Black People : Difference Between Democracy and Freedom

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by river, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    We grew up thinking the American Revolutionaries were fighting for democracy. In truth, they feared democracy as much as they feared British rule. They understood that democracy and freedom are two different things.

    Hear the words of Benjamin Franklin:
    Of course, we know if the lamb's fleece is not as white as snow, he will be seen as a terrorist rather than a revolutionary.

    We could do a study on how and when democracy took hold in America. Such a study might reveal some interesting things about what we should and should not be fighting for.
     
  2. Hildegard von Krone

    Hildegard von Krone Banned MEMBER

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    Of course they are two different things: democracy is a political idea while freedom is a state of being. But they are very entwined so it is difficult to try to answer questions such as "Can you have freedom while living in a non-democratic state?".
     
  3. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    now that is interesting. So he defined it as being three aspects, two wolves and a lamb voting.
     
  4. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Democracy took hold in America in earnest around the 1920s.
    Democracy began to leak into the republican system here and there through various periods such as the Andrew Jackson administration and the U.S. Civil War.

    The form of government of the United States and of the several States is republican.

    The Framers hated democracy because they were a minority.
    The Framers were elites. Typically within a society, the elites are a minority.
    A republican form of government, in theory, protects the minority and individuals from groups.

    What the history books do not tell is that political societies such as States and federations were founded for the benefit of its members and none other.

    Think of Rome and the Twelve Tablets. The Twelve Tablets were for the benefit of its members and descendants (patricians). It's charter was forced to change due to political and social upheavals.

    Keep in mind during the creation of federal constitution, many States had property qualifications in addition to the elective franchise restricted to Caucasian men.
     
  5. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Democracy is a form of government.
    Democracy frequently devolves into "tyranny of the majority".

    Freedom is frequently wrapped up with political status or class.
     
  6. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    we are free to vote, now it is up to us to use, what so many of us of African descent do not have, and use ti to help them attain democracy not hypocracy, Malcolm said the Ballot or the Bullet, but in our romantic notions we forgot the political strategies and voting strategies he stressed and centered on the more romantic "Bullet" aspect without even utilizing the power of the vote to our potential , our unified black political agenda or our global political interests.



    The Bible is full of stories, stories that are metaphors to be apllied to many circumstances and issues;
    Politically and economcially are we not the Joseph with the coat of many colors, having the capacity to save our brothers, in the Motherland?
    The Afrikan American community must become vigilantly and jealously interested in U.S. and European policies toward Afrika and seek to influence those policies in both its own and Afrika's favor."
    http://www.africawithin.com/wilson/blueprint_for_black_power.htm


    Amos Wilson also said this;
    "The oppressed and downtrodden, having been traumatized by the abuse of power by their powerful oppressors, often come to perceive power itself as inherently evil, as by nature corrupting and therefore as something to be eschewed, denied and renounced.

    After what we see in Washington after casting our votes in 2008, do may of us now feel this way? And then feel this way about the entire election process and the power of the vote?
     
  7. Hildegard von Krone

    Hildegard von Krone Banned MEMBER

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    But that doesnt mean the minority is being oppressed. They can perfectly live in equal terms, just that their agendas wont take stride unless they become the majority. In which case the process just starts all over again.

    I agree; I think the average citizen is a slave to the system, which is ruled by how much money you have and whom do you mingle with.
     
  8. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    yes, I would absolutely believe that many now believe after the 2008 elections the abuse of power thus demonstrated as being 'inherently evil' and naturally causing corruption, and a result for some, it has become something to deny and renounce.

    I also read the other post and saw a break down on 'republican process' and etc. but I also remember how Benjamin Franklin and others were said to have copied the 'Iroquoise' and etc. in how they designed this system. I studied about the 12 tablets during the Rome-Etruscan period and etc., nevertheless, this system should not have attacked the 'Indians' and forced them onto reservations and take their land to set up their system and then deprive these First Nations people of their lands and natural resources just because they did not want to be apart of their government system. This government whether it is Republican, or democratic, punished the First Nations people for not totally giving up their souls and therefore, it really didn't matter how many of them sided with the europeans or not, they were completely 'done in' regardless. that is what I believe.

    ps. they set brother against brother even. I slightly remember a story in this regards amongs the Iroquoise concerning Joseph Brant, I think.
     
  9. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    European history doesn't support this.

    There is much I find agreeable with your aforementioned statements.
    If you join that society, your agendas will become submerged by the will of the majority.

    Citizen is a class of subject.
    There is difference between a slave and a citizen. The primary difference being a citizen has a capacity for legal rights and duties. A slave only has the capacity for duties.

    Both are species of servitude.
     
  10. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is called right of conquest and dominion.
    This is putting lipstick on the pig to obscure what it really is: might makes right.
     
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