Black People : DOES WHITE MAN MAKE US GANGBANG? DID WHITE MAN MAKE US HIPHOP?

Isaiah

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Jun 8, 2004
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In light of some of our recent discussions regarding Tookie Williams, and the Death Penalty, and so on, I thought I needed to put this question out there for our community.

Firstly, there is a group of young African people who deal with poverty, White Supremacy, and oppression, by starting SNCC, or the Black Panther Party, or an entire artistic cultural phenomenon like HIPHOP... They chose to be an ASSET to their community, if not the entire world... We say, this was our idea of changing the environment, and making it a better place to live... We were proactive and progressive, sometimes, even without the support of our own community - particularly our elders...

Secondly, there is a group of young African people who deal with their poverty, miseducation, and the very same White Supemacist oppression, by establishing street gangs, some of which lead to drug gangs, and then prison gangs. They turned oppression inward, and fought their communities, not the oppressor. We say this is NOT our idea, but the Oppressor's idea, the Willie Lynch Model...

What I am interested in is, what makes these two groups of people do what they do in choosing their directions, since they both grew up in the very same environment, went to the same terrible school systems, and were raised by parents from the same backgrounds, who likely taught them to have the same value systems as the child next door??? Since many of these people even know one another, and grew up as friends, why does one guy become an activist and the other a nihilist??? Are there choices being made here??? Are principles being applied here by each party?

In one part of the country, African Americans break dance, and in the other they're breaking each other's heads over turf... Someone tell me why this is??? Why are WE refusing to deal with these dichotomies??? Why do we not analyze them, and put them to use in changing our behavioral response to oppression, rather than lumping the good in with the bad, and saying White boy is responsible for the bad, and we are responsible only for the good?(smile!)

Listen, peops, lets take our brother Mr. Williams... I believe, that just as Stan Williams made a decision to turn his life around upon entering prison, he made the decision to establish the crips while he was outside, in the world. White man did not make the decision for Stan to be Stan in San Quentin's Death Row, nor Tookie out in the Hood... Stan Williams was too smart and too brilliant for White boys to be controlling his actions like that... Stan Williams was a leader of men, not a follower... And so, too, this is the case with far too many brothers whom our community makes excuses for...and this would include myself.

So, while I have reams of stuff I want to say on this, I don't want to defeat the purpose of having us do some serious analysis and inventory about ourselves... I am asking us why do we all seem to unify around the excuse that White man made us do something we didn't REALLY want to do? That if we had some OTHER choices and alternatives, we woulda chosen those alternatives???



Peace!
Isaiah
 
Hip Hop did not exactly begin as a conscious political movement. What is the political message in "Rapper's Delight" ?

One of the most influential Hip Hop pioneer is Africa Bambataa who is an acknowledged FORMER GANG MEMBER and he himself built his reputation on this notoreity in establishing the Universal Zulu Nation.

The CRIPS and the Zulu Nation both began approximately during the SAME period (1972-73). Both were founded in neighborhoods in which "gangs" or "clubs" were already in existence.

To make a long story short, considering even the long history of conflict within the "Hip Hop Nation" and current FBI/poice involvement in discrediting, framing and possibly murdering some of the most influential hip hop artists and community youth leaders, I shall suggest studying carefully the operations of COINTELPRO.

Peace!
 
omowalejabali said:
Hip Hop did not exactly begin as a conscious political movement. What is the political message in "Rapper's Delight" ?

One of the most influential Hip Hop pioneer is Africa Bambataa who is an acknowledged FORMER GANG MEMBER and he himself built his reputation on this notoreity in establishing the Universal Zulu Nation.

The CRIPS and the Zulu Nation both began approximately during the SAME period (1972-73). Both were founded in neighborhoods in which "gangs" or "clubs" were already in existence.

To make a long story short, considering even the long history of conflict within the "Hip Hop Nation" and current FBI/poice involvement in discrediting, framing and possibly murdering some of the most influential hip hop artists and community youth leaders, I shall suggest studying carefully the operations of COINTELPRO.

Peace!

I have to second this notion.

Stanely "Tookie" Williams will live on in the actions of those who want to empower our people.
 
I presented a question on Destee a while back stating how can this despicable government successfully infiltrate and destroy progressive Black organizations such as the Black Panther Party but can't destroy the Bloods and Crips? We all know the answer to this question. But to give this subject some validity many questions are answered in an excellent documentary I viewed called "The Fire This Time: Why L.A. Burned."

In this documentary, "Bobby Lavender" who is one of the co-founders of the Bloods, said the government destruction of the BPP directly lead to the influx of drugs in the community and the rise of the Bloods and Crips. Lavender and other commentators in the documentary specifically stated the Bloods and Crips original intent was not Black on Black gang violence, but subsequently the two groups agenda was diverted by government provocateurs which resulted in the Bloods and Crips turning on each other.

This documentary doesn't deal in conspiracy theories but cold hard facts from eyewitnesses of the time. To get a better understanding I highly recommend this documentary to everyone. If anyone decides to view it please share your thoughts on this subject.

Alafia!
 
omowalejabali said:
Hip Hop did not exactly begin as a conscious political movement. What is the political message in "Rapper's Delight" ?

One of the most influential Hip Hop pioneer is Africa Bambataa who is an acknowledged FORMER GANG MEMBER and he himself built his reputation on this notoreity in establishing the Universal Zulu Nation.

The CRIPS and the Zulu Nation both began approximately during the SAME period (1972-73). Both were founded in neighborhoods in which "gangs" or "clubs" were already in existence.

To make a long story short, considering even the long history of conflict within the "Hip Hop Nation" and current FBI/poice involvement in discrediting, framing and possibly murdering some of the most influential hip hop artists and community youth leaders, I shall suggest studying carefully the operations of COINTELPRO.

Peace!

Brother Omowale, I agree - and will go even further to say it still isn't a conscious political movement!(smile!)

That is not my point, however... My point is that this, basically, artistic phenomenon of graffitti art, Music, Dance, and clothes/Gear design is a far better, far more intelligent response to oppression than gangbanging... The Zulu Nation aint never murdered nobody... They were, as you said, nothing more than a social club...

I'm saying that both the social club and the gangbangers made some conscious decisions to do what they did, and COINTELPRO was in full effect for each of them... Panthers in NYC were under cointelpro assault like Panthers in Oakland and Los Angeles, yet these children here made some different kinds of decisions... I am interested in understanding WHAT was the reason for that??? And this is not an east coast/west coast piece, either, because the Panthers started out on the West Coast...

I am not interested in casting blame, or going off into tribal whoops. I am interested in knowing why we feel so disempowered as a group of people, that we aren't taking responsibility for our gangbangers like we would for a SNCC or Panthers or Nation Of Islam??? The GOOD BLACK FOLKS vs EVIL WHITE FOLKS piece is far to simple an explanation for such a complex set of circumstances and events...



Peace!
Isaiah
 

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