Jails / Prisons : Debtors Prison?

[Destee]

No one should shirk their obligations. Honor your obligations, of course.

But on the other hand, don't let the system railroad you which is what the vast majority of people allow through their own actions at at their own hand.
Furthermore, this government and its courts are supposed to be your courts, yet most people understand not how their courts work.

Here is an idea: how about one learns to conduct their own affairs in court rather than delegating it to some fiduciary whose allegiance to his pocketbook or his court friends could be of greater value in his or her mind than your rights and interests?

A little education goes a very long way ....

African-American males in particular have a disproportionate likelihood of being within a court in one manner or another.
How about learning what its really all about so you can put up an intelligent defense by yourself and not participate in your own railroading?

I absolutely agree again! In fact, i think i've started a thread about Jailhouse Lawyers!

Brothers are often shown demonstrating great legal skill, study, and expertise ... after the fact ... while locked in their prisons!

Some are so good, the prisons appoint them as legal counsel to other inmates, or some such carrying on!

It's just a tad bit late at that point though, and if we could get Brothers to put that kind of energy in, prior to being locked up ... man oh man!

I absolutely believe in our ability to do all things better, or at the very least, as well as anyone else!

All we gotta do is want it.

Love You and Thanks Again!



Destee

 

[Shikamaru]

Yes ... i absolutely agree ... we must beat them at their own game, oftentimes with them changing the rules as they go.

What a challenge, but i think we can do it!

I wanna tag along !!! ... lol @ tag ... Shikamaru ... pick me pick me!

Thank you so much for sharing!

Much Love and Peace.



Destee

I'll send you an IM sometime today. Let me know when you have time and I'll introduce you to some very unique individuals .

My interest in law is primarily financial. Bringing law and finance together is one of the keys of wealth, in my opinion. I arrived at this conclusion studying the framers of the Constitution as well as the colonial elites during that time period.

 

[Chevron Dove]

No.... you think you know how it really is and go along with being railroaded.

How about you try something different?
How about ditching the attorney who ain't going to do a hills beans worth for you?
How about you actually study the rules of civil and court procedure, so that you know how the rules are played AND you can play to win?
How about you study the nature of due process to learn what obligations the court system has to you AND how to hold their feet to the fire when they break their obligation to you?
How about learning to compose your own court documents?
How about learning how to speak to the court in order to make a special appearance, challenge standing of the counterparty, or how to move court in your favor?

I know... RADICAL stuff, right?

I study and work differently than what people believe and the results are proof in themselves.
I also work with not one but, two teams of people who study this stuff and their results are proof in themselves.

Don't be so quick to give up the fight until you know what the rules truly are and what options are available.

But of course, don't take my word for it. Do a little legal research on the terms I presented. Start with the birth certificate. I'll give you a head start.... begin with the resources American Jurisprudence (Am. Jur.) and Corpus Juris Secundum (C.J.S.).

You are more than welcome to tag along with me to meet these teams online, but be warned, they are a wild bunch .

You just might start thinking, acting, and conducting your affairs differently than by mere beliefs....

Wow! this is some interesting stuff you wrote. I found the post about 'birth certificate' status between of the governmenter versus the parent was riveting, scary, and I believe what you wrote.

although I've never had to deal with 'child support' issues in regards to going into courts to get money from my children's father, but I did have to deal with it and I tell you, this system is set up to protect themselves and to get money in the process no matter what, and I say this based upon my experience, so although I agree with what you wrote about getting better educated on 'the court process', I still believe that the system is set up to collect money from their 'court process' no matte what.

In regards to this thread, the courts are designed to put people in a debtors prison, not only for 'child support' issues but other issues too. So I beleive based upon my experience with the courts, if you dont have an outside solution to combat the money the courts will pin you to as being a debt, then you will become homeless, and completely dependent upon bread lines and food lines at their agencies. My situation was crazy and involved a law that has been changed now, 'grandmother visitation law' and because my mother was a social service worker and friends with the judge, my human rights were completely violated. to this day, I really don't know the motives of my mother, but my father [of whom she divorced] said that she went after me because she was tormented and wanted sons. I don't know.

I was later yelled at by attorney's who told me that I should have acted sooner and recognized that my mohter had 'kidnapped' my children, but I don't know. I would take them over to her for a visit and when I came to pick them up at the time appointed on three occasions, she was gone...until 2:00 am on a school weekday and later was told that she had set me up in order take them from me. Because the pediatrician, the school principle and etc. fuss at me due to them being sleepy in school and etc., I stopped taking them to visit her and then she filed for grandmother visitation. the judge told me that day on friday I hd to turn my kids over to their grandmother that next day, Saturday, for 'unsupervised visits' for 4 hours, and this was to occur 'every saturday'! I freaked out [inside] but calmly told the judge 'no, I want to make an appeal', the judge told me 'no you can't'. then I told her 'okay, well I'm teling you right now, I'm not gonna do it'...Well, you know where that landed me...IN JAIL!!!...for about 45 minutes, and then I was released. My husband was freaking out, because it happened so fast, and he too was jailed right along with me. At any rate, the courts pursued me still, and eventually took our kids under other allegations and only because I got help, I was able to get back into court and prove them wrong. How can you take kids and keep them for three years without EVER GETTING PEDIATRICIAN RECORDS!!? My attorney freaked out on that court and finally all of the allegations became 'FALSE ALLEGATIONS' but after we were dragged through the court, the courts pursued us for 'CHILD SUPPORT'!

Our wages were garnished for years because my mother filed for 'foster care' while she had our kids and we had to pay it back to the courts, and there was no attorney that would help us to get back into the courts to get restitution. Okay so I say based on my experience, the courts are set up as the house that always wins, no matter what. They collect money. period. And when they are wrong, they still keep the money, and no lawyer will help a Black African American get back into courts to get restitution. The courts totally KIDNAPPED MY KIDS, charged us for it, and only because i was able to get into their courts [which cost tens of thousands of dollars] and prove them wrong, I got my kids back. The courts took 'my custody rights', and 'my parenting rights', barred me from my kids completely for three years until they sifted me like wheat and had to give them back. Because of that experience, I used all of my money to fight for my kids, and could not pay back my ohter debts and therefore, I am in debt [debtors prison] to this very day. The house always wins.

This system is unfair.

edited.

 

[Shikamaru]

Wow! this is some interesting stuff you wrote. I found the post about 'birth certificate' status between of the governmenter versus the parent was riveting, scary, and I believe what you wrote.

Challenge me .
Verify if what I wrote is true. See it for yourself in black and white from their resources.

although I've never had to deal with 'child support' issues in regards to going into courts to get money from my children's father, but I did have to deal with it and I tell you, this system is set up to protect themselves and to get money in the process no matter what, and I say this based upon my experience, so although I agree with what you wrote about getting better educated on 'the court process', I still believe that the system is set up to collect money from their 'court process' no matte what.

In regards to this thread, the courts are designed to put people in a debtors prison, not only for 'child support' issues but other issues too. So I beleive based upon my experience with the courts, if you dont have an outside solution to combat the money the courts will pin you to as being a debt, then you will become homeless, and completely dependent upon bread lines and food lines at their agencies. My situation was crazy and involved a law that has been changed now, 'grandmother visitation law' and because my mother was a social service worker and friends with the judge, my human rights were completely violated. to this day, I really don't know the motives of my mother, but my father [of whom she divorced] said that she went after me because she was tormented and wanted sons. I don't know.

I was later yelled at by attorney's who told me that I should have acted sooner and recognized that my mohter had 'kidnapped' my children, but I don't know. I would take them over to her for a visit and when I came to pick them up at the time appointed on three occasions, she was gone...until 2:00 am on a school weekday and later was told that she had set me up in order take them from me. Because the pediatrician, the school principle and etc. fuss at me due to them being sleepy in school and etc., I stopped taking them to visit her and then she filed for grandmother visitation. the judge told me that day on friday I hd to turn my kids over to their grandmother that next day, Saturday, for 'unsupervised visits' for 4 hours, and this was to occur 'every saturday'! I freaked out [inside] but calmly told the judge 'no, I want to make an appeal', the judge told me 'no you can't'. then I told her 'okay, well I'm teling you right now, I'm not gonna do it'...Well, you know where that landed me...IN JAIL!!!...for about 45 minutes, and then I was released. My husband was freaking out, because it happened so fast, and he too was jailed right along with me. At any rate, the courts pursued me still, and eventually took our kids under other allegations and only because I got help, I was able to get back into court and prove them wrong. How can you take kids and keep them for three years without EVER GETTING PEDIATRICIAN RECORDS!!? My attorney freaked out on that court and finally all of the allegations became 'FALSE ALLEGATIONS' but after we were dragged through the court, the courts pursued us for 'CHILD SUPPORT'!

Our wages were garnished for years because my mother filed for 'foster care' while she had our kids and we had to pay it back to the courts, and there was no attorney that would help us to get back into the courts to get restitution. Okay so I say based on my experience, the courts are set up as the house that always wins, no matter what. They collect money. period. And when they are wrong, they still keep the money, and no lawyer will help a Black African American get back into courts to get restitution. The courts totally KIDNAPPED MY KIDS, charged us for it, and only because i was able to get into their courts [which cost tens of thousands of dollars] and prove them wrong, I got my kids back. The courts took 'my custody rights', and 'my parenting rights', barred me from my kids completely for three years until they sifted me like wheat and had to give them back. Because of that experience, I used all of my money to fight for my kids, and could not pay back my ohter debts and therefore, I am in debt [debtors prison] to this very day. The house always wins.

This system is unfair.

edited.

I will review this later and comment. Thank-you for your testimonial.

 

[Shikamaru]

although I've never had to deal with 'child support' issues in regards to going into courts to get money from my children's father, but I did have to deal with it and I tell you, this system is set up to protect themselves and to get money in the process no matter what, and I say this based upon my experience, so although I agree with what you wrote about getting better educated on 'the court process', I still believe that the system is set up to collect money from their 'court process' no matte what.

Governments are corporations. Did you know that? Special corporations, but corporations none the less. Feel free to ask me from where I got that .
Just as with any corporation, government needs revenue. That revenue comes from such areas as taxes as well as the "administration of justice" i.e. courts.

In regards to this thread, the courts are designed to put people in a debtors prison, not only for 'child support' issues but other issues too. So I beleive based upon my experience with the courts, if you dont have an outside solution to combat the money the courts will pin you to as being a debt, then you will become homeless, and completely dependent upon bread lines and food lines at their agencies. My situation was crazy and involved a law that has been changed now, 'grandmother visitation law' and because my mother was a social service worker and friends with the judge, my human rights were completely violated. to this day, I really don't know the motives of my mother, but my father [of whom she divorced] said that she went after me because she was tormented and wanted sons. I don't know.

I do have solutions concerning debt.
For starters, debtors' prisons have been abolished as of the 19th century.
Debts are based on contract. This makes these debts civil matters in court.

I was later yelled at by attorney's who told me that I should have acted sooner and recognized that my mohter had 'kidnapped' my children, but I don't know. I would take them over to her for a visit and when I came to pick them up at the time appointed on three occasions, she was gone...until 2:00 am on a school weekday and later was told that she had set me up in order take them from me. Because the pediatrician, the school principle and etc. fuss at me due to them being sleepy in school and etc., I stopped taking them to visit her and then she filed for grandmother visitation. the judge told me that day on friday I hd to turn my kids over to their grandmother that next day, Saturday, for 'unsupervised visits' for 4 hours, and this was to occur 'every saturday'! I freaked out [inside] but calmly told the judge 'no, I want to make an appeal', the judge told me 'no you can't'. then I told her 'okay, well I'm teling you right now, I'm not gonna do it'...Well, you know where that landed me...IN JAIL!!!...for about 45 minutes, and then I was released. My husband was freaking out, because it happened so fast, and he too was jailed right along with me. At any rate, the courts pursued me still, and eventually took our kids under other allegations and only because I got help, I was able to get back into court and prove them wrong. How can you take kids and keep them for three years without EVER GETTING PEDIATRICIAN RECORDS!!? My attorney freaked out on that court and finally all of the allegations became 'FALSE ALLEGATIONS' but after we were dragged through the court, the courts pursued us for 'CHILD SUPPORT'!

Some hard truths I'm about to reveal, so steel yourself.
a) Children are property.
b) Most people gift this property to the State by way of a birth certificate only to have the child gifted back to them.
c) The State is the superior guardian of the children.

Our wages were garnished for years because my mother filed for 'foster care' while she had our kids and we had to pay it back to the courts, and there was no attorney that would help us to get back into the courts to get restitution. Okay so I say based on my experience, the courts are set up as the house that always wins, no matter what. They collect money. period. And when they are wrong, they still keep the money, and no lawyer will help a Black African American get back into courts to get restitution. The courts totally KIDNAPPED MY KIDS, charged us for it, and only because i was able to get into their courts [which cost tens of thousands of dollars] and prove them wrong, I got my kids back. The courts took 'my custody rights', and 'my parenting rights', barred me from my kids completely for three years until they sifted me like wheat and had to give them back. Because of that experience, I used all of my money to fight for my kids, and could not pay back my ohter debts and therefore, I am in debt [debtors prison] to this very day. The house always wins.

This system is unfair.

edited.

How about dumping the attorney and you do it? Think how much money you'll save.
There is a kit called Jurisdictionary that is excellent in teaching people how to become skillful pro se litigants.