Black People : CONTROVERSIAL AFRICAN PERSONALITIES...

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Isaiah, May 19, 2006.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    SAMMY DAVIS JR:

    Regarded as the greatest entertainer of all time, because he could do it all, sing, dance, act, was an impressionist, and so on... Contributed liberally of his income to Black Liberation movements like the Panthers, and SNCC, as well as to the Civil Rights Movement of Dr. King... Married a White woman(May Britt), and then hugged Tricky **** Nixon... Enemy to African Americans despite his many contributions to our struggle...

    PAUL ROBESON:

    Another multi-talented African man, who could sing, and act, but was a renowned scholar athlete at Rutgers University, and a powerful orator. Married a white woman, and adopted Socialism as his political philosophy... Enemy to African Americans despite his many contributions to our struggle.

    OPRAH WINFREY:

    World-renowned communicator/talk-show host, billionaire philanthropist, whose popularity supercedes any person now living on the planet earth. Recently donated through her charitable organization, homes to 50 African American families hard hit by Hurricane Katrina in Mississippi, with at least 50 more families set to receive homes as well... Enemy to African Americans because she participated in the making of The Color Purple, as well as other cinema efforts... Never does enough to satisfy the hungry demands of our community, despite her best efforts...

    FREDERICK DOUGLASS:

    Well-known self-taught, escaped slave, abolitionist, diplomat, newspaper editor, and freedom fighter... Enemy to African people because he married a white woman...


    BOOKER T. WASHINGTON:

    A freedman who rose to great institutional power, built Tuskeegee University, and engaged in monumental battles with Du Bois, and the NAACP. Lives in infamy because his philosophy called upon African Americans to "cast your buckets where they are", rather than seeking integrationist equality with whites... Enemy to African Americans because many of us see his philosophy as TOMMING for the White Man...

    There are many more of these kinds of folks, and I am sure we can name some ourselves if the mood suits us... What I want to understand is why are we so quick to discredit and disown African people who've made quite powerful contributions to our struggle???

    Do you guys remember reading Malcolm's autobiography...his dalliances with White chicks??? I wonder why Malcolm escapes our wrath on this???

    Also, it seems well-known sisters who might marry a White Guy seem to glide under the radar, while brothers catch it - from Black men, as well as, Black women...

    This thread seeks to examine why a brother or sister is not entitled to mess up without being scourged from pillar to post, and banished to the scrap heap of history??? In other words, why is our community so doggoned judgemental toward our own..



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  2. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think one of the primary questions that must be asked is why are these people to be considered Africans, and did they consider themselves to be Africans? One of the first lessons in truly understanding history is knowing and respecting who people were and not trying to make them out to be who we want them to be. In other words making them stand for things they never did.
     
  3. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is why I say, let peoples actions speak for them, regardless of all the naysayers who may want to tear them down.

    Oprah is also doing a lot for the women of South Africa, paying for scores of the women there, victims in various ways of the scourge of AIDS to go on for higher education there and abroad, setting up leadership academies for the women, establishing and promoting entrepreneurialship projects for the women. She has gone on record to say she is adopting the Black women and girls of South Africa.
     
  4. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think all those historical figures Isaiah listed are immeasurably important to the "integration" movement, and all the black community is today we owe to their visions of progress!
     
  5. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hmmm, I wonder which historical figures all the African countries would give "credit" to for their condition today. I think I can safely say they wouldn't take the "credit" themselves.

    We have perfected the "Blame Game."
     
  6. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother Pan, which of these people are not of African descent???

    How does Booker T. Washington fit into your "integration" perspective???

    Why does one's private love life get factored into the African person's real contributions to his community???

    Why are we concerned about other folk's private lives in the first place??? Do we want others all up in our private affairs in that way???

    Listen brother, this issue came up with you and Karma concerning Dr. Chiekh Anta Diop, and I took no position on it because, frankly, I don't particularly dig marrying outside the group... But I realize that I cannot control what others do with their private lives, and really I don't want to, because my own life is off-limits to others on that front... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, is my policy... Frankly speaking, I, too, am a Black Nationlist, but I do not judge others harshly because they don't believe as I do... I look upon their "conscious deeds" as the source of respect for them, or the lack thereof... That is the purview Malcolm told us to take in many of his speeches, even as he waylaid these people for their integrationist stances... He knew they were fighting the same enemy as we ATTEMPT to fight...

    I say ATTEMPT because most of us Black Nationalists, truth be told, are a lot of TALK... We make rousing speeches about what others aint doing, while we do nothing less than nothing... That is correct, brother, because you cannot say you've done anything CLOSE to what Oprah did in provding housing to these 50 to 100 hundred families whose homes were destroyed by Hurricane Katrina... And once you open your mouth to critique this sister, you bring about a critique upon yourself... As long as she's doing in the absence of the rest of us doing, then we need to praise her efforts, and keep our mouths shut... At the very least, it would encourage her to do more...

    Instead, we hem and haw, and alienate those who could and can do something of some value to our community... I remember that James Brown, in the late 1960's and early 1970's, shaved off his process, bought homes in the Black community here in Queens and Augusta, brought radio stations, and allowed Africans to run them - and they did, right into the ground... These and other Africans them resorted to criticizing James for being a bad businessmen, and, I quote, "a greasy Ni$$a." It seems, brother Pan Africa, that we've got all of these STANDARDS - for other people - and none for ourselves... We need to establish standards for ourselves, and meet those standards before we launch off into critiques of others... It really makes us look bad when THEY can claim to be actually doing more than we are...



    Peace!
    isaiah
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm going by "your" primary means of identification Isaiah...culture. Culturally how are any of people these people African? What is your basis of describing them in this manner, when they didn't even describe themselves in this manner? Once you answer that question (and the contradictions it will bring with some of your latest claims) then we can continue this conversation!
     
  8. Blaklioness

    Blaklioness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Isaiah,

    If you are so concerned with folks minding their own business, then for what reason would you start this thread? Personally, I'm sick of this discussion, as I know precisely where it's headed. So, I will make this brief, how is a person going to fight an enemy in whose bed they lie?
     
  9. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother, I don't understand your question considering that the vast majority of African Americans do not consider themselves African in the truest sense of the word... I believe all of these people were/are pretty clear about their Blackness... Because You and sister Black Lioness have decided that they are not Black Folk does not make it so... Aricaness is determined by consciousness and culture... Blackness is determined in large measure by color, the narrowness of which led many African-centrists to lean toward referring to ourselves as Africans... What you two want is something easy, hard and fast, and Black and White, forgive the pun... the humna pesonality is far more complex than that...

    Sister Black Lioness, as I understand it, Chiekh Anta Diop was supposedly marreid to a white woman, and so was Harry Belafonte, James Farmer, Sidney Poitier, Louis Rawls, and others, and yet they fought the enemy... Perhaps you need to ask them how they got ovah??? Again Sister Black Lioness, I done heard and believed it all over the years, but I've come to understand that I was wrong about some people and some things... You don't put your life and career on the line for me, and then I kick you in the *** becasue I can't get past whom you are married to - as if whom you are married to is my damned business...

    I don't put these people in a box, and cast them off because they got married to someone outside of the group... Their record speaks for itself... These people aint Kobe Bryant and Charles Barkley... They've got track records, had their bodies beaten down fighting for a bunch of people who seem more concerned with the minutiae than the fight they fought... I don't understand or accept that, sister... Sorry that it makes you sick, but if you opened up your mind a piece, perhaps your head wouldn't hurt so much about it...

    BTW, brother Pan, you have still not SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN that RACE is a reality, and that is why I will have ZERO problems sticking fast to my position on it...(smile!)


    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  10. Blaklioness

    Blaklioness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Isaiah...those folks were all integrationists....they fought to have Black folks fit in. There will be a limit to how far they will go (or would have gone) if they know they will have to crush their own family members. I mean we're talking about definitions here again....what we define as white/nonblack 'supremacy'. My perception of that goes beyond the very overt definitions of yesteryear because the game has gotten significantly more covert...making it ten times more dangerous and difficult to recognize. When I heard that Belafonte referred to Powell as a house negro or something to that affect, I thought....hmmm...when did Belafonte get rid of his white wife enough to be calling someone a sellout? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps at least some of these individuals were overcompensating......sort of 'smokescreening' to avoid being labeled an enemy---even though their behavior would ultimately be no less detrimental to the race than the likes of a Powell/Rice or the common street thug? My feeling is that if a person wants to marry or mate "out", then that is their right and business to do so...but if you make such a choice, be big enough to own it and keep moving. Don't look back talking about what people owe you.
     
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