Black Spirituality Religion : Did Abraham Exist?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Blackbird, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I looked at the Christianity forum's thread about the sons of Abraham started by CherryBlossom and my interest was piqued. So many things rests on the whether there was a historical Abraham or not and who he was as a person. Certainly, we know he was a religious figure, but little about him as a historical personage - and for so much stuff to rest on this man, I think it's fair to say we need to know more about his actual identity. In that vein, I know we have went down this road a few times but I was wondering what evidence we have that conclusively supports or refutes his existence.

    So my questions are can we conclusively say:

    1. Abraham did or did not exist. Why or why not? (The million dollar question - at least for Black folks)


    2. Around what time frame did Abraham exist? Circa?
    3. What was Abraham's ethnicity?
    4. What was his historical point of origin or geographical origin?
    5. What was his ancestral national affiliation?
    6. What societal class, if any, did he belong to?
    7. What motivated him to migrate westward?
    8. What other historical or cultural events happened or occurred to allow us a better understanding of this Biblical figure?


    Of course questions 2-8 are predicated on proving that Abraham did indeed exist which would answer question 1.

    Tuhwi
     
  2. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ok, I see we got some bashful people around here. Most of you probably think it's another of Blackbird's loaded guns and refuse to respond even if you're itching to. That's fine. Indeed, I have my take - of course. Yet, I believe a comprehensive treatment about this matter is due for the benefit of others to come to a more informed decision.

    Tuhwi
     
  3. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Surely our most well informed and historically conscious Bible people are going to answer you. I know that they wouldn't miss out on the opportunity to answer your question for 30 pieces of silver!...cause I too am waiting....but I think they know that too! I guess in the end it's going to come down to "Faith vs. Facts" but I can handle that too.:whip::whip::whip:
     
  4. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Elder Brother,

    I believe your guess is absolutely right. In order for our people to heal, it HAS to come down to "Faith vs. Facts" and exposing the usefulness of one over the other.

    Tuhwi
     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Abraham?

    i'm not even sure that I exist.:ghost:
    i could use that piece of silver about now though.
     
  6. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    LOL.... I got ya...
     
  7. Onyemobi

    Onyemobi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    According to Charles Pope, the real identity of the Biblical Abrahah was the 18th Dynasty Egyptian King Djehuty:

    http://www.domainofman.com/book/chap-13.html

    Reading in between the lines of the scriptures, it would appear that Abraham was a Sumerian. The place where his story begins was Ur, which was a city of Sumer.
     
  8. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Thank you, Brother Blackbird for starting this separate topic.

    I thank you for respecting the Christianity sub-forum by voicing and outlining your views/questions here in the open discussion forum and not as a challenge to Christians to defend or explain why we believe the Bible as God's Word.

    I thank you for providing this venue for others to denounce, renounce, or disagree with Abraham's existence and any subsequent effect he did or did not have upon present-day belief systems.

    Again, I so sincerely thank you for allowing me, as a Christian, to have my voice in the Christianity sub-forum while you and others have your voice here.
     
  9. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Well, Keita, I, too, for your sake, hope that the "well-informed and historically conscious Bible people" come in here to address this topic.

    That way, you will have someone to converse with and debate.

    However, for me, there is no debate. OBVIOUSLY, I have stated my position when I posted the "Sons Of Abraham" thread which prompted/preceded this one.

    And, again, I must thank Brother Blackbird for respecting my beliefs and the rules of the Study Forum by starting this separate topic for any others such as yourself who may also be "confused" and "amazed."


    But, I am neither. I am firm in my assurance. So, this topic has no interest for me. I don't have to "show and prove" anything.

    But, I do wish you a lively discussion with any other "well-informed and historically conscious Bible people" who choose to engage you.
     
  10. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sister Cherryblossom,

    I respect your right to refrain from this discussion, but I will say your input will be sorely missed. Why? Because you so passionately believe what you do about Abraham. Yes, it does make for a votile cocktail, but at least you can detail for the benefit of others why you feel the way you do - that includes me.

    Of course, I am of the crowd that honestly doesn't have a solid opinion of whether Abraham existed or not. Now I will state, since you and I haven't had many run-ins regarding biblical issues, that if Abraham or a people designated as Abraham did exist I am of the opinion that they were not African or they were influenced by Indo-European thought. I will let that cat out the bag and that belief is partly due to my understanding, based on my academic background, of the Bible. So even in discussion with me, there are always opportunities to highlight why you believe the way you do. It's not really "show and prove", but more so educating.

    Again this discussion is pivotal for alot of reasons; it is not something trivial to bash Christians about because it could possibly be that those who think otherwise can not muster enough to refute what Christian people are saying.

    Lay it on the table - anyone who knows me knows I embrace many controversial stances, oftimes unpopular stances - and they know I am not a Christian, that I believe all Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are illegitimate systems for people of African descent to espouse and only serve to uproot us from our actual history and culture. I will put it out there - yet, if anything for those who know me more personally - I am not enmeshed or bethrothed to any particular ideology, be it religious, political or cultural. I advocate knowing the truth based on the circumstances. I think we all should be truth tellers and truth supporters. Thus, all said, your participation will be missed.

    Tuhwi (one who is not beholden to anything except that that will assist Black people in our journey home)
     
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