorality and violence.

    Religion just lays down a set of rules; it's up to the individual whether or not they choose to follow those rules.
     
  2. Moorfius

    Moorfius Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Without Spirituality you have Religions*

    Hotep

    The "Natural Order of Things" have nothing to do with so called Religions. In the begining there is Spirituality, when a baby is born there is a new life that only knows Spirituality and is spoiled later by its parents who force feeds it Religion at the expence of the inocent babies Natural Spirituality. What "Religion" is the Sea, Ocean, Forest, Animals, Birds, Fish, Inscets, Sky, Sun, Moon and the Earth??? Before answering this question away with the typical learned responce from our imposed Religion, stop and really give this some thought...and it is right away realized that none of these things know any thing about,....Jewdaism, Christianity, Islam etc. All of thesee things are "Human-Propagandia" to produce control over the people by the Powers that have Absolute control over these Religions. You may say at this point,...No!...My Lord has control over mine or what ever,...However, you know in your hart that your imposed Religion is not under your control or the so-called G-d that "All" three of these mentioned confess. Once it was the Coptic church and now Rome controls all Christianity, the European so-call Zionist are calling the shots for the so-called Jews who are at War with the Muslims who are controled by the Arabs in Mecca. None of the worlds three Major Religions are in the hands or control of the African, and "Why"???? All of the "Deities" from the (European) Roman Church down to the "Hood" here in America are ((White)), except the ones we have started to "Paint" Black, but that really does not change any thing what ever, we are still controled by the croud controling Religions that none of "Us" really know any thing about,..If we did we would know that they "All" are under the "Control" of the so-called African's Historic Open Enemy,...The Europian, Caucasian, or the Indo-European and not "You". So...the question is who gave us these oppressive ideas that we have learn to love too well, thinking that any of them are going to give us a smooth ride to some Heaven as those who don't believe like our self are going to some rough ride to Hell?? One thing for sure is (1) You are worshiping some one elses Ancestors, the Europians,
    (2) There is no Redeeming value in what they tought us what so ever.
    (3) If you study and reserch you will find that they made up the stories
    that have been used to oppress, distort and inslave the minds of Blacks.
    (4) The truth is not going to be found in any ot these Religions that will
    Ever Free and allow the African to be Self-Determining and Indepentent.
    (5) If you don't know your self and think that G-d don't know color, then
    why is there such a big deal made out of your skin color African???
    (6) The Preachers and Revernd always tell us the same things from age 5
    to 95,...something that don't Educate any of us in the least about
    Spirituality by only how to stay in good graces with the "Systems" that
    Controls all Religions, that controls all the People who follows it and
    goes to War with any one who Opposes their "Ideas" and "Politics"
    of "Croud-Control" called Religions.
    So what is the Answer? Return to the ways of "Your" ancient ancestors who are "Spiritualy" more advanced then we could posibly imagin or ever think about becoming under any of the so-called Modern Main Stream Major Religions. Return to you own and raise up you own Ancestors to Honor! Why are we today so happy to lift up some one elses White Grand Parents to honor and totaly Forget about our own Ancestors that Gave the world every thing including you. Read History, read Anthropolagy, Study and do serious Deep Rescerch in your own history and see and understant for you self that every thing that has been given to you, no matter how beautifuy we try to make it,....is False and has nothing to do with Spirituality what so ever.

    Ase`
     
  3. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Talk to me brotha. Tell it like it is.

    When the folks in the white church use the pulpit as a soapbox to support Bush's war in iraq and the folks in the black church say ignore the man behind the curtain and don't worry about what Bush is doing. Just feed the refugees. And the folks in the whitehouse are laughing at the useful idiots in both churches--to say don't blame religion for the world's problems is not putting two and two together.

    When millions--no billions of people are duped into believing in the inerrancy of books that are full of errors, and the righteousness of a god that orders genocide and tells his followers the proper and humane way to rape a woman--when they call the man who told his disciples to sell their clothes to buy swords the Princae of peace--how can one say that these followers only CLAIM to believe? They were/are doing exactly what their religions tell them to do. If this is not the root of the world's problems then why is that period when the church ruled the world called "the Dark Ages?"
     
  4. Deepvoice

    Deepvoice Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Blaming any one thing for the world's problems is wrong. That even goes for black peoples problems. Spirituality and religion only differ by so much, so to talk badly about one is to hint around about the other. Anything spirtual or religious can be used to create troubles in this world.

    Spirituality gives you a picture, religion gives you a frame by which to put it in. One simply draws lines where there wasn't one previously.
    One puts emphasis on the middle man(in most cases), while the other cuts him completely out of the picture. That too, might be depending on who this middle man is.
     
  5. Moorfius

    Moorfius Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Politicly Correctness is a Waste of Time*

    Hotep

    If we are going to take it apon our selves to try and teach a whole "Generation", then "We" better "Damb-Well" be Correct.
    No one can speak on something they know nothing about. Spirituality is not up for debate. If we don't know all there is to know about something and yet will stand up to defend something that has distroyed Millions apon Millions of Africans in the "Name" of something that we even to day know nothing about, we make our self sound not too intelligent. There is no question that there has Never in the History of the Earth been a "War" over Spirituality or any Spirtual War,..."Only" war to push one of the "Ideas" of main stream organise major Religion controled by the Historical Open Enemy to "All" people of Color and the African in particular. We can sit in the comfort of our own homes with plenty of heat and food in the frige and declair any thing Foolish that is tought to us by the Cindicated so-called News Media that tells us what to think calling it Politicly Correctness and be Wrong as Hell, because we have not done our own "Home-Work", so that we can Know what we are saying. The closes thing we may call a war as far as Spirituality would be Katrina!...the distruction of Sodom and Gamora!! Or any other act of the Creator. What we have is not from that Creator of the Universe and All things, but is man-kind made and man-kind has Absolute Control over it.

    Ase`
     
  6. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Let us not confuse RELIGION with SCRIPTURE.

    You don't need a written script or holy book to practice religion, all you need is a set of divinely supposed rules and rituals.



    Moorfius

    Without religion, how would you even know what spirituality was?

    Without a proper guide, most people wouldn't be able to tell a spiritual experience from a bad dream...lol.


    You seem to imply that religion is some sort of "white man's device" to control us but remember Black people are and have always been much more religious than whites ever were.

    We are religious and methodical by nature and had hundreds of religions in Africa before contact with whites.

    If we didn't have organized religion, most of us would be engulfed in supertition.


    Keep in mind that spirituality isn't SEPARATE from religion.

    .....it's a intergal PART of religion.








    River

    Perhaps you may have been given a FALSE IMAGE of religion by those who have sought to decive you in the first place.

    Sometimes it's not the events you hear about that's most disturbing, but finding out that what you were told was FALSE and didn't actually take place the way you were led to believe.


    As a Muslim, I don't believe in the entire Bible and believe that it's been tampered with and added to by Persian, Greek, and Roman scribes.
    However, I also know that most of the HollyWood and European version of events and legends that have been passed down from generation to generation as "Christianity" isn't even mentioned in the Bible.

    Such as Jesus stumbling 3 times.
    There being 3 wise men.
    Or even the concept of Christmas and Easter.

    These aren't mentioned in the Bible, but when you find out that many of them are pagan myths and/or simply not true, we tend to through the whole thing out instead of looking at things analytically.
     
  7. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Generally I agree with the your overall points, but you ask, without religion how would we know what spirituality is. If you define religion in the context of organized belief systems such as Judaism, Christianity or Islam, then I would say the African was doing quite well before encountering all three religions. In fact many of our own spiritual tenets found there way in all 3 religions.

    Before the white man or the arab brought their religions to Africa we had working comprehensive belief systems, predicated on an understanding that there is a symbiotic relationship between the living and the spiritual world. That our purpose is find our path in life with the help and assistance of distinguished ancestors and orishas/neteru. To be the man/woman that the creator meant for us to be.

    When we adhere to religion, we are in fact cutting down our family tree. The roots of the tree still exist but the tree can no longer grow
     
  8. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sekhemu

    Why use the term "religion" when talking about Judaism and Christianity.
    But use the term "belief system" when talking about traditional African religions?

    Religion is religion whether it's brought by a white man, Arab, Chinese, or Black man.

    Religion is religion whether it has a written script or not.

    Religion is religion whether it's forced upon you or not.

    Religion is religion even whether it's TRUTH or not.


    Others may have a different definition, but I define religion as a (believed to be) divinely established rules and principles in which one claims to believe in.


    I agree we had our own forms of spirituality and belief systems before whites or Arabs introduced us to theirs....I agree 100%.

    But those belief systems were OUR RELIGIONS and those religions we had gave us instruction in how to properly practice our spirituality.

    Our religions taught us how to use certain herbs, how to contact certain spirits, how to initiate our children, ect.....

    It all goes right back to religion.
     
  9. Moorfius

    Moorfius Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Are you European, Arab, Asian or African???

    Hotep

    Who are your "Ancestors", ware are they from and ware did they Origenate??
    Spirituality is not what you think, knowing this from the statements made, it is obvious that there is much that is not known about so-called Africa and most of all,...Origenal Spirituality of the Origenal People of the Earth. Once agin, if we don't know something, we can't speak on it. We can't just make up what ever comes to our minds with no regard for the truth, because we don't know the truth. As painful as it is for some to invest years,....5, 10, 20 or 50, the truth is what it is and Can't be manipulated or changed when it come to the Natural Order of Things or commonly called Spirituality. Tens of thousands of years before there were any such thing as a Arab, Asian or Europian, there was Kemet. Do we think today that for all those years the so-called Ancient African waited for the advent of a New people namely the Arab and the Europian to come on the scean and start their Attacts, Murder, Robbery, Rapes, Slavery, Distruction, Distortions, Pillageing until today in 2005 they have succeded in Changing our minds (The Children of the Slaves) to thinking they have the true way, when they didn't have it to start with???
    Now to day we are tought to worship European, Asian and Arab Ancestors and give them holy Honor?!! If those are your Ancestors then that is ok but don't expect a Black Man and Black Woman who know who they are to "Stop" giving their most Ancient of all peoples of the Earth,...Honor and forget them and start to worship and give honor to a Stranger who has always been a Historical Enemy to the African!!??? That is out right Crazy, no matter how it is rationalized and twisted to sound like the truth, it is still what it is,...a baby knowledge that has only been around for less than 5000 years. Kemet is much, much, much older than that, and what was the Spiritual Belief System of the most Advanced Civilization the world has ever known??? Remember you can't speak on something you don't know! You must know your self first! If you don't know your self, you can't speak on the subject properly eaither, let alone 10, 20, 55 thousand and even a Million years of Ancient Kemetic History. Abram was just that,...when he supposidly left Er or Eu,...present day Iraqi, and after he reached Kemet with his group of wonerers,...his name was suddenly changed to Abraham or Abrahim, meaning he has entered the Black land or land of the Blacks. What did he bring with him before they all were kiciked out of Africa and sent across the Desert with nothing but a loin cloth for clothing some time later with Moses or Musa to make sure they didn't come back into KMT,...The answer is Nothing! The Arabs were the First to participate in the Slave Trade! Bilal was a Black Slave from Etiopi or also called Abbassina,...but so-called Africa just the same. The so-called Suez canal is a trench that was made to keep these uncivilized people from coming back into a place they were not wanted called Kemet, Egypt or Africa. During all of this time there was no such thing as Religion, that all came about after "We" sent them Kemetic Prist who you call "Prophets" whom they kill one by one, and tried to do the same to the "Last" one who was also sent with a System of Croud Control as was the others,...to bring the Savage, Beast people into Civilization. That time is up now. As the "Last" prophet to the Western World told them, there will be no more,... and the reason for this is,...the End of all Wicketness, Distortions, Mis-Representations, Lies and Re-Writing History to put Indo-Europeans in the so-called Africans place to give them self a Dignified origen is over. Now to day the so-called Africans who have done "Nothing" but suffer under the hand of "All" of these "Types" of "Man-Kind", has to be "Re-Educated" back into the knowledge of Self in order to take their Proper Place in the Earth, and this is in Motion at this very moment. Why are the ones who are at war for their particular "Ideas" that are suppose to be from the same man,...Abraham, even closer to each other in war than they are to the African???? They are more concerned about Arabia and Europe than Black Africa. But those who are sick, dumb, lost and ignorant can't see what is the true reality because they have been bought and spoiled and stripped of their Right Minds and try to Identify with every one but their own Selves. It is time to wake up African!! If one has wasted a number of years doing and following the wrong direction and discovers this,...it is never too late to get back on the Right Track before it is pronounced,...Ashes to Ases and Dust to Dust on their lifeles courps. Every thing that was forced on us during Slavery is False Docterin and there is "No" redeeming value in it what so ever, it is not pure Spirituality or commonly called the Natural Order of Things!!

    Ase`

    http://www.swagga.com/libation.htm

    http://www.inetmgrs.com/onepeoples/KMT.htm

    http://www.kenseamedia.com/encyclopedia/ppp/instructions_ptah_hotep.htm

    http://www.theearthcenter.com/
     
  10. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Moorfius

    Lol...I'm a Black man from America.

    But what does slavery and genocide of Black and Native people have to do with religion?

    Malcolm X said you don't catch hell because you are a Christian, or a Jew, or a Communist, or an American.

    You catch hell because you're a Black man.

    We weren't exploited because of our beliefs, we were exploited because they could easily take advantage of us militarily.


    Do you deny that Africans had our own religions BEFORE ever coming into contact with whites?
     
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