Black People : Closing the Racial Divide

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by NNQueen, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Is crossing the great racial divide as easy as some of us here suggest we do, particularly when it comes to relationships?

    Relative to Black women who struggle when it comes to Black men that date or marry outside their race, some Black women suggest and strongly recommend that these Black women should just get over it and stop worrying about what Black men do and follow suit. When it comes to racism overall, will these issues just go away if we all intermarry people from other races?

    When it comes to some of our perceptions of racism and how it's been practiced and is practiced yet today, some members suggest that we are paranoid if we believe that much of the reason for our condition is due to white people's fear and hatred of us. These members believe that we should take responsibility for our own condition and stop whining about "The man!"

    Is racism real or imagined?

    Are interracial relationships a form of assimilation with the dominant (white) culture or a demonstration of some people's ability to overcome issues of racism?

    If a person acknowledges that racism is still being practiced in the world, how can you marry into the race that is responsible for practicing racism? Is it really all about individualism and nothing more than that?

    Should Black people not view racism as a class issue, but view it on an individual basis? For example, your husband/wife may be white and by all accounts, a "good" person. But they come from a family that was directly responsible for enslaving Africans and profiting from their free labor. When you're in bed at night and the lights are out, that doesn't matter? You have children together and they learn this and look at their parents with wonder and confusion? What do you say to them?

    How can Black people come here and heavily engage in discussions about race to the tune of agreeing that racism is a big issue for Blacks, but at the same time suggest that when it comes to relationships, race shouldn't be an issue? What part of the brain is or isn't working here? What do you say to your white lover..."I love you and am willing to have your children, but I don't like your people"? Or is there a different conversation that my brain can't fathom?

    Help me to understand this dichotomy.

    Peace,
    Queenie :spinstar:
     
  2. queentswana

    queentswana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I sure hope you got a lot of blank paper, because you just set off a :bomb: ...for real. Oh my God, what a good question. You have no idea how I wanted to really blow up on the last thread about relationships between different races, but I chose to keep a zipper on it...but NNQ you're forcing my hand and I will not hold my feelings back this time. Of course I will be respectful but I believe in calling a spade... a "SPADE"...I will return later to give my reply.
    Again, that's a very good question you asked!
     
  3. PurpleMoons

    PurpleMoons Administrator STAFF

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    I've crossed this thread quite a few times wanting to add my voice. Finally, I've decided to give in. Personally I never dated anyone outside of my race unless some may call Dominican outside of my race. I have treaded lightly on the thought a time or two of dating outside of my race. However, I could not bring myself to do so. No No No! I am aware of the history of abuse that was bestowe upon my people and I do resent all that has been done and all that is still being done to us. Everytime my White lover/husband would say something that sounded even close to a racial remark, It would send my blood pumping acid thoughts and daggerd words of destructions. I know this, And no show of gift or apologize could he offer me to reconcile my hurt feelings of the thought of my Ancestors blood oozing out of it's body as the very life of it was robbed, While family and babies watched. However, I can befriend a white person and I have. But the thought of, if a war was to rise between the two, Where would her loyality lye? In my mind, It would be with her own, so my freindship with her/him would only be superficial. Some other thoughts that run through my mind is how many white looking people in the world actually are black. We know how our Ancestors have been raped by white men. We know that some of our White looking ancestors lived their life as White. My point is, How many white looking people out here are actually Black and don't even know it because it was hidden from them? Example, The white couple who gave birth to a Black child. I don't remember which, if the mother or the father of the child was a white looking black, But one of them was indeed Black. So, To some point, should we close the racial divide when dealing with relationships? *sigh* I guess it will always depended on the individual and not the whole. I know that I could'nt handle any racial remarks that my significant other, or the family and friends of his make without feeling some type of resentment toward him. That's just my personal opinion. I can't and never will be able to forget!
     
  4. vj57

    vj57 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We Need to Focus on NOW & the FUTURE

    I am aware of our history, but this is 2004 and it's time to move on. We are blessed that in the US today there is no slavery like what our ancestors dealt with.

    I don't dwell on it to the point of hatred. But the God I worship is all about love and it was through Him that slavery ended in the US. He had a hand in this.

    We also must stop hollering about our past when others (not black) suffered at the hands of others. Christians were thrown in the arena to be eaten by lions. Jews suffered horrible deaths in the 1930s and 1940s. And Muslims in Africa are raping and enslaving other Africans. And people of all races are suffering in some form.

    I know that a lot of white people are racists. Anyone can be a racist. If you hate a person based on their race, you are a racist.

    Instead of blacks taking on the everlasting "victim" attitude, we should call ourselves "victors". We can live anywhere or work anywhere. (Well, at least I subscribe to that).

    There will always be animosity between people because the fight is not against flesh and blood. We have a wicked foe named satan who wants to keep racism and strife alive.
     
  5. vj57

    vj57 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The point is that if I was married to a white man, he didn't enslave my ancestors. He does not have to answer for what great-great-great grandfather did. And this is what angers a lot of white people and rightfully so. Why should they be held liable for what somebody else did in the past? Why do we continually bring it up as if we are still enslaved today? Because emotionally, many black people are taking on a slave mentality.

    If a black woman and white man have children together, they are CHILDREN....period. Or as the late Arthur Ashe put it - CITIZENS OF THE WORLD.

    I view people as God views them - His creations - human. He is no respecter of person. And those who are the oppressors, in His time, He will handle them. Those white ancestors got to answer to Him for their wrong just as we today are accountable for our wrongs.

    I know that it's engraved in the minds of many white people that they are superior to everyone else. But that's not the way I see them. I'm not inferior to them by any means. Also, I treat them no better or worse than black people. You give me respect, you will get it back in return.

    We need to stop being the victims. Slavery days are ended! We are conquerors in Christ Jesus. No white person prevented me from having good jobs and decent housing. I wanted it and God gave it to me.

    I tell this to black people all the time - God gives the best and no white man can take it from you. If we TRUST in him, we will eat the good of the land and won't have to live in shabby homes and be in lack. But if we keep saying, "The white man don't want me to have this", we won't get it. The negative words that we speak makes us stay in those shabby homes or keeps us on welfare and unemployed. And we have nobody to blame but ourselves. The stupid idea that the FBI or CIA introduced drugs to South Central for the reason why a lot of blacks are strung out on drugs - nobody forces you to mess with crack - that is YOUR decision.

    Nobody forces a black person to drop out of school - that is a choice.

    Just because, for example (and this is not true) all my siblings are on crack doesn't mean that I have to be a crackhead too. I knew a family where the women were all prostitutes, but the oldest girl stayed away from them, left home and only came back for funerals. Her family was too far gone and she didn't like what they were doing. Had she hung with them, she would had been in the same thing.

    White people are just people. Nothing for me to bow to them for. I don't care for those who are racists - I don't have to have them in my home or need them for anything.

    I was asked years ago what did my family think about me dating a white man. I said that I didn't care what they thought and wouldn't stop dating him because they didn't like it. And yes, they brought up his ancestry, to which I said, "Well, I'm not a slave today and he is not anyone's master, except for his dog."

    I see how some blacks refer to white man as "massa". Why do they do that? No white man will ever hear me call or refer to him as "massa". We need to stop this dumb slave talk - we are free people.

    And why do we call black people who work hard and have good jobs or live in a nice home "sell-outs"? Is is ok for us to be dumb and live in drug infested neighborhoods with all the trash and broken glass?

    To quote Rodney King: Can't we ALL just get along?"
     
  6. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes, when you people stop worrying about hurting African-Americans. No one is asking for shyte from you people... Just let Us do Our thing, and when it is good, don't try to come in a steal it and claim it as yours; and let Us deal with Our problems...and NO One is saying stop thinking the way that you people do--- I see that thinking as a boon for US.


    [I]AND THIS LITTLE DIATRIBE IS GOOD FOR US TO STUDY... THE HEINOUSNESS PERSISTS. WE KNOW THAT MANY COLLABORATORS ARE IN FACT RUNNING AROUND IN BLACKFACE (THAT IS OK THEY ARE MARGINAL HUMAN-BEINGS AFRAID OF THEIR OWN SHADOWS). WE CANNOT GET OFF OF OUR MISSION.
    ERADICATE WHITE SUPREMIST THOUGHTS FROM OUR MINDS, OR BETTER YET ERADICATE WHITE SUPREMISTS
    [/I].



    This whole diatribe is a mismash of stereotypical' White Supremist hogwash.

    Queen, your question is a good one. Your premise is sound; and the only way to answer is to say: I don't believe that love has a color. I do believe that my perseptions about loving White is stereotypical. When I see an African-American man with a White woman(man); My thought processes is that He is actively choosing such a person to make himself feel better; and that in such a relationship he has a very very great chance of finding some kind of TROUBLE WITH SUCH (and a big percent of that trouble is he will find himself affiliated with the Criminal Justice System); You know I have stories, if you want to hear them I can give examples of what I mean. So, yes, my tendency is that the Black Male is WEAK, and really of No USE.

    When I see an African-American female with a White man(woman). I still see a Sister. I see her as someone who has been hurt by AA men. I see her as choosing this person because they are offering her something better like Respect, or she is being cherished, or something like that. It is not often that I see her as WEAK. A good example of this has to be Halle Berry ... hey, she says that she is a sister, and who am I to say she cannot be who she wants to be. Halle has been dogged, by Black men (I don't know what David Justice goes as); she has been abused by Black men (remember she cannot hear out of one ear after a severe beating). Halle is going to go White. Look at Whoopi Goldberg?

    You pointed out the conflict. I had not seen it. I have to think more on it.
     
  7. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You are right Happy....this is extremely stereotypical, and it is a double standard that turns a lot of black men off (myself included, even though I have never dated outside my race). Why is the Black Man always wrong when he decides to date a white woman, yet the Black Woman is always justified when she decides to date a white man? The example you gave of Halle Berry is an excellent one, because it reveals the error of this type of thinking. Halle is a victim of her own bad choices in men. She has been abused by men who happened to be black, not by men who abused her because they were black. If she can not realize the difference she will forever be doomed to choose bad male partners, regardless of race. The same goes for all women who feel this way.

    Many black men who date outside their race feel that black women appreciate the wrong thing in men: That they go for style over substance. I have heard many tales of honest, hard working, law-abiding, young black college students, who had no money and as a result were passed over by sistas who were looking for the here & now (the thugs with hot cars & money). While sistas were overlooking them, white women weren't so that is what the brothers started dating. Men appreciate loyalty....a woman who interested in him while he doesn't have much (it is an indication that she loves him as a person, not for what he has). In other words, these brothers have been dogged by sistas and are also looking to be treated with respect. Why should a Black Man be viewed as weak for seeking this respect in a white person, but a Black Woman be celebrated for her courage in doing the same?

    Double standards like these keep us divided!!
     
  8. Emeka

    Emeka Banned MEMBER

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    Thank you Pan. This is the problem I also have with those Black females who advocate interracial coupling…so long as it's a White man/Black woman relationship (people like Abisha and Morenaseis, spring to mind). The crux of happy’s argument is that Black men are “WEAK, and really of No USE” and that’s why they seek White females. But Black women are distressed victims who have been “hurt” by Black men. Therefore, it’s ok for a Black woman to seek persons of other races “because they are offering her something better.” Can you believe this b.s?!!! This sounds VERY similar to the pathetic excuses many of those “WEAK” Black men make, when trying to justify their preference for White females (so what does that say about you, happy?). Please stop the hypocrisy, so we can get down to discussing this VERY serious problem of integration, which has devastated and continues to destroy Black people till today. Thanx.
     
  9. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Maybe the only people who can understand my questions are those who are involved in interracial relationships yet still consider themselves to be strong advocates of Black people.

    Is it possible that a person can be an outspoken supporter of the rights and freedom of Black people, acknowledge that racism is practiced in America and around the globe, be an advocate for civil rights, equal opportunity and nondiscrimination and also be a Black person married to a white person (man or woman)?

    If so, would you say that this person has reconciled the issue of racism to the degree that race is not an issue but has become a superficial construct that doesn't matter regardless of its prominence? Has this person risen to a higher state of consciousness where the person you love doesn't matter even when the issues of race are still prevalent and you must continue to deal with it? Can the person you "fall in love with" (it's a choice because we don't love by accident) either enhance or compromise your philosophical or political views? Can Black/White people truly be "soul mates"? When you dream, do you dream in black and white or do you dream in color?

    Queenie :spinstar:
     
  10. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It is not a double standard. It is the way that I see it. I didn't say that my views were right---I am saying what I have a tendency to do. I'm saying what I "stereotypically feel" at times...not all the time; but I would be lying if I said that this is not my thoughts MOST times, because they are. To be even more honest, I think that there is something going on in this society to emasculate the African-American man; and the AA man is a full partner in this. You are correct PA, Halle does make some bad chices. I didn't say that all AA men do such; c'mon. I was stating that because the bad apples she has been with have dogged her were AA men; and she has said enough times without giving his name the guy who beat her hearing out of her was AA too.

    What you said about what has been told you; I have heard a million times over... from AA men and women who date White folk... and I don't believe it, most times. I think that it is a convenient cop out; sometimes I think that it is a lie. Especially at those times when the info is unsolicited. How many times does a brother or sister come to you saying that and you gave them no reason to tell you such? It has happened to me; and that just bring up more red lights. How many times have those of Us in interracial relationships come in here and asked what is wrong with it? Okay, now, do You PA ask yourself, why would someone "in love" have to ask how "you" feel about it? Why? What is wrong?

    It is your premise that Black Women and Men are divided. I don't feel that.
    I think this is another cop out to finding each other. I was trying to explain to Queen that from my perspective I didn't know what to think since my view of the relationships are warped in such a way. I think that I am down with the facts of Racism and all it's cousins that befall US; and at the same time, whether I agree or not with IR relationships, ultimately I feel that such is the business of the persons involved?

    Does IR relationships stifle Our struggle? Within the context of an IR relationship does one have to give up their Blackness? Another example of this is Charles Barkley who speaks much to helping the Black Community, and getting things started in his hometown for the Black Community. So, is this a social dichotomy?

    PA would you rather I lie to you and on these boards? I won't do that. I admit that my thinking is stereotypical--- I said that myself; I'm just stating that this is how my mind process the info when I see it.
     
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