Black People : Does it affect the way we see our women?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by skuderjaymes, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    This is from a thread located in the Premium-only Adult forum.. or.. th e boody locker.. as I call it.. The original thread is entitled: which-one-brothers-leave-snow-white-alone and is located @ http://www.destee.com/index.php?threads/which-one-brothers-leave-snow-white-alone.66394/ Most of the pictures from the thread cannot be posted out here without violating the rules regarding sexual content.



    I think most of us agree that African people have been deeply psychologically affected by the
    enslavement, brutality and subjugation by Europeans.. and the effects are laced in the folkways
    of black people..

    so let me ask you this,

    "to what degree do you think that same phenomena has affected the way we look
    and deal with our women sexually?"

    When I look at these pictures [the pictures are of black women in sexually suggestive poses
    with sexually suggestive expressions, lipstick, heels, ], my instinctual self is intrigued by the feminine figure.. My conscious mind, however, which is locked in a perpetual loop of applying my accumulated perspective to what I see, recognizes the indignity of seeing our women objectified in a way that reeks of European perversion. Our women are beautiful.. but they are also our daughters.. our sisters.. and what man would want to see his daughter rendered in this way? as nothing more than an object of sexual desire.. ?

    Our women are beautiful in ways far beyond the size and shape of their body parts.. their
    beauty emanates from within and it reaches back to the beginning of time.. back to our
    homeland.. back before contact with the West.. And it seems to me that if we are going to undo
    the damage done to us, we have to apply our knowledge to every part of our culture.. not just
    the parts we don't like.. but also the parts that we do.. like most these pictures.. Think about it...

    ..and listen, I'm the number 1 fan of the female figure..
     
  2. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You know, if it were just men speaking on this, I would comment.
    But the one thing I have learned is that a subject like this where you're speaking on the female figure, with women watching/listening, is like that proverbial time-bomb ticking. :argue:
     
  3. Ikoro

    Ikoro Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Haven't seen the pics, but will drop my $0.02.

    First of all, I think we should man up and allow ourself to have this conversation. Any progressive black woman should understand what's going on in this thread from a glance; black men are talking about something that pertains largely to us as a group. If anyone understands the need for group talks and such, it should be black women. Join in kamau, don't stradde the fence.

    As an Afrikan centred black male who is also a feminist (yes, I said it), I think a lot of the struggles we have today are of course due to our history with the savages. Everything from hair politics to colorism is of interest here. But when we are talking about how we as men view and treat women in general and especially OUR women, we have to start talking about the male power structure that is in place - which we benefit from.

    The (eurocentric) male power structure, just like the white supremacy power structure, is for us men (this includes black men) invisible and to a large extent difficult for us to point out as we are the holders of privilege. Think about how ignorant whites are in terms of their whiteness and their privilege, men are the same - black men being no exception. Privilege, too, is invisible to those of us who have it.

    So one might even say the start point of this conversation needs to adress that; privilege. The fact that men sit around watching sexually suggestive pictures of women is in itself a questionable practice, but women do it too. And going from your description (lipsticks, high heels etc), it is clear to me that those are some eurocentrically dressed women. That is another problem; how we appropriated white standards of beauty and placed them on our women. Today, you won't escape without harm if you tell women that high heels is stupid, they'll serve you with something silly like 'it's my choice' or 'you hate black women because you don't want them to have the freedom to dress how they like'. Clearly, they have internalized the message that was served to them by men many years ago: "Wear what we tell you to wear and what we tell you is beautiful, anyone who speaks against this is self-serving. You are free, you are sexual and your sexuality must always be stressed because it constantly affirms and empowers you...." total wickedness.

    And as for looking at pictures of women. Women do it too of course. However, when that practice allows us to project our fantasies and such over into the real life sphere - it is a problem. Many of us deal with women as commodoties, some of us disrespect women physically (touching, abuse etc) and far too many of us condone to music that is outrageously disrespectful. But we don't have to deal with it in terms of consequences, we don't get harassed, we don't get disrespected if we walk down the street, we don't get approached threatingly by some dude who wants our number etc. Because of this, so many of us don't speak out or combat it actively. Just like white people and their whiteness/racism. That right there is privilege, and that shapes the way we view our women.

    We can't sit around repeating endlessly how much we respect women and love our black women's figures, color etc. We need to do something.

    Where do we need to start? In my opinion, we need to start by giving up our privilege and actively fight against that system which is in place today.

    Do we have an awareness of our privilege as (black) men? If not, let's get it. If so, let's get practical and outline our privilege then!

    One,

    - Ikoro

    p.s.: That being said, I was Afrikan (Igbo) before I was anything else, and as such a large part of the battle is in finding the middle ground between modern approach and culturally correct practice. Being progressive I think that we need to cut out what part of our culture is no longer practical and implement new practices that lift us up and help us win in the long run. But I am also conservative, and I will never inculcate white ideas like 'male and female is just a construct'. The man has his place and his role in our society, homosexuality has no place among us and the woman is alloted certain rights, privilege and burdens that the man is not (and vice versa).

    The whites are now seeing how their men are being made effeminate and their women masculine (or at least WE are seeing it). We can't have that, that's foolishness. We need Brothers, warriors, kingly personas, protectors and leaders. If we are going to have that, we must keep those cultural elements that made boys into men (rites of passage, affirmation by the society etc).

    The Angry Black Woman (ABW) does exist, as does the Independent Black Woman (IBW). That is our problem as men too, women who walk around denouncing men and who have been abandoned time and time again don't need to be saved - they need to be SHOWN that the Afrikan man is not gone, he was just lost for a minute. For we are nothing without our women, we came from one and we will produce our offpsring with one. Let's build sustainable sexual politics and institutions.

    Black men, we must save ourselves.
     
  4. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    come on now Kamau.. don't be skurred.. they can't throw no hot grits on you through the internet.. but seriously..
    There's nothing controversial.. or anti-women in this.. this is really just an analysis of the cultural effects of our enslavement and subjugation.. its about applying "consciousness" to all areas of our experience.. not just to Politics and
    History.. it's about widening the scope our understanding If we are going to really get down to the base of how we have been affected by our history, we have to check every corner.. including our sexual perceptions, attitudes and behaviors. I don't think any of the women will be offended by that.. and if they are they shouldnt be so, don't be hiding behind
    theoretical skirts.. say what you have to say!
     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i am a photographer and i have a portfolio of black women in erotic situations.
    i think women are supposed to be objects of sexual desire sometimes. else how would the race propagate?
    because a woman is sexy on monday does not mean she can't be a business person on tuesday.
    nobody should be just one thing. it's ok for black people to be sexy sometimes.
     
  6. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Theoretical nothing. My wife reads these threads sometimes. And this thread is like the "Am I getting fat?" question that is known to husbands as landmines. No answer you can give will be right. :(
    And now if you'll excuse me, the barrel of the gun is hurting the back of my head.
     
  7. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread :D

    Courtesy of the movie, "Shaka Zulu".
     
  8. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    now Im really wondering what you plan to say.. I still cant see whats controversial about the topic.. but you know better than I do about what can get the grits on you..
     
  9. Mikha'el

    Mikha'el Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i know that wille lynch a renound slave owner who developed a system of controlling slaves has affected relationships among africans

    but does this have an affect on the way in which we as brothers view our african sisters? Idk

    Someone enlighten me here
     
  10. Ikoro

    Ikoro Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace Brother Mike.

    If you read my post, you'll get an inkling.

    But we can certainly make the argument that the Lynch tactics have been imprinted in our minds as men. Once we gained our freedom back, all over the world, we Afrikan men (many of us) had a problem that was many-fold.

    Colorism - we liked the light skinned house ne_gro over the dark skinned.
    Respect - many of us had lost respect for our own Afrikan women and had developed a fetish for the white woman
    Privilege - as men, we received privilege that was eurocentric in scope from the white males power structure. This privilege puts down black woman, all the time - everyday.
    Self-respect and self-hate - Lynch tactics created black on black violence, it created self-hate (I am black and hate that, so are you, you remind me of my blackness so I hate and must kill you).

    Pick up a book by Dr. Amos Wilson, he has one specifically dealing with black on black violence. Julia Hare and her husband has written extensively on black sexual politics.

    Today, you can take a look on the TV to see how we view our Afrikan Sisters. You can look out the window and check out how the youths are interacting (hey shorty, hey ma, can I have your number, you're cute, you're sexy, pop that p_ussy for me').

    It's right there. Question is, what we as men going to do to dispel this curse and mentality? Today, you can ignore Lynch and ask yourself what are YOU to doing to take responsibility and disown the unfair privilege that was given to you?

    One.
     
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