Black People : DOES WHITE MAN MAKE US GANGBANG? DID WHITE MAN MAKE US HIPHOP?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Isaiah, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In light of some of our recent discussions regarding Tookie Williams, and the Death Penalty, and so on, I thought I needed to put this question out there for our community.

    Firstly, there is a group of young African people who deal with poverty, White Supremacy, and oppression, by starting SNCC, or the Black Panther Party, or an entire artistic cultural phenomenon like HIPHOP... They chose to be an ASSET to their community, if not the entire world... We say, this was our idea of changing the environment, and making it a better place to live... We were proactive and progressive, sometimes, even without the support of our own community - particularly our elders...

    Secondly, there is a group of young African people who deal with their poverty, miseducation, and the very same White Supemacist oppression, by establishing street gangs, some of which lead to drug gangs, and then prison gangs. They turned oppression inward, and fought their communities, not the oppressor. We say this is NOT our idea, but the Oppressor's idea, the Willie Lynch Model...

    What I am interested in is, what makes these two groups of people do what they do in choosing their directions, since they both grew up in the very same environment, went to the same terrible school systems, and were raised by parents from the same backgrounds, who likely taught them to have the same value systems as the child next door??? Since many of these people even know one another, and grew up as friends, why does one guy become an activist and the other a nihilist??? Are there choices being made here??? Are principles being applied here by each party?

    In one part of the country, African Americans break dance, and in the other they're breaking each other's heads over turf... Someone tell me why this is??? Why are WE refusing to deal with these dichotomies??? Why do we not analyze them, and put them to use in changing our behavioral response to oppression, rather than lumping the good in with the bad, and saying White boy is responsible for the bad, and we are responsible only for the good?(smile!)

    Listen, peops, lets take our brother Mr. Williams... I believe, that just as Stan Williams made a decision to turn his life around upon entering prison, he made the decision to establish the crips while he was outside, in the world. White man did not make the decision for Stan to be Stan in San Quentin's Death Row, nor Tookie out in the Hood... Stan Williams was too smart and too brilliant for White boys to be controlling his actions like that... Stan Williams was a leader of men, not a follower... And so, too, this is the case with far too many brothers whom our community makes excuses for...and this would include myself.

    So, while I have reams of stuff I want to say on this, I don't want to defeat the purpose of having us do some serious analysis and inventory about ourselves... I am asking us why do we all seem to unify around the excuse that White man made us do something we didn't REALLY want to do? That if we had some OTHER choices and alternatives, we woulda chosen those alternatives???



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  2. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hip Hop did not exactly begin as a conscious political movement. What is the political message in "Rapper's Delight" ?

    One of the most influential Hip Hop pioneer is Africa Bambataa who is an acknowledged FORMER GANG MEMBER and he himself built his reputation on this notoreity in establishing the Universal Zulu Nation.

    The CRIPS and the Zulu Nation both began approximately during the SAME period (1972-73). Both were founded in neighborhoods in which "gangs" or "clubs" were already in existence.

    To make a long story short, considering even the long history of conflict within the "Hip Hop Nation" and current FBI/poice involvement in discrediting, framing and possibly murdering some of the most influential hip hop artists and community youth leaders, I shall suggest studying carefully the operations of COINTELPRO.

    Peace!
     
  3. MANASIAC

    MANASIAC Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have to second this notion.

    Stanely "Tookie" Williams will live on in the actions of those who want to empower our people.
     
  4. Mad Skillz

    Mad Skillz Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I presented a question on Destee a while back stating how can this despicable government successfully infiltrate and destroy progressive Black organizations such as the Black Panther Party but can't destroy the Bloods and Crips? We all know the answer to this question. But to give this subject some validity many questions are answered in an excellent documentary I viewed called "The Fire This Time: Why L.A. Burned."

    In this documentary, "Bobby Lavender" who is one of the co-founders of the Bloods, said the government destruction of the BPP directly lead to the influx of drugs in the community and the rise of the Bloods and Crips. Lavender and other commentators in the documentary specifically stated the Bloods and Crips original intent was not Black on Black gang violence, but subsequently the two groups agenda was diverted by government provocateurs which resulted in the Bloods and Crips turning on each other.

    This documentary doesn't deal in conspiracy theories but cold hard facts from eyewitnesses of the time. To get a better understanding I highly recommend this documentary to everyone. If anyone decides to view it please share your thoughts on this subject.

    Alafia!
     
  5. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother Omowale, I agree - and will go even further to say it still isn't a conscious political movement!(smile!)

    That is not my point, however... My point is that this, basically, artistic phenomenon of graffitti art, Music, Dance, and clothes/Gear design is a far better, far more intelligent response to oppression than gangbanging... The Zulu Nation aint never murdered nobody... They were, as you said, nothing more than a social club...

    I'm saying that both the social club and the gangbangers made some conscious decisions to do what they did, and COINTELPRO was in full effect for each of them... Panthers in NYC were under cointelpro assault like Panthers in Oakland and Los Angeles, yet these children here made some different kinds of decisions... I am interested in understanding WHAT was the reason for that??? And this is not an east coast/west coast piece, either, because the Panthers started out on the West Coast...

    I am not interested in casting blame, or going off into tribal whoops. I am interested in knowing why we feel so disempowered as a group of people, that we aren't taking responsibility for our gangbangers like we would for a SNCC or Panthers or Nation Of Islam??? The GOOD BLACK FOLKS vs EVIL WHITE FOLKS piece is far to simple an explanation for such a complex set of circumstances and events...



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  6. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    They don't "make" us gang-bang or turn gangsta....they influenced and tricked many of us into doing so.

    As always, they take a few willing agents of our community and pay them do lead us into self-destruction.

    They do it with drug dealers.
    They do it with gang leaders.
    They do it in the entertainment industry.

    A white man produced 50Cent's movie when no black director would touch it.

    Freeway Ricky Ross was being used by white agents to bring drugs into the Black commmunity.

    Eazy-E attended a Bush Republican fund-rasing convention and supported the officers who beat Rodney King.
    He also supported Clarence Thomas.

    These men are enemies of the Black community in my opinin and are among the real agents used to destroy us.







    "And Satan says when the affair is decided, ‘Verily God promised you a promise of truth but I promised you and failed you; for I had no authority over you. I only called you, and ye did answer me so blame me not but blame yourselves"
    Koran 14:26-27
     
  7. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That's a good thread Isaiah...(what's good folk ? :) .........I was listening to a radio program yesterday and Tupac's brother was on there talking about Tookie and he went so far as to say that you can't blame Stanley for what he did because it was the system that made him the way he was.... starting with the middle passage and on into slavery to Stanley not having a good Daddy at home to the school system and teachers not caring and the school system failing to educate and socialize him no jobs and on and on.........I understand that the system of slavery still has lasting effects on our people in America today but my question is .....when are we as a people going to start taking more responsibility for our actions.....it's very easy to always blame the system, schools,teachers, Daddy and Mama,the neighborhood,lack of jobs etc but when do we get to the point where we say I f'd up this is on nobody but me....maybe a lot of this has to do with who I was raised by and where I was raised but most of what I was told growing up can be summed up in a phrase my Daddy and Uncle used to pound into my head...."you are your worst enemy and your best friend"....meaning I am the one who controls what I do good or bad for the positive or negative....no one but me....the men and women that raised me were mostly rural independant self sufficient Mississippians and they believed in not having to count on anybody to do anything for you.......root little pig or die.......it's time for us as a people to Man up and handle our own business .....you want that education get in school and get it done...you want a job get out there and get one....you don't have a father figure then make due and handle your business the best you know how but know this ain't nobody going to hold your hand the world is a hard place so what handle it ..... like I always say it's good and bad in everything some of us are positive and get it done despite the world trying to eat us and some of us are not and we'd rather terrorize , steal from and otherwise harm those around us......Stan was not a positive Brother early in life and later on he changed ....( I dont' know if he did or didn't I never met him so can't speak on that) but I do know for a fact that he killed folk and did some funky stuff.....but when I heard him interviewed he started blaming everything and everyone except himself he never once said that was all on me....and that's the same thing I'm hearing a lot of Black activists saying and then they go on to compare him to Malcolm, Martin, and others **** near making him a saint please........not one person speaking for him mentioned them folk he got not one.....innocent folk that was just at work....working..and for what 220.00 roughly..........and then behind that to blame everybody from slave traders to the government to his sorry father...that burns me....and I think we as a people need to get away from that....we all know our past and the effects , we all know how we are viewed by out govt , so what we were once independant people living in the South we took care of our own when we failed there was only us to blame now we almost refuse to blame ourselves and it sickens me everytime I hear it.......I was left at the hospital on the day I was born, there are no records of my ever being born, I've never met my mother or father,I lived in a neighborhood where cats sold and sell drugs, guns, women, openly without fear of anything they shoot each other down in broad daylight in front of stores with women and kids around, every school I went to from K-12 was all Black (so you know we had no funding or support from the city school board) , the jr high I went to was so tore up that when it rained outside it was raining inside we had to put buckets in the halls and classrooms to catch the water we had books that were copywritten in 1956 with the most recent versions in the school being 1970 ( this was in 1981),in high school there were 2 murders in the classroom and multiple arse kickings routinely throughout the year even with the principal, assist prin. and assorted teachers catching beatdowns, I was stabbed once, shot once in the mouth (thank God it was only a pellet gun but it was close enough to penetrate and had to be removed), but through all that I made it through I made mistakes on the way but knew that what happened was on me and I had to learn from them and try not to repeat the same mistakes ....i had potnas that for a while were dropping like flys because they never learned but because of how we were raised we all knew that there was noone to blame for their demise but them....well I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop here but it's only because I'm so passionate about this....
    in short it's time for us as a people to man up take responsibility for our actions. I try not to wish death on anybody but like I said in another post it be that way sometime......nobody made him gun down them 4 folk and we don't even know how many other folk he put down other Black folk, nobody made old boy shoot that girl in the face with that pumpa he did that he made a conscious decision to take the wrong path and that ain't on the govt, or his community, or none of that .....that is all on him..

    MississippiRed
    I really can't stand Jesse Jackson
     
  8. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Mississippi Red

    We just have our priorities all jacked up.

    They're commiting straight up genocide against us down in New Orleans and trying to wipe us out, and the head negroes in charge are piled up at some island over in Cali crying and slobbering over Tookie Williams like he's Marcus Garvey.

    .
     
  9. Sodwn2earth

    Sodwn2earth Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Originally posted by Dual Karnayn
    Don't you think your exaggerating just a bit?

    I think that the divergence in direction among us stems from where the support and encouragment comes from. As MississippiRed pointed out "my Daddy and Uncle used to pound into my head...", he obviously had positive encouragment and opinions from those closest to him. Those who don't or get very minimal encouragement from people that count seek it elsewhere, or let others influence their behavior. They see a gang "family" that praises them for their violent actions and from where they can get the attention and encouragment they are looking for. Others who come from the same enviornment and have a strong sense of who they are can avoid the negativity. Yes, it was the whiteman that brought us to this point, but we are now at such a state of self-awarness that we can begin to undo some of the damage......
     
  10. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    SoDwn2earth, that's at least a start... What bothers me more than the White man made us do all our dirt, is the "aint nothing we can do about it" mentality that perpetuates White Man's master plan... We sound like a people with a broken, busted spirit... We've never got any aspirations to overthrow the monkey on our back... We're just always pointing out the obvious, that he's there...

    I am not interested in people telling me about White Supremacy... I've read books on the subject numbering now into the double figures... I don't need African folks talking down to me like I just got conscious a minute a go... I need Africans to tell me how we can conspire to overthrow this debilitating mentality that cripples our communities...

    Our ancestors knew NOT to make excuses for themselves... They knew it only hurt THEM... That's why we are in such sad shape right now... We make too many excuses for ourselves... We excuse bad behavior of our children, our men, and our women... We say, "don't know his hustle", even thought "his hustle" is killing our children in the streets of this country...even though his hustle is poisoning the wombs of Black women, and removing African men from the society for the purposes of slave labor in these penitentiaries... We don't even see the disservice we are doing to one another, we are so busy blaming the Whtie man... Even if we blamed the White man back in the day, we did it with the idea of confronting the white man on it... Today, we just wanna hear ray-ray and june bug hear themselves sounding half intelligent...

    I don't wanna hear ray-ray and junebug pop no more bubblegum... I want us to bring the solutions, and the actions to free us from our enemies, both White and Black...


    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
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