Black People : Do you exist?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by African_Prince, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Objectively speaking, you do not. What makes "you" who "you" are is your personality, your conscious mind yet, you wouldn't say that the neurological process that "causes" your conscious mind is "you". You cannot be empirically observed the way an apple or even your body can, we only exist perceptually.
     
  2. BallOfConfusion

    BallOfConfusion Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Your explanation flew right over my head. I don't even think I understand the question anymore - hypothetical bull
     
  3. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Gordian Knot

    Why wouldn't (or couldn't ) you say that? It is just as neurotic as identifying with a unstable and fluid constellation of impulses and fleeting truisms that cumulatively (per indiscriminate immitation) make up ones "Personality."


    The OBSERVABLE (which requires an observer who for all purposes only exist perceptually) architecture of your neurological processes does not exist as well. Even the apple is a phenomenon (its form) that is context specific per neural-representational maps (as well as ones SENSE of Self, positioning, and the "sense" of being the ones who own the experience.)

    I say, essentially (with what is deductively being implied) all that appears to be going on is No-thing. Representational structures or organic navigational systems (for the sake of trying to explain this linearly which is a blunder in and of itself) facilitate every dimension of what we in/experience all the way to the very sensory qualities we rely on to validate our contrived definitions of THINGS (which includes my penchant for classifying it as an organic Nav system or representational structure....which would require some sort of neutral and objective platform of quantification.) This is what leads some to propose a Holographic universe or multiverse. Density, the condensation of focus; giving us a grounded/intense *feeling* of concretion all eventually (at some juncture) emerge from quantum processes which are preceded by (equivocally) an undescribable medium of 0 point Matter/Energy/Conciousness/Will. The only reason I (non-technically) call this whole process an inter-connected unfolding of consciousness (regardless of the definitions we give to each seemingly different phase of crystallization) is because "Who I AM" is the essence of "WHAT IS" which is Nothing in Particular (I have the option, *BEING that i don't exist*, to identify with my personality, those processes that precede it or the non-existence itself). How this translates in a practical/viable sense is emancipating for me but nothing over the top and spectacular (for sci-fi fans). Its perks (overwhelmingly challenging) are for those who walk the path only ...it can't be told, packaged or controled. Hetep...NO foreal HETEP!
     
  4. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    For the record, I'm not saying that your mind doesn't exist, obvious it does but it only exists PERCEPTUALLY. If a neurologist were to show you a magnified image of your neurons communicating, you wouldn't say "those are my thoughts". Your thoughts aren't physical THINGS that exist, they only exist perceptually. It's like when you hear voices in your head, the voices don't exist objectively, you are only perceiving them. Your brain is a physial organ that exists objectively, your mind is not, your mind is a perception.


    The existence of the apple is interpreted neurologically, but it exists independently of our mind. A tree falls whether someone is around to witness it falling or not.
     
  5. hiphopolx

    hiphopolx Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I disagree. If I decide to change my personality, then personality can not be the essence of who we are. The essence of who we are is the 1 thing that has been eternally consistent.

    You cannot be empirically observed the way an apple or even your body can, we only exist perceptually


    Consider this If you obverved me and the apple with the naked eye from a distance of 10 miles, would you see a difference?

    How would the difference compare from the perspective of an electron?
     
  6. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Great observation

    Cause and effect is relational but not the focus of the matter.... What we are use to percieving as The Tree, The cause and effect relationship, as well as the observer are all surrogate representations in the mind. (At least that is what these mortals (Who's conjecture you seem to deify) are saying)

    So , if the existence of the apple is interpreted neurologically...at what point in the process(and by what measurable standard) can you assert with confidence that it exist separate from our (key word is: OUR) mind?

    There seems to be some fundamental information processing going on ...we could be retrieving echoes (vibrations , hekau, veves, sounds..Photons as info carriers) that have signature corresponding representational structures (virtural maps..analog) in the mind that give us this sense of "tangible" in which we create the definition "Apple"; placing it into context with other phenomenon (ie Fruit Salad).

    This is not my bantering this is what is being stated in Neuroscience:

    "You believe (though in fact it is not true) that you are a material being in a material world when in fact you are an intangible spirit (function) and know nothing of the material world. I will show you how this is so. How can our minds have a true notion of being material when the contents of our notions, thoughts, perceptions and ‘selves’ are not physical but are only transient computations of our brains? Experience is a material characteristic of the brain. I will explain its relationship to consciousness."

    *THE HIDDEN*

    "The external environment does not have an appearance yet our minds give it one." *That includes what you demarcate as "THE BRAIN"*

    [Regarding "Intangible affects" or Relationships]:

    Outside things merely affect us. We see them when and if they affect an information carrier such as light that stimulates our sensory apparatuses, which in turn send neural impulses inward to our brains. So what we call the world is an active, alive, biological process going on inside our brains. Think of it as being inside a living map. We can't see things out there, so our brains take information from light affected by things out there and produce a 3-D panoramic model of the world in our heads. How do we know that it is in 3-D and panoramic? Simply because that is the way we experience it despite what the mechanisms might be that contribute to how it occurs. As we move about in the external world our brains are constantly changing this internal map. What we know as the external world is, in actuality, a navigation room in our minds that is essential to computing our interactions within our environment. It is this navigation room that we experience as the external world. The map is seeing, itself. Seeing is (equals) what is seen, but is seen is inside our heads, not outside.

    http://www.science-of-consciousness.com/1_introduction-to-consciousness.htm

    Also check: (I gave you this before ...did you read) The Feeling of "What Happens" body and emotion in the making of consciousness by Antonio Damasio (Cutting edge Neuropsych..in the realm of "Mortal conjecture")

    and his book "Descartes Error" ...these books and the foregoing website all substantiate my assertions beyond my own idealistic sophistry. Hetep
     
  7. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Interesting Video regarding the subject

    Roger Penrose: "Consciousness is linked to Quantum gravity/*FUNDAMENTAL* space time geometry"
    (author of "The Road To Reality")

    Make Note of what is said 13 & 33 min into the video
     
  8. emanuel goodman

    emanuel goodman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    perception is the key and standard

    The mere fact that one can be perceived should be evidence enough.
    for all forms of perception are energetic. In order to organize and struturce the data it must first be read once it is read a data storage begins to equate the sum of the vibrations that are sent. A holographic(physical image atomic) is projected out of the lens projecting an image based upon the energy received. Chicken or egg are u the energy or the temporary form the energy has taken. IN my opinion both. Since i and the energy are one it does not make sense in my opinion to say the the essence of my being exisit but "I" do not. Kind of hurts just to write it . IN my opinion we are all individual reflections of the source. In our case we are all have different froms of the amen(hidden unseen) within in us. for is this same amen that is response able for reorganizing the chaos it enjoys causing and repairing on a continous basis.In my opinion brother we are very low on the hierachy when it comes to cause and effect when it comes to the order of things.
     
  9. emanuel goodman

    emanuel goodman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    sorry brother



    did not see your post as usual we agree. hotep
     
  10. MenNefer

    MenNefer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Meri Tu Maat

    I always appreciate you Good Bro and what you chose to build on...
     
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