Black Christians : Did Jesus Christ go from being 100% God, to 100% man and BACK to 100% God?

Discussion in 'Christian Study Group' started by Eccl 12vs13, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. Eccl 12vs13

    Eccl 12vs13 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Readers.....there are some that have been taught that Jesus was both 100% God AND 100% man when born of Mary.


    Readers......that doctrine is 100% FALSE!


    Let's use every word and ALL scriptures to come up with a biblical answer for the question asked. ALL of the words of God are to be used for reproof AND correction. This is where we are to get our doctrine;

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"


    So let's begin.....at the beginning;



    John 1
    [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God.
    [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


    So in the beginning was the Word. And whoever this Word was, He was with another being who was a God and He was also a God Himself. Well.....let's find out just who is this one that is called the Word....



    [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


    Ok....NOW we have some information we can work with. Whoever this person was that was called the Word, went from being God to being made flesh. Let's find more information on this one called the Word.



    John 3
    [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


    Col.1
    [13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
    [16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Heb.1
    [1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


    And just to further confirm...let's not forget what else was said about the one called the Word;

    "...All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    "...by whom also he made the worlds..."


    So now we have proved exactly who the one called the Word is; It is Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the God that became known as God the Father. Jesus Christ was the one that created everything that was made.


    Before proving that Jesus Christ was 100% flesh and blood man when born of Mary....let's first prove that He was 100% God BEFORE being born of Mary.



    Jesus Christ: 100% God in the beginning!


    John 17
    [5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus was God and shared the glory with the one that became known as God the Father before there was a world.


    Phil.2
    [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


    Jesus was an equal with the one that became known as God the Father.


    And finally;


    John 1
    [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Jesus was a God with the one known as God the Father in the beginnig.


    Now that we know that the Word is Jesus Christ and that He was a God in the beginning....let's define just what this flesh is that Jesus became.



    Jesus Christ: 100% Flesh and blood Man.

    Isa.31
    [3] Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.

    God makes a distinction above. Horses are NOT spirit...they are flesh. Let's continue with our search....


    Gen.6
    [12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
    [13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
    [17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
    [19] And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

    So not only are Horses flesh....but everything that God made that breaths upon this earth is also flesh.


    Gen.7
    [21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

    So man too is considered a flesh being. And we also know that flesh is NOT spirit and is NOT God. So what is God? Let's read....


    John 4
    [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    And what did the scriptures tell us the Word was BEFORE coming in the flesh?; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    And let's confirm again what Jesus was in the beginning....

    Phil.2
    [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


    Now we are getting to see a difference. God's word tells us that man is flesh and blood and that God is a Spirit. Jesus was God in the beginning and then was born flesh and blood man. It is becoming clear that God, a spirit being is NOT the same as man, a flesh and blood being. Let's find out more about spirits....

    Heb.1
    [7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?



    So now we know that angels too are spirits. So angelic beings are of the same family as God. BOTH are spirit beings, as opposed to man, flesh beings. Let's confirm this with scripture....

    1 Cor.15
    [35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

    So the question is asked, "What type of body will those that raise from the dead will have?". Let's find out...



    [39] All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

    Now we already know what flesh beings are from reading Gen. chap's 6 & 7. And above we read the same thing. There are different types of flesh...but ALL of the above are flesh beings. Let's continue.....

    [40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


    And now we find that there is a difference between a flesh being and a spirit being.

    [42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    [43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


    When man is born of woman he is born a flesh being and man then dies. When man is raised he will no longer have a flesh and blood body, he will no longer be a flesh being.....he will be a spirit being. Man is born a flesh being but will be raised as a spirit being. Once this happens, man will have been born into the family of God, he will be as God...a spirit being. Let's continue. Let's find why Jesus came to this earth....

    Heb.2
    [5] For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
    [6] But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    [7] Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

    Above we find that man was made just a little lower than the angels. Was there any other that was made just as man....made lower than the angels? Let's read...



    Heb.2
    [9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    Phil.2
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


    Now a greater picture is coming together. We find that Jesus was born NOT as a spirit being, for He, just as man, was made lower that the angels. Jesus was born of a woman. Jesus did NOT take on the spirit nature of angels, but was born as a flesh and blood being just as you and I. And why did Jesus have to take the form of a flesh and blood being? The scripture already told us; "...for the suffering of death...", "...And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

    Think about this for a moment..... God is a spirit being. Angels are spirit beings. Can a mortal man kill a spirit being? Can mortal man kill a God? Spirit beings CANNOT die. That is why God had to make a place called hell for their punishment. You cannot kill a spirit being. Let's continue to read and see how Jesus went from flesh and blood to spirit.


    Here is a description of Jesus BEFORE His death...

    1 John 5
    [6] This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

    1 Pet.4
    [1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


    And now a description of Him after His death but BEFORE becoming a spirit being....


    Luke 24
    [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Above we find that Jesus was yet a flesh and blood being AFTER His resurrection. With His own words He tells us He had not been made into a spirit being, for He still had a flesh body, something He tells us a spirit being does not have. At this point He had not ascended to heaven, the dwelling place of the Father.




    Jesus Christ: Back to 100% God!



    When Jesus ascended to the Father as our redeemer He was made a spirit being once again. Let's read what Jesus asked of the Father

    John 17
    [5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus asked to be as He was with the Father before the world was. And what was Jesus before the world? What was Jesus in the beginning? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    Jesus was God!


    And what is God? "God is a Spirit:..."

    Christ was made a spirit being before entering into heaven. He had to, hence the scriptures;

    1 Cor.15
    [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    Jesus could not enter heaven with a flesh and blood body. Something that He clearly tells us He had above in Luke 24:39. So sometime after His resurrection BUT before entering heaven, God the Father granted Jesus request; "glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

    Jesus had to go through the same transformation that each and every one of us hope and pray for. Jesus had to be 'born again'!



    Spirit beings are not made up of the same substance as flesh and blood beings. Why is knowing this important? Because in order for mans sins to be forgiven BLOOD HAD TO BE SHED! And that is why Jesus came to this earth. To shed His blood for the remission of sins. Had Jesus been a 100% spirit being He would not have been able to accomplish what He came to do. Had Jesus been 100% God how would He have been able to save mankind? Something HAD to die to save mankind of his sins! And God cannot die! Only flesh and blood beings die....Jesus was just that; flesh and blood.

    Let's review...


    - Jesus was God in the beginning. John 1:1
    - Jesus was then born flesh and blood of a woman. Luke 1:35, John 3:16-18
    - Flesh and blood beings are NOT spirit beings. Isa. 31:3
    - God and the angels are spirit beings. John 4:24, Heb. 1:7&14
    - Flesh and blood beings are not made of the same substance as spirit beings. 1 John 5:6, Luke 24:39
    - Jesus and man were made lower than the angels. Heb. 2:7&9
    - Jesus took on the nature of man for the suffering of death. Heb. 2:9
    - Jesus asked to be as He was in the beginning. John 17:5
    - Jesus was born with a spirit body before entering heaven. 1 Cor.15:45-46, 50
    - God is a spirit. John 4:24
    - Jesus is now God, a spirit being as He was in the beginning. John 1:1

    Now let's read of those that do NOT believe Jesus Christ was born of Mary as 100% man...


    1 John 4
    [2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    [3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2 John 1
    [7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Jesus was 100% flesh and blood man when born of Mary!


    Jesus Christ; from 100% God, to 100% Flesh and Blood man, to 100% God...... again!


    .
     
  2. KNEWTRUTH

    KNEWTRUTH Active Member MEMBER

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    The Son of Man said that "THE FATHER IS >GREATER< THAN Him = 2 Different persons. The Son of Man said that "IF YOU DENIED HIM BEFORE MAN, THAT HE WOULD DENY YOU BEFORE THE FATHER" = again 2 different persons.
     
  3. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That's not two "different" persons. They are the same, They are one. Some just have trouble understanding their oneness and think the Son was stating He was the Father, but He was stating He is one with the Father, as His faithful are one with The Father and Son, also.

    But as a note, I saw you said you were not Christian, and that you don't believe in and accept the truth of the Bible, and since this is the Christian sub-forum, it'd be best you didn't post here starting any disputes. It could get you into trouble.
     
  4. Eccl 12vs13

    Eccl 12vs13 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Father (a God) and the Son, also (a God), are NOT one in the same, but are TWO seperate beings!

    There is ONLY one place in the bible where Jesus explains just how He and the Father are one...and He does NOT say that are one in the same.

    Search your bible......the answer is there!

    .
     
  5. KNEWTRUTH

    KNEWTRUTH Active Member MEMBER

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  6. KNEWTRUTH

    KNEWTRUTH Active Member MEMBER

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    the bible in its english translations leave many things about the truth misunderstood. the term bible comes from the greek translation, but that is not the original language that the original righteous scriptures were written.

    christianity is a byproduct of the many tamperings that are being done to the righteous scriptures. the truth of THE FATHERS WORDS are still there, but if you really do not study to show yourself approved and search THE WORD as though you are looking for hidden treasure; you'll always see the christian overlay which augments and hides the truth...

    There are many folks that say the Bible contradicts it self, but do not put forth a diligent righteous effort to ever understand why! THE RIGHTEOUS SCRIPTURES ARE A True AFRICAN HISTORY BOOK OF RECORDS. that aint got nothing to do with christianity, jesus, etc. THAT IS WHAT YOUR ENEMIES WANT THE WORLD TO BELIEVE...

    But don't take my statement as the truth. Because the righteous truth is only given to those who righteously seek it out for themselves... The straight and narrow way isn't often found: Because There Are Few Who Are Actually Looking In The Right Place...
     
  7. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Again, if you aren't Christian, you shouldn't be posting in this forum with disagreement regarding the bible. This forum isn't for that.
     
  8. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    They are the same, they are one. Please read my statements correctly. I didn't say, one in the same, but one, and also, the same.
     
  9. KNEWTRUTH

    KNEWTRUTH Active Member MEMBER

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    Unless your built to do something about my sharing: mind your manners... I'm not a child and you are not my governor.

    Because what i'm sharing is the foundation from which christianity was fabricated. Therefore I can share as much as THE FATHER endows me to. You didn't even start the thread and the person who did has not addressed me with disapproval. So be about your business elsewhere.
     
  10. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    O...I just luv it when you point out the obvious...:luv:

    Peace!
     
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