Black Spirituality Religion : Children born through weird science

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by karmashines, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    This question is posed for anyone possessing some form of a spiritual/religious belief. I am particularly interested in opinions of Christians and Muslims, whose religions involve a well-defined set of rules and dogma.

    There is no doubt that reproductive science is going in scary and weird directions. Just a moment ago, I perused a thread talking about male pregnancy. Before that, I read an article about how cloning would affect African Americans. Science is getting so weird that artificial insemination and surrogate motherhood don't even seem that unusual!

    But, nonetheless, what are the spiritual consequences of humans creating life through such off-the-wall means? Do you believe a cloned child, or a child born from a man, or whatever else would have a human spirit? How would society treat these kids? Would you embrace a cloned child as a human spirit, or would you be fearful it was something else?
     
  2. Moorfius

    Moorfius Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Man+Woman=Children.

    Hotep

    There are Foolish and then there are more Foolish ways to divert attintion from the Real State of Things going on today. Who cares if a Fool wants to do something "Un-Natural" and claim it is Science??? For those that know, so-called cloning is nothing new. This process of selective breeding has been going on for at least (6,000) years. "Let Us Make, not Create but Make Man"??
    Who is doing the Make-ing and who are the "Us"? And who is the Us talking too??
    Then....all of a sudden there is this man, by him self, a rib is taken from his side and a mate (White) woman is "Cloned" from the White-Man's Rib. Remember: Much later on Ham the son of Lot was cursed and made Black. So now Black is a curse?? So once agin This so-called first man was White and his cloned woman was White also, Right???
    By now my dear Afrikan People, in the twenty first century,..there can't posibly be any one who still believes this story,..or is there??
    Exploring why a male should, could or would or can have a child is the question. (1) How did the sperm+egg get into the man's body? (2) Ware does this so-called child live in the man's body sents he has no womb? (3) When time to give so-called birth, how will this take place, from what "Opening" will this so-called child come into the world? (4) Now will this man start to lactate or give Milk so the so-called baby can eat?? (5) What is the point anyway???
    Abnormaly wasting our time giveing our valuable attentin to Crazy (Cacasin) Science, Western so-called Science. Question: Has the common Cold been cured yet?
    Has there been a cure found for AID's yet? Has there been a cure for Cancer found yet? Has "White Folk Stop promoting White Supremicy yet?????
    And now they tell us a man can have a baby. What sort of Man will want to do such a Thing when men are not made for this Divine Mission, the Holy Domain of the Woman. We must study Deep and not allow the Enemy to Waste any more of Our Time with his Foolish Ideas, Brothers and Sisters.
    And due to the fact that women out number men any way,...why does a man think of such "Madness" and then follow through with it??? Answer: The fool has lost "His" mind.

    Ase`
     
  3. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    True indeed. This is the only thing that garners any sort of examination here. What the white man (and ONLY him) does is not a bearing upon any other spiritual beliefs, but a bearing on why he does the things he does.

    Look into his nature, and you will find your answer.

    PEACE
     
  4. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sam & Moor

    Peace...


    True indeed. This is the only thing that garners any sort of examination here. What the white man (and ONLY him) does is not a bearing upon any other spiritual beliefs, but a bearing on why he does the things he does.

    But why is it most of what black people believe concerning meditation, spirituality, astral-travel, and the theories of re-incarnation and Atlantis all seem to come FROM white sources (books, lectures, ect..)

    I don't remember reading any of this in our history (as black Americans) until AFTER white New Agers started publishing books on these things THEN they started taking root in our commmunity as part of "our religion".

    Infact, few black people in the Americas (North or South) knew anything about ancient Egypt until some maverick white authors started publishing findings and research...THEN we got curious and about our past.


    What else of our history and science are we waiting on white people to find for us?

    When will we start doing our own research and developing our own sciences?
     
  5. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    I can't speak for other "black people", but this black person NEVER takes the word of any white man, and always seeks to go to a Black or native source on a subject.

    Regarding the Buddhists, I always seek the wisdom of a Buddhist (preferrably a Tibetan one)........Regarding Native Americans, I always seek the wisdom of a Native American.........Regarding the Kemetians, I always seek the wisdom of an African or Nubian.

    It's always best to hear it from the source.

    The only reason I think our people go to white people, is because whites set themselves up as the all-knowing authorities on these subjects, and conceal the fact that there are people native to these cultures who are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, for those who wish to hear what they have to say.

    That's truly to bad to hear; I made every effort to journey to our Mother Land and learn this for myself.

    But unfortunately you're right though........However, I do think that those white new-agers served to spark the light in many of us to seek the truth for ourselves.

    That's only partially true.......As I stated for me, I was always surrounded by Africans and others growing up, who were always striving to educate Blacks in the West about their culture.......

    It was us that did not wish to listen.

    And as you stated, we only perked our ears when white folks started talking.

    But we all know what sort of tongue he speaks with. :slobber:

    AMEEN, my brethren.


    True indeed......The longer that we procrastinate, the more they will continue to pervert our Legacy and birth right.

    PEACE
     
  6. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Karma

    This question is posed for anyone possessing some form of a spiritual/religious belief. I am particularly interested in opinions of Christians and Muslims, whose religions involve a well-defined set of rules and dogma.

    There is no doubt that reproductive science is going in scary and weird directions. Just a moment ago, I perused a thread talking about male pregnancy. Before that, I read an article about how cloning would affect African Americans. Science is getting so weird that artificial insemination and surrogate motherhood don't even seem that unusual!

    But, nonetheless, what are the spiritual consequences of humans creating life through such off-the-wall means? Do you believe a cloned child, or a child born from a man, or whatever else would have a human spirit? How would society treat these kids? Would you embrace a cloned child as a human spirit, or would you be fearful it was something else?


    This is a good question...


    If you had asked should humans be cloned or born of test tubes, I would have easily answered...YES.

    But to ask do the results of such projects actually have souls?

    I don't know.

    I suppose it would depend on how much they progress in life.
    If they make it past embryo stage into an actuall breathing and functioning being that can think and ration...ofcourse they have souls.

    If they remain just blobs and globs...then I wouldn't think so.



    It's really not that hard for me, all humans have souls regardless as to how they got here.
    Adam the first man was born outside of a womb and he had a soul.
     
  7. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Hmm... never thought about it that way. That is true that Adam and Eve (if you believe in that) were not born in the conventional manner humans are today. And technically, Eve would've been the first clone. :D But then some would argue that God was directly involved in that, and it wouldn't be the same as a people being born through human-controlled cloning.

    Nevertheless, I tend to agree with your viewpoint. I do think that should a human be cloned God would still put a human spirit in the body. I fear that the person would suffer more physically, (as we don't know what cloning will do to a person's body), than spiritually.
     
  8. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I fear that the person would suffer more physically, (as we don't know what cloning will do to a person's body), than spiritually.

    I often thought about how it would feel to be a clone.

    But I suppose to THEM...it would feel normal and they would be used to it, sort of like people who are born blind or deaf.


    Now supposed we had the ability to just breed thousands of clones of all races just to supply organs for those in need.

    I wouldn't be against it.


    The question is, obviously there would be some physical pain from the operations to remove their organs, but if they knew this was thier only purpose in life....would there be any mental pain, anger, depresssion, or "why me" complaints?
     
  9. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The war

    There is a war going on within all of us. It started in Genesis when man chose woman rather than to obey God. In man's heart was born the rebellious nature of man. God cast of out of the Garden and give them coats of flesh for the remission of sin. We have two selves. We have the flesh self that is our first born conscienceness. Our flesh self was designed to survive and preserve itself but it doesn't know why. Our flesh self seeks pleasure. It does this so much so that the desire for pleasure overshadows the will to preserve itself. Our second born conscienceness is the spirit. When the spirit is quickened the flesh is subdued into the subconscience primately becoming an instrument of the spirit. The flesh knows this therefore it does whatever it can to keep the spirit from awaking. The flesh has figured out a way to pleasure itself without dying. This process is called cloning. More important that cloning a whole person is cloning body parts. This is a reality. Image if you had a bad heart. With today technology you could clone a new perfectly good heart. No waiting for a donor or matching blood types. As technology grows so does the cloning process. We would eventually stop or reverse the aging process. We could make it man live forever. There will be a society of clones one day with great power that will attempt the live forever. Also though we may be able to clone flesh or even whole people it still take God to endow that clone with a soul. So essentially cloning is nothing more than a way around the reproductive system.


    Peace.....
     
  10. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I don't know all, but I know the Father does. He'd tell His people what's to be known if ever we were in a situation like that, but what a situation that'd be. I do believe, of course, all teachings we've learned beforehand still applies, such as extending mercy and compassion where we can.

    Whatever measurement we mete out...

    I mean, things today are far stranger than ever they were in the past, and the Most High could have just left us as "strange" children turned away for our imperfection, inside and out! But the Most High looked deeper than we often do, and saw a people still wanting to follow His laws, commands, and holy works. So He sent His Son to be sacrificed for the sins we couldn't cleanse on our owns, taking the weight of the world upon His shoulders, and He was resurrected to a greater life, eternal, which is promised to all faithful and believing of His truth.
     
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