Black Spirituality Religion : Do some christians have an agenda

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Sekhemu, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    All of us know that our ancestors were not christian. That in fact, christianity was forced on them. Missionaries, Jesuits et al have spent the last 500 years spreading the gospel and trying to save the souls of the non-believe (heathens), in many instances killing and destroying entire cultures in the name of the Christian God.

    So I ask the questions. is there an agenda on the part of some christians to convert people(non-believers) to the belief in accepting a man named jesus as their saviour and in affect adopting their religion?

    Also do you think the word Non-believer is a constructive one?
     
  2. Rashad

    Rashad Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    what up brotha,
    I thought this was rather intresting so i'll post what i feel is right. I believe that christians wished that all people were christians and that would make this world a better place. Some christians will try to convert and some don't. With that said, i think it is the christian agenda to get people to believe jesus died and rose for our sins because it's the foundation of christianity. the word non-believer is very constructive if you don't believe and if thats what a person would rather be called instead of a believer. It's up to the individual i believe. I do not participate in any particular religion, but i would like to call myself a believer because i believe in one universal GOD. Much respect!
     
  3. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "the word non-believer is very constructive if you don't believe and if thats what a person would rather be called than a believer" Isn't the point of faith relative to the individual. So that if I believe in something else am I still a non-believer.

    Maybe what some christians should say is non-christian believers. After all most people believe in something. Doesn't it seem a little chauvanistic for a person to want the wish the entire world to believe exactly the same way they do? That in fact would it not be reasonable to assume that many christians believe non-christians, are in error of who and what they believe in, and that they are doomed to damnation.

    This is a tendency that I've been hard pressed to find prevelant among people who don't suscribe to the 3 major western religions.
     
  4. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sekhemu,
    Jesus is my ancestor. He is from an african lineage. And trust, before there were spanish missionaires, pilgrims and colonists in the last 500 years of enslaving our people, there was Jesus- there was Abraham. He saw the ressurection of Christ through faith.
    there was Adam, my other ancestor from the dust of the dark soil.
    ... my ancestors like Abraham who saw the ressurection of Christ through faith.
    So in like effect, l'm saying that "Christianity" was not forced on Jesus or the aforementioned so why, in the name of these ancestors, would l allow a white man's warped representation of Christianity so easily break the honorable, life-long legacy of worshipping the One God. l could not divert so willingly, even if they tried to use my own God against me and call that ship the "Good Jesus ship" or whatever the name is. l could argue that your belief against Jesus is a result of the reverse tactic used by the enslavers.
    There were our other ancestors who believed and practiced differently.
    My job is not to judge them my job is to love them.

    To answer your questions.

    1)
    there is no agenda to convert or adopt anybody here to Christianity. When people offer their view, as you do, it doesn't mean they're proselytizing. lf you can't show me where one christian is telling someone to "do or die", then your question is a uninspired, silly one (no disrespect).

    2)
    l think the word "Non-believer" is fitting for one person who doesn't believe as the other. lf you don't add the religious attachment to it, you will see the pure connotation. l'm a "Non-believer" of evolution and l'm not trying to be constructive about the situation.


    real peace.
     
  5. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    If Jesus is your ancestor, and I'm not saying he isn't, then where is his grave, where is his altar? Where are the offerings and libations made to him in keeping with the African Tradition of a departed and prominent ancestor?

    Now you might make this case concerning Heru, the prototype of your Jesus. But ofcourse you haven't done that, correct. If I'm not mistaken your Jesus, was taught in the mystery schools an Annu(Heliopolis) and was a high initiate in the system of medu neter, allegedly!

    My belief is not against your jesus, whatever that means, my POINT is that our people had a working comprehensive spiritual system, in place, that was destroyed and denigrated by the slave master, so that to this day, it is seen as Devil worship. This is the quintessential problem that many of your fellow christians have with traditional african belief systems. It is for this reason I've made a concerted effort to demystify this myth, and to challenge my fellow brothas and sistahs to take a new look at was is thought to be an old devil

    No, you're right christianity was not forced on Jesus, but it was forced on my ancestors who were neither muslim or christian, so your analogy is a little off base, and a little silly (no disrespect to you)

    you ask "why in the name of these ancestors would I allow a white man's warped representation of christianit so easily break the honorable life-long legacy of worshipping the one God"

    First of all, do you know the names of these ancestors? and secondly, and if you do not, can you say they recognize the same God you speak of? After all was it not the Gnostics that talked about the Demiurge and the true God. So Naturally if they( your ancestors) do not recognize this God you speak of, then you may have a whole different ball of wax to examine. no pun intended.

    If you were able to argue that a reverse tactic was used against me by the enslaver, what would be the result? that I reverted back to the overstanding of my connection with my God before my people were enslaved. That because I was "tricked" into not buying into the belief of the christian jesus I did myself a diservice, I know better than that.

    There are some christians on this forum who would like non-christians to become born again, if you don't believe that then what would be the reason for them preaching the Gospel in the first place, if not to save their fellow man? So it is not neccesary to explicitly tell someone to do or die, the message is implicit. If you do not accept jesus as your saviour then you will not go to heaven. This is a the cornerstone for salvation. Everyone here knows this.

    The word non-believe must be qualifed, non-believing in what? the way you or other christians or muslims believe, or even hindus. This is why I say, that it would make more sense to say non-christian or non-bible believer. You yourself said you are a non-believer in evolution, so you had to qualify that by adding the word evolution. Right?
     
  6. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The break down


    Brother you know I have much respect for you so please take no offense in what I'm about say because it will be done in the interest of understanding why Black Christians are the way we are. First brother I hear you and many others ask how we can blindly believe without questioning what we place our faith in. Well brother we have questioned and recieved answers personally from our God. This is what make our faith so strong. You have heard me say this so many times but it's not what you know by way of books or tools of education it's what we feel that is more true than anything. Here are some questions: How could the God of African people forsake us in such a way that we could be conquered in such a way? As much as we honor our ancestors and worship our African God why did it not protect us in our hour of need. Also if our faith was so strong how could it have been broken and destroyed so easily? What use is it worshipping and praising a God that doesn't answer our cries when we need it? What did we ever do to cause our African God to ignore us and let us become defeated. If our African God is almighty than way do we give power to the "white man"? These are the question we Black Christians ask about our African traditional religions. Brother know that I have not been a Christian all my life. In fact I was raised with no faith and was one of the biggest critics of Christianity. Much of how I felt was similar to what many feel here. If we close the Bible I can tell you the God of the Bible and Christianity is real because God revealed Himself to me though His spirit. So brother I can say I am sold out with faith for the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ. let's say we are invaded and enslaved by some foreign people and are force to assimilate into their culture and way of life and they wanted us to serve a god other than the God we have a personal relationship with, I can say with certainty that I would rather die and let my family die and end my bloodline than serve another god. So if our traditions were so strong why would we not be will to die for them? How could our African God let foreigners come to our land and offer us some foreigner god. Now brother I know many stayed steadfast and died for our way of life but far to many had their spirits broken and began to serve a new master so to speak. Brother I can say it was the God of the Bible that delivered us from Jim Crow and slavery here in America. God also kept us and gave us victory during the civil rights struggle. Gospel music is the root of American music like Blues, Jazz, Swing, Ragtime, Country, Rock and Roll and R&B. So brother what many Black Christians feel is we may have worshipped in the African tradition but that was proven ineffective. So we feel we didn't turn our backs on our ancestrial spirit and God they turned their backs on us by letting European have his way with us. Brother this was intended to mock or belittle anyones faith but these are some issues as Black we have with our past lives.
     
  7. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    There was precedent in Africa before the western european arrived in the motherland, and our people "allowed" them to come there and help themselves to our treasure, mathematics and women. This was with the advent of the Arab. You can go back even further than that, when our people adopted the Gods and customs of the Romans. So the mistake of worshipping foreign Gods goes back at least 2000 years, and now we see the consequences of it today. The AFRICAN GOD/GODDESS DOES NOT TURN HIS BACK ON HIS PEOPLE, we turned OUR BACKS on she/he by putting down the ways of our ancestors. With all due respect you have it backwards.

    Our sages in Khemet(Egypt) predicted this outcome thousands of years ago, and some of our people have argued that the prophets of the Jews appropiated this into their religious doctrince called the old testament and Kaballah.

    Our people, including black christians, possess no armies, no educational infrastructure or hospitals, no insurance companies, children and adults infected with disease in epidemic proportions. Would our people be in a state of deliverance with conditions like this? NO, not at all brotha.

    You say delivered us from slavery and jim crow. Physical slavery is gone, but mental slavery and lack of knowledge of self is probably a worst affliction. Although Jim Crow may be gone, however discrimination exist in more insidious ways. What is interesting too is that for all the christians living in this country, christians have the most segregated churches in the country. This is no indictment on you my brotha, but it seems a little peculiar that the God you talk about has a flock so divided based on race. This is something that has not been resolved in 400 years.

    But getting back to the topic of this thread. With all the people that have died because of their refusal to embrace the cross, and the descendants of those who capitulated to your religion, why are so many of them catching hell? If some christians have the agenda to save souls, then why are so many christians still suffering in great numbers?
     
  8. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Radical I have a book you might be interested in reading. It's called "The Great Pyramid Decoded" by Peter Lemesurier. In the passage ways and chambers of the Great Pyramid, the dimensions are calculated as corresponding to biblical prophecies, including the birth of the man you know as Christ. All of this in stone.

    Mind you, it was our ancestors who designed this structure using the methods of sacred geometry among other disciplines. So how could we have been venerating and worshipping the wrong God and build structures like this. In fact there is no organized religion in existance today that has a legacy in stone or even wood like this.

    something to think about, not change your belief, but to connect the dots.
     
  9. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you brother for sharing. I will check out the reading material you suggested. Interesting you mentioned the measurements inside the Great Pyramid and Sacred Geometry. Here is some food for thought Charles Taze Russell founded a religion in which one of the doctrines was, based upon the measurements of the passageways inside the Great Pyramid he determined that Armageddon would come in the year 1914. Thousands of early follows gave away their belongings, postponed starting families and quit their jobs in anticipation of the end of the world. 1914 came and went and we are still here. This was one of the greatest false prophecies in history. I'll let you guess this religion.


    Peace
     
  10. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have no idea what religion you're talking about. and your point being what?
     
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