Black Spirituality Religion : Coming to terms with Myself and My views on God

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Jahari Kavi, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Being sick this week has given me the opportunity to really sit down and think about my perspective on life. I have really felt liberated this week, because for the first time ever I have informed my friends and loved ones on my outlook, when it comes to what most call "God." Below is a Facebook note that I wrote this week on my beliefs. I hope you enjoy.

    "Recently I got into an argument with an individual who misinterpreted my views of "God." I was angry at this individual, but there is a part of me that blamed myself, because I have always been quite ambiguous when it comes to my spiritual outlook on life. I have recently updated my "religious beliefs" section here on Facebook so that people may better understand my perspective. Below it is explained.

    I believe in nature and humans which are a part of nature as well. I don't worship anyone or anything. I don't pray to anyone or anything. Dichotomizing nature with some supernatural force is anti-human and falls in line with a number of Eurocentric thinkers (such as Descartes). The universe can be both a nurturing and harmful place, this we know. When we die, I do believe that we just die and there is nothing wrong with that. But our deeds both good and bad live on through future generations. The concept of forgiveness is pointless. We should focus on mistakes made and seek to fix them rather than forgive.

    As far as the origins of the universe, I feel that both science and religion have failed to answer that question with absolute certainty. It is really an impossible question to answer, at least for now it is. Too often we make the mistake of viewing time as something linear. We should be more concerned with the problems that we are dealing with today (racism,sexism,poverty,etc.), where those problems began, and how to solve those problems. I see the potential in nature (both the good and the bad) and hold in reverence the will of nature . I see a unity in nature that is divine, but not in a spooky sense. It doesn't need to be prayed to, but it does need to honored, preserved, and examined carefully.

    I am not an atheist per say. My problems with atheism is that it is still Eurocentric in it's outlook of life (from my perspective of course). For instance there are atheists who make the claim that we are more advanced now than ever before. I feel like this may be true in terms of white people (or maybe not so). However I cannot say life as a whole is better now than ever before for African people and other Indigenous people prior to European contact. My ancestors didn't go around the planet spreading destruction in the name of God, Science, or anything else. White people did that (and are doing that). That perspective is a white cultural projection of their history and world view on to others. That is racist at it's very core. Prior to colonization life in Africa was actually pretty good from the evidence that we have discovered. Not perfect, but still pretty good. There are things western scientists are discovering now that have been known for hundreds and thousands of years by the indigenous people of this planet. I don't look at time in a flat linear fashion like most atheists. I also reject the notion that once science proves it that it is factual. Science is capable of errors and personal/cultural biases. To say such a thing you are really no different than the Christian who says the Bible is the 100% truth. Science in the wrong hands has been proven to be as deadly as Religion over time. This we also know to be true. I also have an intuitive and emotional side. Belief is a part of life. We all believe and base our beliefs on the reality that we perceive through our senses. Feeling can be a way of knowing. And just because me and/or my ancestors "feel" to know does not mean that we do not use reason or logic.

    I hope this better explains my views. Peace."

    Jahari
     
  2. LMagere

    LMagere Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And this is where you lost me completely.

    What histories are you reading or know about? Life was not pretty good for Africans compared to what it is now. You don't believe from what I have read here in superstition and witch doctor cures as we ones did.

    Atheism as far as I know means you don't believe in god, were you go from there is up to you. I don't see how you make the connection to Eurocentric in its outlook or what that means really. Some times when I read posts on here I get the feeling there is a hate, fare or distrust of white people. It is like treating white people like gods or demons with some kind of supernatural power.

    As far as I know most Atheists are secular humanist and their ideas are global. Yes we are more advanced then we ever were and it’s not an atheist point of view. You’re in another state yet we are communicating and my phone does more than the first computer I bought in collage.

    White people are humans just like we are and their past is as checkered as our own. Yes we may not have gone around the world spreading destruction, but it was not because we had the means yet did not want to. They are Africans today spreading destruction and they are responsible as Africans for what they are doing. It is clear that the Africans that could did and those that could not where very busy doing some nasty things to each other.

    There is no need to romanticize African history we only need to learn from it. We know how it went the first time around (civilizations where not stable so the fell, we were enslaved etc.). I for one am not willing to go back to such a venerable state.

    White people have made advances, Asians have made advances, Africans have made advances etc. We have also all done some terrible things as well. The advantage of being a humanist is you can take advantage of all these advances without confining yourself to one group of people.

    Yes science has been used to do some terrible things and does not have all the answers. But science is not about color or good and bad. Science is about what best describes the natural world, if a better explanations is discovered then drop the old. There is no western science or African science etc. scientists around the world are doing the same science. How do we find out the scientists that are wrong, by doing good science. More over most scientists will readily tell you that most of the time they are wrong. Science helps us know, what we do with that knowledge is up to us. So what are you rejecting??????

    Bad people do not confine themselves to a color and neither should good people. A bad idea is a bad idea no matter who comes up with it and a good idea should be for everyone.


    Pan-Africanism, Eurocentrism and the likes are archaic ideas that should be grouped together with apartheid and segregation. Of no use to anyone that cares.
     
  3. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm not romanticizing anything......I stated it was not perfect, but from research life was pretty good........I really don't have the energy to address the rest of your post this evening............
     
  4. LMagere

    LMagere Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And that's OK I just think its better now.
     
  5. I'm Becoming Me

    I'm Becoming Me Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We all have the right to our personal views of God/Universe, and Science, etc, etc or the lack thereof.

    Whatever we call it and however we see it needs no approval or acceptance from anyone; we all are here on earth to have our own personal experiences, revelations, and journeys that are all unique experiences that can't be expressed or traveled by any other than ourselves

    In the process of "Becoming and Discovering" who we authentically are, we all can expect to be misunderstood and criticized when we make the decision to not allow the dogma, doctrine, and traditions of men to bully us into smothering our God given conscience and right to be critical and free thinkers for ourselves.

    My views (or lack thereof) are not suppose to be identical to anyone else's views on this earth, even though we all share some common beliefs and common experiences; this is true of the personal walk I've walked and my lot in life, and it is equally the same when it comes to my personal views about life and about my walk in life.
     
  6. Gorilla

    Gorilla Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think the problem here is that you're attributing beliefs to atheism that are not actually atheism. You're also blaming how people use technological advances on science, which in itself has no goals beyond understanding (and making predictions about) things.

    You've poisoned your own well and it's understandable considering how emotionally loaded a word like atheism is. It was something, along with heresy and apostasy, that got you a visit from some brutal people with the authority to torture and kill individuals. Since then it's always been associated with something bad even after so much social progress on this issue in much of the world.
     
  7. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I don't view Atheism as bad...I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of Atheists...Most people think I am an Atheist...LOL.....My point in bringing up those issues is that these are arguments that I've heard Atheists bring up before. Saying that they are "not actually atheism" is like saying people who think homosexuality is a sin are not Christians. Do all Atheists think one way? No...of course not. Just like all Christians don't think homosexuals are going to burn for eternity. However I have noticed that certain patterns of thought such as the ones I've mentioned are often brought up by Atheists. Peace.
     
  8. I'm Becoming Me

    I'm Becoming Me Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I totally agree. ;)

    I am so far from being an atheist and I consider myself to be a very spiritual woman, but like you, I often agree with atheists when it comes to many things regarding fundamentalism and religion for the most part.

    On one hand atheists and I are on two different pages altogether, yet on the other hand we think totally alike.
     
  9. Gorilla

    Gorilla Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I can see what you mean about what's brought up in discussions of religion, but the second part of your argument doesn't extend well to atheism. Christians are constantly concerned with who is "really" a Christian because its tenets and beliefs include a lot more than atheism does that's really open to a ton more interpretation. You could argue anything is, but the surface area on atheism's framework is significantly smaller and can be summed up in a single sentence: it's the lack of belief in deities. That's it. It doesn't tell you what they believe. So, it's fine to have all those views you're free to disagree with or agree with. It's fine to be a member of other religion or philosophical schools of thought that are compatible with the believe that there are no deities (or in some cases literally no personal gods).

    That's the difference. This isn't about insisting that all atheists think a like or came to their disbelief the same way. I was pointing out that some of those beliefs you disagree with that are brought up by people who are atheist, aren't actually a part of atheism. It means there's an opportunity for a person to still be an atheist, and not have the same disbelief, belief, or opinions of other atheists you don't agree with. In my opinion, it makes for a lot of fertile ground for interesting thoughts, discussions, and debates among disbelievers.
     
  10. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Personally I think -isms are poisons no matter what form they take. One should be a free thinker above all things else. I abhor atheism, vegetarianism, veganism, religious-ism, all isms because they come with ideology and ideology is prison. Well I actually love Blackbirdism and we are accepting new fools ah I mean converts. As the leader of the assasins once said "Nothing is true; all is permissible." My thoughts are full of garbage and nonsense but they are mine. I am a free man.
     
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