Jails / Prisons : Debtors Prison?

Discussion in 'Law Forum - Prisons - Gun Ownership' started by Kemetstry, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I appeared before a judge, not a magistrate.
    it was a federal court.
    I guess it was a court of justice, there was a court reporter.
    I learned about hiring a court reporter when I fought for my children, and had to pay alot of cash to get them. I learned this on my own research, and hired a court reporter for every court session because if I had not, then I would have never been able to appeal to the higher courts. My dirty attorney didn't tell me that, but I had to operated around him, and I did it myself.

    no, I was not in an administrative proceeding, I was in a court of law. I appealed to get out of that arm and did everything through the federal court. Now, had I not done my own research, I would have stayed within the administrative arm, but I learned that based on the nature of my case, I had the right to take it to a federal court.
     
  2. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you so much for your comment. Yes, I am so grateful to God for letting me live and get my sons back when they were still young because there were times that had it not been for God, I would have died. I remember one time, I had to be taken to the emergency room, . . . and I yelled so long, that I blew my eardrum and was completely deaf for about six weeks. I still can't believe it happened to me, I never saw it coming. There was no obvious warning to me where I knew my mother would have done what she did. i guess, I was blinded because...she was my mother?

    I still cannot bring myself to talk to my mother but, I have definitely corresponded to her replies as she finally contacted me by letter years later around the time my sons graduated from high school. Prior to that, she would do other things that let me know, she was still not acting normal. She would contact certain members of the extended family and she played games like that to agitate people who testified on my behalf. She tried to retaliate against people and blamed them for helping me to get my kids back and press them to call me and they would then call me and try to convince me to call her and give into her demands. But when she finally wrote me, I replied back to her cordially and respectfully.

    It's a balancing act. I have to walk a tight rope and operate between a narrow road when it comes to my mother, and I do what ever i can to maintain this balance for the sake of my children because I feel like they would have a hard time dealing with me as their mother due to what my mother did to them and to me and their father. One major thing I try to keep in mind is after Jesus turned the water into wine, he got the hell out of dodge!--He left town so that he would not be exploited by his own mother to do her will and not God's will. So, I try my best to keep my distance from my mother and keep some miles between us...even though she has been still pursuing me to some degree! And the other major thing I do for the sake of my kids is that I strongly believe in 'laughter therapy'!

    My sons are still affected by what happened to them, and sometimes I can tell when they get angry about something, their actions are related to that issue. So, what I do to help them is that I think of something positive about my mother even when I was young, and I share it with them in a comical way. And because we had to go to therapy during the court process in order to get into court and have a running chance to get them back, I took the advice of the therapist. One therapist would at first interview my one son, and then after awhile, she called me into session with him. Then she would get my son going on his experience when he was compelled to live under my mother, and 'Oh Man!'... WHEW! . . . He had me and the therapist laughing at some of the crap my mother and my family did in his presence. Kids are like tape recorders... My son woulld get so angry as he was talking...his face would be so tight, ... like he wanted to fight somebody... and he would mimic my family's mannerisms, and Man!--I never seen a White woman laugh so hard in my life!

    The therapist would sometimes stop my son in mid sentence, and she called his name and asked him 'Was it true, did my mother really do those things he was acting out?'-- And my sons eyes woulld get bigger and he would say YES!--And then he would start up again going on about the hell my mother and family put him through. The therapist would be laughing so hard, she was sometimes have to stand up and bend over, to try and stop laughing. My family is a fricking trip! The therapist told me to let him vent but try to stop him after about ten minutes. So I would do this so my son would hopefully get over the trauma. Sometimes we would be in the restaurant and he would get going,...and then sometimes my husband would get going, and Man!...I would have a hard time stopping my son when he gets going because my mother put that man through hell. My sons had problems coping with certain things in school and etc. because of what my mother did to them. I was always down at the schools trying to block them from being put in remedial classes, and flunking out and etc. It was a mess. That same therapist had to help me fight against the school because they tried to say that one of my sons was ADD and needed drugs and to be tested and stuff like that.

    I was always in meeting or what not. The therapist got just as angry as I did when i told her and she called down at the school and told them off. She wrote a letter for me and told me to contact her if they had any other issues. She said there was nothing wrong with mys on. Another therapist, a Black woman had to help to. And she got angry to. She said if anything, my sons were above average kids. She said they learned how to cope with trauma and knew how to filter out things that were too hard for them to endure and it cause some people to think they off but in fact, they were brilliant.

    But I came to realize one of the best medicines for them was what i decided to term; 'laugther therapy', in which I would think of something positive to say about my mother or something comical and this allowed them to vent and have the right to hate what she did, but not waste their time on hating her, because she didn't get the victory. But because of what she actually did to me and my immediate family, I am guarded. I love her, but I don't trust her anymore.

    edited.
     
  3. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Wow! What an experience. I wish other women would share their experiences like this because it would help so much to know the obstacles a woman os faced with when trying to raise and care for kids after being abandoned and left to 'carry the load by themselves'. Maybe if enough woman in this circumstance would share their stories, then we might be able to see some kind of pattern as to why, ultimately, the kids are the ones hurt the most in the process of trying to tear down the mother. Based on just the little stories that I've heard, it seems like some men get so angry, they want to destroy the mother, or punish her by giving child support money but only to the kids and not the mother. It's as if they want to put the mother in some kind of delapitaded shed and cause her to only be able to have one ugly dress and eat only grits, while the kids get to live in the house across the yard, and have access to the child support money. But if they can't knock down the mother and bar her from having money, then the men just throw away the kids with the mother too. But on the other hand, especially when there are sons involved in the break up, it seems like the courts work in favor of the mother, in the hope of totally destroying the father.

    As you said, it is his job to raise his sons to be men, but how can he hold his head up if the courts jailed him seven times!? It just doesn't add up. In my opinion, the jail is suppose to punish the father for not paying child support, but it should not prevent the man from being able to get a job to do so. It seems like if he is jailed, then it should be during that time that the courts set it up for a man to get a job that can actually pay enough money for the man to live and pay that child support. But I believe this system works against the Black man 24/7 and they might block the woman from seeing that they don't want that man to actually get the right kind of job of which really means that the courts are working hard against the woman too and don't want the woman to get the amount of money she really needs to raise the kids. The courst are working against the family as a whole, to divide and conquer. They play the woman against the man and the man against the woman but in the end, if the man is struck down, then ultimately the family is dealt a terrible blow and that, I believe is what the courts want to happen. And again, when there are sons involved, that is when it hurts the most.

    No matter what, sons will always by nature identify with their father, so if the father is struck down, the sons might never want the mother [you] to know it and they might try to hide their feelings from you, but there is no way that they can not internalize it. if they see their father as a failure, they will be hurt on the inside so hopefully there is something positive that you will allow them to cherish about their father so that they can feel good about themselves. Hopefully you will let them hate the things that he has done wrong, but not hate him. Even though I'm married, i go through what you wrote about too sometimes. I was the one going down to the schools fightin for my sons, while their father blew it off, and when they became successful... here comes that negro...their father...wantin to claim the frickn victory. Man! that burns me up, and to top it off, my sons sometimes want to give him all the credit!--You talk about somebody on the roof! Me! I be on the roof! They put their mother on the roof! But after awhile, I just calm down, and realize that eventually they will come around to the truth, but I recognize that their feelings are so tied to their father. It's nature. But sometimes, I just want to put my boxn gloves on and go to town on my husband.

    I remember one time, I saw my younger son at school and he was so angry at what had been done to him, and I turned to my husband to go help him, and he didn't do anything. So I went and ... jump on the stage and told that teacher a thing or two, then the next day, i went to the principle and who came to my aid!? . . . the other two vice principles of whom both were Black men. They were angry, and took my side and confronted the principle for me... and I got the victory for my son...and my husband realized that he was wrong and admitted it to me. I came to realize that sometimes, God sends other men to help a man see his errors and therefore, I try to calm down and let God handle his own creation. But, I try not to knock my husband down for his errors [as much as I can] because I'm telling you, sometimes my sons are hard to handle and I just don't know what I would do if I didn't have a man to counteract some of that incredible energy young men can sometimes exhibit. I try to give my sons a chance to have a free spirit, but Man!--it has to be channelled sometimes, and I have to get help. Sometimes when they get going, I cant control them and i be running for their father...and he gets the job done! They do not play with their father when he gets going, so I said all of this to say, that I hope your two oldest sons will be able to respect both you and their father. You are definitely blessed to have three sons though and have been able to raise them in spite of the hardships you've been put through. But I don't think it's over yet. You are still going to hurt for not getting the financial help you deserved to get to raise them because it was not fair, and your sons are always going to think about that and have to deal with that in their minds. They are going ot have some resentment for not having some things they needed when they were young, like my sons do now too. And they are going to place the blame somewhere and go back and forth between just who to blame for awhile. But the courts know that if they keep jailing a father, they are going to stop him one way or another. It's is wrong to emasculate a man in front of his sons. It's as if they want to punish a Black man for having children. A Black man in America has got to fight. period. and They have to win...for their sons...
     
  4. MsVeraisblessed

    MsVeraisblessed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    No matter what we we do as parents, we do with courage, love, patience and understanding...
     
  5. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    so true.

    But as hard as it was for me and still is, my heart goes out to woman , mothers, who have been abandoned [financially and etc.] by the children's fathers. What an endurance...

    and my heart goes out to Black men who are are accountable for their children because this system is not in their favor.
     
  6. Kemetstry

    Kemetstry going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ok, we have gone off topic. This is about even if you do all that and lose, you can go to jail


    ..
     
  7. Kemetstry

    Kemetstry going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    bot


    ..
     
  8. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Great Discussion Family!

    The best thing for young women and men that don't have children, is to be very careful partaking in activities that can make them!

    Once the baby is conceived, born, all of that ... you gotta hope that you and the other parent get along forever ... else it's gonna be problems!

    So just go ahead and maintain control of that ... while you have control of it ... before any babies are conceived / born!

    Love You and Thanks Everyone For Sharing!

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  9. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    DEBTORS PRISON...

    I thought about this very thread when i just saw this article on Yahoo News yesterday. According to this artical DEBT PRISON is back and is being practiced by several state governments. They are getting around the old federal law in 1830s or so, by giving people court dates, and then picking them up, handcuffing them, and jailing them, for not appearing in court about their fines. Companies who sue will notify, and if the person doesn't go to court or etc., they are jailed, and in essence, it is the same as DEBTORS PRISON because they are in actuality being jailed for the debt. If they are being jailed for not appearing for A CIVIL MATTER, meaning debt, it doesn't matter, it is still wrong, but that is what this American System is allowing.

    If you sue someone for a civil matter, how can it turn CRIMINAL for not appearing in court if in fact, it should be a civil matter and handled in a civil court. In my mind then all those people who lost their homes and etc. and could not pay their bills could be sued and end up in prison...

    Anyway, here's the link to the article. In one case it says that a woman who was treated for cancer owed the hospital bill $280.00, and she was jailed.



    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html


    Like I said, I believe that this government is currently undergoing a change over, a transition, and are now going after their own citizens. It seems like it is becoming a militant system and setting up a plot and only a few people, such as politicians, wealthy, and select leaders from other countries know about it.
     
  10. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Actually, it is better to be in a court of law and not an administrative court.

    A court of record is to your advantage so long as you know how to make the record.

    The mistake, in my opinion, is hiring the attorney
    If you can lose, you can lose all the same sans the attorney and saving yourself a few thousand dollars, right?

    At least that is my reasoning.
     
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